Contraception

[patricius79]

A few questions:

Is contraception really wrong, as the Catholic Church has always taught, with the reformers and the Protestant denominations until recent decades?

What was Onan's sin?

What is the point of having sex?

 

[St_Worm2]

A few questions:

Is contraception really wrong, as the Catholic Church has always taught, with the reformers and the Protestant denominations until recent decades?

From what I understand of the RCC, for you, as a Roman Catholic, yes. The Church has spoken, the matter is settled.

What was Onan's sin?

Selfishness/Greed - he wanted his dead brother's inheritance (a double-portion for the firstborn) and position of leadership in the family for himself, so he made sure he didn't get Tamar pregnant. If Tamar had a child, he would have received the position and inheritance instead of his uncle (and biological father) Onan.

Also, he took advantage of the pleasurable side of the Levirate marriage (see Deut 25:5-10) while refusing to abide by his obligation to Tamar in giving her children.

What is the point of having sex?

According to the CCC

III. THE LOVE OF HUSBAND AND WIFE

2362 "The acts in marriage by which the intimate and chaste union of the spouses takes place are noble and honorable; the truly human performance of these acts fosters the self-giving they signify and enriches the spouses in joy and gratitude."145 Sexuality is a source of joy and pleasure:

The Creator himself . . . established that in the [generative] function, spouses should experience pleasure and enjoyment of body and spirit. Therefore, the spouses do nothing evil in seeking this pleasure and enjoyment. They accept what the Creator has intended for them. At the same time, spouses should know how to keep themselves within the limits of just moderation.146
​

2363 The spouses' union achieves the twofold end of marriage: the good of the spouses themselves and the transmission of life. These two meanings or values of marriage cannot be separated without altering the couple's spiritual life and compromising the goods of marriage and the future of the family. The conjugal love of man and woman thus stands under the twofold obligation of fidelity and fecundity.

 

[patricius79]

From what I understand of the RCC, for you, as a Roman Catholic, yes. The Church has spoken, the matter is settled.



Selfishness/Greed - he wanted his dead brother's inheritance (a double-portion for the firstborn) and position of leadership in the family for himself, so he made sure he didn't get Tamar pregnant. If Tamar had a child, he would have received the position and inheritance instead of his uncle (and biological father) Onan.

Also, he took advantage of the pleasurable side of the Levirate marriage (see Deut 25:5-10) while refusing to abide by his obligation to Tamar in giving her children.



According to the CCC

III. THE LOVE OF HUSBAND AND WIFE

2362 "The acts in marriage by which the intimate and chaste union of the spouses takes place are noble and honorable; the truly human performance of these acts fosters the self-giving they signify and enriches the spouses in joy and gratitude."145 Sexuality is a source of joy and pleasure:

The Creator himself . . . established that in the [generative] function, spouses should experience pleasure and enjoyment of body and spirit. Therefore, the spouses do nothing evil in seeking this pleasure and enjoyment. They accept what the Creator has intended for them. At the same time, spouses should know how to keep themselves within the limits of just moderation.146
​

2363 The spouses' union achieves the twofold end of marriage: the good of the spouses themselves and the transmission of life. These two meanings or values of marriage cannot be separated without altering the couple's spiritual life and compromising the goods of marriage and the future of the family. The conjugal love of man and woman thus stands under the twofold obligation of fidelity and fecundity.

it's interesting to bring up the Levirate law, since even under this law it was not punishable by death to fail to provide children for one's brother

possibly this is why the reformers held that Onan was guilty of contraception, which they held to be wrong

in regard to the purpose of sexuality you make a very good point: the Catholic Church sees the pleasure of sex as good related to the bonding and openness to new life which is the intrinsic meaning of sex

 

[dayhiker]

I personally don't see God being upset with contraception at all.

I agree, Oman was after the inheritance of his brother. His sin was lying. He acted as if he was doing the responsible thing as a brother but in reality he wasn't.

I think there are a number of reasons for sex. From expressing love to a wife, having children to health reasons and more.

 

[St_Worm2]

it's interesting to bring up the Levirate law, since even under this law it was not punishable by death to fail to provide children for one's brother

possibly this is why the reformers held that Onan was guilty of contraception, which they held to be wrong

in regard to the purpose of sexuality you make a very good point: the Catholic Church sees the pleasure of sex as good related to the bonding and openness to new life which is the intrinsic meaning of sex

Hi Patricius, you're right, under the Jewish Levirate law, you had an out to become 'Shoeless Joe Jackson' .. , but I believe that out was intended to be used before saying "yes" to the marriage and consummating it. Like I said above, Onan wanted the "goods" while never intending to follow through with the responsibility that went with it, so God took his life. I also wonder if the penalty would have been less severe if the bride in question had been someone else than Tamar, one of the moms in the Messianic line?

As to the RCC and sexuality, it's the denomination-specific board, so I tried to answer like a good little RC would, even though I'm clearly not one .. A close friend of mine, a man I used to meet with for breakfast once a week (we were trying to help each other become better husbands, fathers and Christians), is a RC and he gave me the CCC as a gift. It has been a very handy tool to have around a number of times and has also helped me see how much of the faith conservative Protestants and conservative Catholics hold in common. Unfortunately, the 10-15% of the faith which we differ in seems hardly harmonizable at this point. Maybe someday ..

--David

 

[patricius79]

I personally don't see God being upset with contraception at all.

I agree, Oman was after the inheritance of his brother. His sin was lying. He acted as if he was doing the responsible thing as a brother but in reality he wasn't.

I think there are a number of reasons for sex. From expressing love to a wife, having children to health reasons and more.

I agree that the meaning of marital sex is the expression of love

what do you think of the views of Calvin?


"The voluntary spilling of sperm outside of intercourse between man and woman is a monstrous thing. Deliberately to withdraw from coitus in order that sperm may fall on the ground is doubly monstrous. For this is to extinguish the hope of the race and to kill before he is born the hoped-for offspring."

 

[Rhamiel]

neat thread
on a sad side note
atleast 75% of Catholics in America use contraception
I assume the number is probably higher

 

[patricius79]

yes, that is true and extremely sad:

and they are much more likely to divorce

 

[propaneman]

The big question of contraception for my wife and I was whether an egg was fertilized and lost. I do believe that life begins at conception and any contraception that allows conception to take place only to loose that life is wrong. We were carefull in the method that we chose so that if ferilization did occure we would not loose that life, but be blessed with a child God had intended for us.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Well, well, well. I see the contraception bug has spread to this board. For those who are interested in a livelier discussion of the topic, there is a thread by the same name on the General Theology board.

 

[Slaol121]

Is contraception really wrong, as the Catholic Church has always taught, with the reformers and the Protestant denominations until recent decades?

‪John Piper - What's your stance on birth control?‬‏ - YouTube

What was Onan's sin?

Onan was instructed to perpetuate his dead brother's lineage by impregnating his brother's wife. He refused to do so.

What is the point of having sex?

Sex is a gift from God.

 

[RoseGraced]

A friends told me once that orthodox Jews believe that contraception is only wrong if it "spills", so condoms are wrong but women can be on the pill. It's interesting how different people can interpret the word of God so differently!

 

[patricius79]

Onan was instructed to perpetuate his dead brother's lineage by impregnating his brother's wife. He refused to do so.


.

Hi Slaol,

does the Bible say that Onan's sin was that and not contraception?

I tried to listen to the video but found it slow, and in general I sometimes disagree with Piper's oral traditions