Contraception

[Cosmic Charlie]

Charlie you are not torqueing me off and I apologize if I seem a little abrasive, it is certainly not personal.

But it's not a sin is it to not have sex? It's a sin if one or both withhold sexual love from one another indefintlely, but I don't think that means that the couple should not NOT have sex if it's a mutual thing and they pray together in place of it?

Michelle

My stand on this has nothing to do with not having sex. It has to do with when you have sex and why and what having sex during those times you chose to have sex and the reason behind them do to the unity/procreative bond.

Essensially I believe that since you only have sex during non-fertile times (from the standpont of this disussion I don't care, really, what you are doing during fertile times) you are not giving completely of yourself to your spouse. This is the moral issue used to dismiss the use of ABC. You are also putting up a barrier (a timing barrier, a abstinence barrier, if you will) that prevents conception. Also a moral issue used agianst ABC.

 

[Miss Shelby]

This is a personal question so feel free not to answer it if you don't want to.

But when you practiced NFP, did the temperature taking, chart keeping that sort of thing, bring a bond between you and your spouse? And what does the Church recommend when practicing it? About praying together and such? I only ask because I have heard couples say that it actually helps them to bond as a couple.

Michelle

 

[Rising_Suns]

The one where its okay to use NFP or the one where NFP is just another contraceptive

I think you know which one, Charlie.

 

[Visum Cuspis]

12. But why can't a married couple simply choose the unitive aspect of marriage and temporarily block or even permanently prevent its procreative nature? The answer is as simple and radical as the Gospel itself. When spouses give themselves honestly and entirely to each other, as the nature of married love implies and even demands, that must include their whole selves -- and the most intimate, powerful part of each person is his or her fertility. Contraception not only denies this fertility and attacks procreation; in doing so, it necessarily damages unity as well. It is the equivalent of spouses saying: "I'll give you all I am -- except my fertility; I'll accept all you are -- except your fertility." This withholding of self inevitably works to isolate and divide the spouses, and unravel the holy friendship between them . . . maybe not immediately and overtly, but deeply, and in the long run often fatally for the marriage.

13. This is why the Church is not against "artificial" contraception. She is against all contraception. The notion of "artificial" has nothing to do with the issue. In fact, it tends to confuse discussion by implying that the debate is about a mechanical intrusion into the body's organic system. It is not. The Church has no problem with science appropriately intervening to heal or enhance bodily health. Rather, the Church teaches that all contraception is morally wrong; and not only wrong, but seriously wrong. The covenant which husband and wife enter at marriage requires that all intercourse remain open to the transmission of new life. This is what becoming "one flesh" implies: complete self-giving, without reservation or exception, just as Christ withheld nothing of Himself from His bride, the Church, by dying for her on the cross. Any intentional interference with the procreative nature of intercourse necessarily involves spouses' withholding themselves from each other and from God, who is their partner in sacramental love. In effect, they steal something infinitely precious -- themselves -- from each other and from their Creator.

14. And this is why natural family planning (NFP) differs not merely in style but in moral substance from contraception as a means of regulating family size. NFP is not contraception. Rather, it is a method of fertility awareness and appreciation. It is an entirely different approach to regulating birth. NFP does nothing to attack fertility, withhold the gift of oneself from one's spouse, or block the procreative nature of intercourse. The marriage covenant requires that each act of intercourse be fully an act of self-giving, and therefore open to the possibility of new life. But when, for good reasons, a husband and wife limit their intercourse to the wife's natural periods of infertility during a month, they are simply observing a cycle which God Himself created in the woman. They are not subverting it. And so they are living within the law of God's love.

+ Charles J. Chaput, O.F.M. Cap.
Archbishop of Denver
July 22, 1998

 

[Visum Cuspis]

This is a personal question so feel free not to answer it if you don't want to.

But when you practiced NFP, did the temperature taking, chart keeping that sort of thing, bring a bond between you and your spouse? And what does the Church recommend when practicing it? About praying together and such? I only ask because I have heard couples say that it actually helps them to bond as a couple.

Michelle

NFP has brought about a lot of bonding for us. Not necessarily the temperature/charting aspect. It takes about 60 seconds for me to take my temp, and I'm half awake when that happens, and it takes another 60 seconds to record in my chart, so those aren't exactly what I'd call "bonding moments." However, our time of abstinense brings everything into perspective. We talk a lot - about why we're waiting to have children, our reasons, why we think it's important to wait; we talk about what kind of parents we're going to be; we talk about our faith, and yes, we pray - a lot. It takes a good amount of self-control, but since we practiced that self-control during our 2 1/2 years of dating, it's not difficult, especially since we know that we can have sex without sinning - it makes it a lot easier to "wait." So we flirt a lot, talk a lot, play a lot. It's been a very bonding experience for us. My friends who are practicing NFP have had similar experiences and feelings. But I think it has a lot to do with your attitude and your reasons for avoiding pregnancy (ours has a lot to do with the fact that we're both in the military), because like I've said before, I believe that NFP can be used sinfully as well.

 

[Cosmic Charlie]

12. But why can't a married couple simply choose the unitive aspect of marriage and temporarily block or even permanently prevent its procreative nature? The answer is as simple and radical as the Gospel itself. When spouses give themselves honestly and entirely to each other, as the nature of married love implies and even demands, that must include their whole selves -- and the most intimate, powerful part of each person is his or her fertility. Contraception not only denies this fertility and attacks procreation; in doing so, it necessarily damages unity as well. It is the equivalent of spouses saying: "I'll give you all I am -- except my fertility; I'll accept all you are -- except your fertility." This withholding of self inevitably works to isolate and divide the spouses, and unravel the holy friendship between them . . . maybe not immediately and overtly, but deeply, and in the long run often fatally for the marriage.

13. This is why the Church is not against "artificial" contraception. She is against all contraception. The notion of "artificial" has nothing to do with the issue. In fact, it tends to confuse discussion by implying that the debate is about a mechanical intrusion into the body's organic system. It is not. The Church has no problem with science appropriately intervening to heal or enhance bodily health. Rather, the Church teaches that all contraception is morally wrong; and not only wrong, but seriously wrong. The covenant which husband and wife enter at marriage requires that all intercourse remain open to the transmission of new life. This is what becoming "one flesh" implies: complete self-giving, without reservation or exception, just as Christ withheld nothing of Himself from His bride, the Church, by dying for her on the cross. Any intentional interference with the procreative nature of intercourse necessarily involves spouses' withholding themselves from each other and from God, who is their partner in sacramental love. In effect, they steal something infinitely precious -- themselves -- from each other and from their Creator.

14. And this is why natural family planning (NFP) differs not merely in style but in moral substance from contraception as a means of regulating family size. NFP is not contraception. Rather, it is a method of fertility awareness and appreciation. It is an entirely different approach to regulating birth. NFP does nothing to attack fertility, withhold the gift of oneself from one's spouse, or block the procreative nature of intercourse. The marriage covenant requires that each act of intercourse be fully an act of self-giving, and therefore open to the possibility of new life. But when, for good reasons, a husband and wife limit their intercourse to the wife's natural periods of infertility during a month, they are simply observing a cycle which God Himself created in the woman. They are not subverting it. And so they are living within the law of God's love.

+ Charles J. Chaput, O.F.M. Cap.
Archbishop of Denver
July 22, 1998

They are obsernving a cycle God gave women. So what. Seriously ?

Their are still intentional withholding themselves.

This arguement has holes.

 

[marciadietrich]

Humanae Vitae basically says births are already naturally spaced by the woman's fertility cycle. Then, if you have a serious need you might use NFP (for the time needed) and not offend morality in doing so.

An interesting letter to the editor (or website) and replies from someone frustrated with NFP after 18 years of use. Including starting right from the honeymoon.

http://ccli.org/news/magazine/replies.php

 

[in2Nas]

in2Nas, others have given you excellent resources. The only thing I want to add is that this is not an easy topic to wrap one's mind around, so don't get discouraged if it doesn't come easily. My husband and I submit to the Church's teaching, but parts of the teaching really haven't moved beyond an intellectual understanding of "here's the reasons" for me yet. I'll pray for your search for understanding as I work on my own.

Thank you. I didn't think this thread was going to create such contraversy. The thing that bothers me is that I have one son already, and I feel that's it for me. I'm only child and so is my wife, and I feel perfectly comfortable with thw way my life the it is setup. In fact, I know myself, and I know for a fact that bringing another child in the world put in extreme strain on my family. I'm in the military for one, and being deployed alot puts an awful lot on my wife's plate when I leave which having 2 (or more) instead of one makes things more difficult. There's also the financial well-being. Quite frankly, I just feel I wouldn't be a good parent fo rmultiple children.

 

[Dominus Fidelis]

Thank you. I didn't think this thread was going to create such contraversy. The thing that bothers me is that I have one son already, and I feel that's it for me. I'm only child and so is my wife, and I feel perfectly comfortable with thw way my life the it is setup. In fact, I know myself, and I know for a fact that bringing another child in the world put in extreme strain on my family. I'm in the military for one, and being deployed alot puts an awful lot on my wife's plate when I leave which having 2 (or more) instead of one makes things more difficult. There's also the financial well-being. Quite frankly, I just feel I wouldn't be a good parent fo rmultiple children.

That is a common and understandable feeling. But as a father of three under four, let me tell you, its all relative. I said the same thing for each one and God knows what we can handle better than we do. Trust.

 

[Dominus Fidelis]

2) I don't like the characteization the i don't understand.

Hmmm...shall I quote your numerous statements that you don't understand?

Hey, smartie, what makes you think we aren't using NFP?

Your own statements in the past claiming that you can't use it because your wife's temperature is hard to track. (Nevermind that fact that there are NFP methods which don't rely on temperature at all.)

 

[Dominus Fidelis]

Yes, but I think that some people are concerned that NFP is nothing but a grand loophole and is actually a form of contraception.

In my humble opinion, of course.

Actually, they want to use ABC so they are trying to find contradictions in the Church's teachings so they can feel better about themselves.

I've done the same thing, so I can recognize when it is being done.

 

[D'Ann]

Actually, they want to use ABC so they are trying to find contradictions in the Church's teachings so they can feel better about themselves.

I've done the same thing, so I can recognize when it is being done.

Yes, Chris... I think most of us has done the same thing...

 

[Skripper]

Actually, they want to use ABC so they are trying to find contradictions in the Church's teachings so they can feel better about themselves.

I've done the same thing, so I can recognize when it is being done.

I remember that . . . you've come a long way, my friend.