Contraception?

[keith99]

OK, this is becoming too much of an agree-fest.

[Devil's Advocate]

Contraception encourages people to engage in more promiscuous sex and damages the purpose of sex and relationships: to have children. Not only that, but it creates a false sense of security which could lead to an increase in transmission of STDs, as only certain types of contraception guard against them, and not all people realise this. Finally (so far), it could pose a danger to societies, as it allows people to have less children, which could lead to a dramatic loss of young people in the population, and the potential for the population decline to become irreversible. Already in many places we are beginning to feel the effects of having a much larger number of elderly people in relation to young workers, and the continued use of contraception will only make this worse.

[/Devil's Advocate]

That's better. If you're lucky I might even try to get some evidence to support that, if any exists. Probably not for the first point, because that's just generic sex-related argument #1.

So let's limit contraception to those who understand it!

Oops, to a degree that is what is happening already. Those to stupid or ignorant to understand contraception seem to be outbreeding those who do understand it.

 

[Drathnor]

Contraception encourages people to engage in more promiscuous sex

Wait....this is a bad thing?

 

[BrianOnEarth]

Against:
1) Condoms are an environmental hazzard.
1a) My local supermarket recycling centre does not have a bin for used condoms
1b) I have asked the lady at the drugstore counter for recycled condoms but she just gives me a blank stare.
1c) I cannot find any bio-degradable brands

2) Condoms are a health hazzard.
2a) Every year over a thousand people die of asphyxiation from using condoms as headwear
2b) Every year over 50 people are partially blinded by projectile condoms due to application difficulties in the presence of excessive lubrication

3) The contraceptive pill is a public health hazzard
3a) Oestrogen byproducts in the sewage system get recirculated into drinking water and cause men's penises to shrink and their breasts to enlarge
3b) This partially counteracts 1) by reducing the amount of rubber required to make condoms that fit

 

[PassionFruit]

Contraception encourages people to engage in more promiscuous sex and damages the purpose of sex and relationships: to have children. Not only that, but it creates a false sense of security which could lead to an increase in transmission of STDs, as only certain types of contraception guard against them, and not all people realise this. Finally (so far), it could pose a danger to societies, as it allows people to have less children, which could lead to a dramatic loss of young people in the population, and the potential for the population decline to become irreversible. Already in many places we are beginning to feel the effects of having a much larger number of elderly people in relation to young workers, and the continued use of contraception will only make this worse.

Especially contraception that's for women. Women shouldn't use the Pill, diaphragms, the shot, etc. Because they're neglecting their natural duties to give children. It's very selfish for women to control their reproduction, especially to engage in lustful sex. So women shouldn't enjoy sex without having to worry about the possibility of pregnancy. They're a buncha [wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth] for doing so.


In conclusion the only reason that women should have sex is to reproduce and they're not supposed to enjoy it.


Just playing devils advocate.

 

[JustMeSee]

OK, this is becoming too much of an agree-fest.

[Devil's Advocate]

Contraception encourages people to engage in more promiscuous sex and damages the purpose of sex and relationships: to have children. Not only that, but it creates a false sense of security which could lead to an increase in transmission of STDs, as only certain types of contraception guard against them, and not all people realise this. Finally (so far), it could pose a danger to societies, as it allows people to have less children, which could lead to a dramatic loss of young people in the population, and the potential for the population decline to become irreversible. Already in many places we are beginning to feel the effects of having a much larger number of elderly people in relation to young workers, and the continued use of contraception will only make this worse.

[/Devil's Advocate]

That's better. If you're lucky I might even try to get some evidence to support that, if any exists. Probably not for the first point, because that's just generic sex-related argument #1.

Even unsupported, that is a great basis for an argument.

 

[JustMeSee]

Against:
1) Condoms are an environmental hazzard.
1a) My local supermarket recycling centre does not have a bin for used condoms
1b) I have asked the lady at the drugstore counter for recycled condoms but she just gives me a blank stare.
1c) I cannot find any bio-degradable brands

2) Condoms are a health hazzard.
2a) Every year over a thousand people die of asphyxiation from using condoms as headwear
2b) Every year over 50 people are partially blinded by projectile condoms due to application difficulties in the presence of excessive lubrication

3) The contraceptive pill is a public health hazzard
3a) Oestrogen byproducts in the sewage system get recirculated into drinking water and cause men's penises to shrink and their breasts to enlarge
3b) This partially counteracts 1) by reducing the amount of rubber required to make condoms that fit

I love it. Great work!

 

[matthewgar]

Sadly though there is alot that think they are wrong, look at the Catholic church and conbdoms in africa, any Catholics have comments on this andtheir feelings on the churches stance?

 

[JustMeSee]

Especially contraception that's for women. Women shouldn't use the Pill, diaphragms, the shot, etc. Because they're neglecting their natural duties to give children. It's very selfish for women to control their reproduction, especially to engage in lustful sex. So women shouldn't enjoy sex without having to worry about the possibility of pregnancy. They're a buncha [wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth] for doing so.


In conclusion the only reason that women should have sex is to reproduce and they're not supposed to enjoy it.


Just playing devils advocate.

Great. At different points in time, I bet there were people that used every point in your argument.

This is my favorite: "In conclusion the only reason that women should have sex is to reproduce and they're not supposed to enjoy it".

 

[SithDoughnut]

[Devil's Advocate]

But that would only be an issue during a transitional phase. After a half dozen or so generations of contaceptive usage, I'd expect the total population to stabilize, and the proportions of young and elderly to equilibrate.

What if the population hits a birthrate at which point population recovery becomes impossible? I've forgotten what the number is. There has been a massive decrease in birth rate since the 1960s, and the fact that (as you point out) we import workers in shows us that we don't have the numbers to be self-sufficient in many ways.

And anyway, we can (as we have always done) import our younger people from other countries. Just make 'em legal workers, and make sure they and their employers pay the taxes to support our pension and health care programs.

While that helps solve our problems, it causes problems for the countries that they are leaving. Many eastern European countries had issues with finding workers after so many had emigrated to the west.

[/Devil's advocate]

 

[SithDoughnut]

[Devil's Advocate]

So let's limit contraception to those who understand it!

Oops, to a degree that is what is happening already. Those to stupid or ignorant to understand contraception seem to be outbreeding those who do understand it.

Which is a problem in itself. We don't have to limit contraception - it is naturally limited to people who know about it. That means that those people who are poorer are having more children who will be a drain on the state, and the richer are not having enough children to counter-act this (the children will gain better educations and therefore eventually pay more taxes to the state). We can't force the poor not to have children, so the sensible option is to remove contraception, which will naturally lead to an increase in births in richer families.

[/Devil's Advocate]

 

[BrianOnEarth]

In conclusion the only reason that women should have sex is to reproduce and they're not supposed to enjoy it.

Hang on, I think you are just being selfish here. There is a more important reason: women should have sex to give a man pleasure and women should pretend that they are enjoying it in order to honour him.
I'm sure that's in the Old Testament somewhere.

 

[flicka]

Everyone is for it. Even the ones who claim they are against it.

 

[lux et lex]

Hang on, I think you are just being selfish here. There is a more important reason: women should have sex to give a man pleasure and women should pretend that they are enjoying it in order to honour him.
I'm sure that's in the Old Testament somewhere.

It's constant atonement for eating that dang apple, that's why a woman MUST pleasure a man and not enjoy it at all. We've caused man so much pain and suffering, it's the LEAST we can do.

 

[BrianOnEarth]

It's constant atonement for eating that dang apple, that's why a woman MUST pleasure a man and not enjoy it at all. We've caused man so much pain and suffering, it's the LEAST we can do.

Erm...are you seeing anyone at the moment?


[Hey this has just given me a great idea for the "How would you convince an atheist that God exists?" thread]

 

[JustMeSee]

Since contraception is not 100% effective in preventing pregnancy and STD's, it gives people a false sense of security. Condoms occasionally break, especially when not used properly.

 

[Ayersy]

For. There's no valid reason to be against it.

There's a whole ton of reasons to be for it. Less abortions, less death from AIDS, less STDs, less pregnancies in families who can't support a child, etc.

A whole load of positives from it, and almost no negatives.

 

[lux et lex]

Erm...are you seeing anyone at the moment?


[Hey this has just given me a great idea for the "How would you convince an atheist that God exists?" thread]

Hahaha. I sort of am, but because I use contraception (and therefore am having premarital sex) I must have no morals, so I'll start seeing you too. There is always room for one more.

 

[PassionFruit]

Great. At different points in time, I bet there were people that used every point in your argument.

Yeah, since I've been here on CF those types of arguments have been used.

A lot of this aversion towards contraception is partly due to the fact it gives the woman control over her reproduction, and that we can have sex without having to worry about getting pregnant (provided it's used correctly and consistently).

Hang on, I think you are just being selfish here. There is a more important reason: women should have sex to give a man pleasure and women should pretend that they are enjoying it in order to honour him.
I'm sure that's in the Old Testament somewhere.

Oh that's right, because sex is what a man does to a woman. A woman is just passive, she's not doing anything else, basically the man is just masturbating into the woman.

Now of course if a woman is active or even dominant during sex, then she's just being a dirty harlot. Women aren't supposed to behave like that.

 

[BrianOnEarth]

Hahaha. I sort of am, but because I use contraception (and therefore am having premarital sex) I must have no morals, so I'll start seeing you too. There is always room for one more.

Your Christian generosity is most impressive however in spite of your pro-choice banner (d'uh) I wasn't counting on a trinity. So that's complicated the moral situation for me considerably. Especially since I don't have any of my own morals. But I came across some the other day and printed them out and I know they are around here somewhere. Not sure who they belong to but I'm not too choosy. Err I mean I am flexible...yes, that's it. This is so frustrating, happens all the time and causes me so much angst. Sorry, I'll have to get back to you as soon as I have found some clear guidance.

 

[BrianOnEarth]

Now of course if a woman is active or even dominant during sex, then she's just being a dirty harlot. Women aren't supposed to behave like that.

You girls need to stop dating uptight fundies. Hey look, you are a humanist so you get to be an equal-rights human rather than a misogynistically moulded Stepford.