Contraception

[gengwall]

An interesting commentary on abortion and contraception in the Old Testament can be found here

Also of interest may be my thread from a year ago (fuzzy, lynden, and moonless were there) which discussed the biblical position (and the gross distortions of it) on contraception. We covered some of the Christian groups (outside of the Catholics) that are against contraception (props to uber-linker christalee4), the "Onan incident" that stan referred to (post 6 in this thread), and the purpose for marriage (i.e. is "be frutiful and multiply" a command or a blessing).

 

[jayem]

It boils down to personal responsibility. I'm not exactly sure why Americans are less conscientious about birth control than, say, the Dutch. Who have about 1/2 to 2/3 our levels of unintended pregnancy and 1/2 the abortion rate we do. I strongly doubt they are any more abstinent. Maybe contraceptive access is a factor, since those nations have universal health care systems (and BCPs are OTC in much of Europe.) Maybe it's the fact that Europeans just have a more matter-of-fact attitude about sex, while we are still saddled with lingering Puritanism. Or maybe people living in smaller and densely populated areas know they have to restrict their population growth (though they face a huge problem with their exploding, non-native immigrant populations.) But the fact remains that most all western European countries don't have restrictive abortion laws, yet they uniformly have fewer abortions. Why can't we do the same?

 

[godismyabba]

I think part of the reason why (fundamentalists specifically) oppose contraception is because I believe they oppose recreational sex. That's why the abortion debate sometimes goes beyond that. Yes, it would seem logical to promote sex ed in order to decrease the need for abortions.

I could be wrong though. It just seems with birth control, it almost removes the consequences of having sex.

oh, that is so not true. My husband and I have recreational sex at every opportunity!! God wants us to have a healthy sexual relationship. Outside of marriage, there is some controversy even among Christians. My opinion, outside of marriage is wrong (yes, I've done it and regret it).

Anyhow, the Christians that I have encountered say that God won't give them more than they can handle, therefore, bc is wrong and every child is a gift from God.

Ok, I agree each child is a gift from God.... but come one people, God put us in a natural world with natural consequences. Sex = babies. My opinion is there is nothing morally wrong with controlling how many babies you have. I think its a responsibility unless you have sufficient means to support those children.

OTOH, if you are going to have sex outside of marriage, you must protect yourself with more than just bc pills or some other form of hormonal contraception. Even if you've had your tubes tied or been snipped, you must wear a condom. I don't think this promotes sex outside of marriage, because people will do what they want to do, it's just smart. There are too many diseases that can be passed. BC fails anyway, it's not fool proof.

If each person is doing their part, there would be less "unwanted" pregnancies.

 

[godismyabba]

It boils down to personal responsibility. I'm not exactly sure why Americans are less conscientious about birth control than, say, the Dutch. Who have about 1/2 to 2/3 our levels of unintended pregnancy and 1/2 the abortion rate we do. I strongly doubt they are any more abstinent. Maybe contraceptive access is a factor, since those nations have universal health care systems (and BCPs are OTC in much of Europe.) Maybe it's the fact that Europeans just have a more matter-of-fact attitude about sex, while we are still saddled with lingering Puritanism. Or maybe people living in smaller and densely populated areas know they have to restrict their population growth (though they face a huge problem with their exploding, non-native immigrant populations.) But the fact remains that most all western European countries don't have restrictive abortion laws, yet they uniformly have fewer abortions. Why can't we do the same?

good answer. I think that most people feel that if you make bc readily available, that condones sex outside of marriage. That is so ignorant. I try to talk to my kids about this issue, but in the end they are going to make their own decisions. I want them to be able to protect themselves.

 

[PassionFruit]

oh, that is so not true. My husband and I have recreational sex at every opportunity!! God wants us to have a healthy sexual relationship. Outside of marriage, there is some controversy even among Christians. My opinion, outside of marriage is wrong (yes, I've done it and regret it).

I meant recreational sex of unmarried people. There was a point in time where birth control wasn't given to unmarried single women? Now why was that?

 

[FaithLikeARock]

There really are no people who believe sperm are sacred or that they are living organisms whose life needs protection. That is hyperbolic propoganda from the pro-choice community. MoonlessNight explained very well why some oppose contraception. The belief is that God desires marriage to always be open to children.

Most fundimentalists do not oppose contraception, so it would be helpful to avoid such stereotypes.

To date, really only the Catholic Church and some small extreem sects oppose contraception. The greater part of the Christian community including all Protestant denominations have no problem generally with contraception.

Have you by chance met Renton? Belief that sperm is sacred might seem silly but that's the popular belief because people do believe this: "Well contraception keeps you from making a baby you might be supposed to make". That's just a pretty way of saying "sperm is baby too!"

 

[gengwall]

Have you by chance met Renton? Belief that sperm is sacred might seem silly but that's the popular belief because people do believe this: "Well contraception keeps you from making a baby you might be supposed to make". That's just a pretty way of saying "sperm is baby too!"

I have indeed met Renton. I don't recall him ever making this exact statement (maybe he will chime in and clarify his position). So, there may be ONE person who believes that. But not even the Catholic Church supports such a biologically illogical position.

 

[LouTheWicked]

in my opinion, no. my aunt lost her baby recently and there was a chance she would die if it was born [it died while inside her btw] and she was still willing to give birth because she would die for her child and if God wanted her to live she would.

She would die for her child even though her baby was already dead? Perhaps I sound harsh but that would only seem to be a waste of life.

One death is enough, your aunt wouldn't have to die along with it.

 

[godismyabba]

I meant recreational sex of unmarried people. There was a point in time where birth control wasn't given to unmarried single women? Now why was that?

stupidity. Like I said above, so many people think that to provide bc condones the act. They were pushing their "moral" values on other people. I would advocate that anyone wait until marriage, but we all know that is never going to stop. Morality and religion aside, it happens. Different cultures view it in different ways, but the bottom line is sex happens in marriage and out of marriage and always will. I would love to see all forms of bc over the counter, but I would also love to see abstinence given a chance (for so many different reasons, religion being the last reason).

 

[gengwall]

Just for the record, I will reiterate what has been discussed to death in other threads. The bible is clear on two points:

1. Sex is not just for procreation. Even the Catholic Church has started to bend, recognizing also the "unitive" purpose for sex within marriage. They do put forth some interesting "arguments" on how contraception is not "unitive", but at least there has been some movement on their part.

2. The bible NEVER speaks directly about contraception, pro or con. In general, that usually means its ok as long as the circumstances and motives fit with God's moral will. Since I don't believe that God decress that we MUST have kids, I see no biblical reason to inherently condemn contraception.

A quick note about Onan - of course, some try to use that as evidence that contraception is sin. The arguments are easily refuted, but I would still LOVE to have it brought up just to shoot it down once more. Any takers?

 

[PsychMJC]

I would love to see all forms of bc over the counter, but I would also love to see abstinence given a chance (for so many different reasons, religion being the last reason).

I am with you all the way up to giving abstinence a chance.. haven't we already tried that? Or did you mean you wish more people would give abstinence a chance, because teaching it sure hasn't done a whole lot..

 

[The Nihilist]

oh, that is so not true. My husband and I have recreational sex at every opportunity!! God wants us to have a healthy sexual relationship. Outside of marriage, there is some controversy even among Christians. My opinion, outside of marriage is wrong (yes, I've done it and regret it).

Anyhow, the Christians that I have encountered say that God won't give them more than they can handle, therefore, bc is wrong and every child is a gift from God.

Ok, I agree each child is a gift from God.... but come one people, God put us in a natural world with natural consequences. Sex = babies. My opinion is there is nothing morally wrong with controlling how many babies you have. I think its a responsibility unless you have sufficient means to support those children.

OTOH, if you are going to have sex outside of marriage, you must protect yourself with more than just bc pills or some other form of hormonal contraception. Even if you've had your tubes tied or been snipped, you must wear a condom. I don't think this promotes sex outside of marriage, because people will do what they want to do, it's just smart. There are too many diseases that can be passed. BC fails anyway, it's not fool proof.

If each person is doing their part, there would be less "unwanted" pregnancies.

I appreciate what you say, but please try to differentiate what you want from what God wants if you can.

 

[PsychMJC]

good answer. I think that most people feel that if you make bc readily available, that condones sex outside of marriage. That is so ignorant. I try to talk to my kids about this issue, but in the end they are going to make their own decisions. I want them to be able to protect themselves.

I hate doing a post with just a smiley.. but this gives me hope..

 

[elsbeth]

Ok, I've been here long enough to understand that quite few people have issues with abortion. For one reason or another, fair enough.

In my opinion if you are opposed to abortion you should be educated about contraception and use it in order not to get pregnant in the first place.

That's my point of view, too. But I find a lot of Christian people who also oppose contraception, and I don't get it. It seems to me to be a lot of "you made your bed- now lie in it" sentiment. It sems almost vindictive sometimes- if you do the sin (sex, presumably) you have to pay the price of having the baby. The problem with this is that it results in a lot of unwanted, uncared-for children. Surely its better not to start the children if you aren't in a position to love and care for them?

 

[gengwall]

That's my point of view, too. But I find a lot of Christian people who also oppose contraception, and I don't get it. It seems to me to be a lot of "you made your bed- now lie in it" sentiment. It sems almost vindictive sometimes- if you do the sin (sex, presumably) you have to pay the price of having the baby. The problem with this is that it results in a lot of unwanted, uncared-for children. Surely its better not to start the children if you aren't in a position to love and care for them?

BUt do these people have the same opinion about contraception inside of marriage? The premise here is that some Christians are totally against contraception, when in reality, they are only against extra-marital sex. They do not view contraception as inherently wrong, but only wrong when used in violation of God's moral will. Please clarify which camp the Christians you know are in.

 

[elsbeth]

BUt do these people have the same opinion about contraception inside of marriage? The premise here is that some Christians are totally against contraception, when in reality, they are only against extra-marital sex. They do not view contraception as inherently wrong, but only wrong when used in violation of God's moral will. Please clarify which camp the Christians you know are in.

I know some of both. The "no contraception any way, by anybody" ones tend to be so strict on other issues, and so fundamentalist, that I don't have much contact with them. The vindictive attitude I mentioned is more with those who disapprove of the unmarried sex. Those are the ones who really bother me. If they care so much about the children who are aborted then I would think that they would find it better if the children weren't started in the first place, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

 

[gengwall]

I know some of both. The "no contraception any way, by anybody" ones tend to be so strict on other issues, and so fundamentalist, that I don't have much contact with them. The vindictive attitude I mentioned is more with those who disapprove of the unmarried sex. Those are the ones who really bother me. If they care so much about the children who are aborted then I would think that they would find it better if the children weren't started in the first place, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

It is a real crisis for many Chrisitans. I believe they naively think that if contraception (at least for unmarrieds) was forbidden and abortion outlawed, then people would just stop having extra-marital sex. I agree that it seems to be contradictory logic but they believe, incorrectly, that contraception promotes sex.

 

[MoonlessNight]

Then just what are those means? Contraception plays a huge role in reducing abortions. I mean less pregnancy that happens less chance of abortion happening right? Just what realistic solutions do you have? Cause I have yet to really hear one from the anitcontraception crowd

In theory people would not have sex if they were not open to the prospect of children. This does not mean that they want children first of all from each act of intercourse, but that if a pregnancy does result it won't be looked at as a disaster.

As for realism, things do get tricky. Like I said, I don't feel comfortable supporting means which are in themselves immoral. What this means is that saying "if you're going to have sex, use contraception" isn't the right statement, because this is saying that contraception is acceptable in some situations, whereas the problems lie in the very nature of contraception.

On the other hand we have to look at the fact that if people are having sex recreationally that they are not in the mindset of sex as a unitive and generative act anyway. What I mean is that using contraception before a one night stand is not really the same as using it within a marriage, because in the former case the entire situation distorts the purpose of sex anyway. I have the feeling that in that case having a one night stand in the first place would be the major sin. So it's difficult for me to say what a person should do in that situation morally, because they shouldn't be in that situation in the first place, and assuming it is consensual, can leave at any time when the question of contraception would be relevant anyway.