Contraception

[msaenz]

Why is it that before the 1930 Lambeth Conference all Christian denominations considered artificial contraceptives NOT to be morally permissable? Why did things change?

 

[MoonlightParade]

as the times change so does society, and so do church values for the most part...

 

[porcupine]

Why is it that before the 1930 Lambeth Conference all Christian denominations considered artificial contraceptives NOT to be morally permissable? Why did things change?

Unthankfulness. Rebellion against God. Rejection of God's gifts.

 

[Verv]

Why is it that before the 1930 Lambeth Conference all Christian denominations considered artificial contraceptives NOT to be morally permissable? Why did things change?

Good question.

The Church is not a perfect entity, and so it is liable to make mistakes. Whether this means their second decision was right, or their first decision was right, that makes sense. St. Augustine commented about this, noting that in fact, if Christianity did not at times act in a corrupt way, it would not be Christianity, being that mankind is inherently sinful and imperfect, thus naturally we cannot be expected to have perfect Church doctrine.

 

[msaenz]

as the times change so does society, and so do church values for the most part...

The times and society may change but God and His word remains the same... "Be fruitful and multiply" (Genesis 1:28).

Society has changed no question. Unfortunately, one change made by society is its views of children. In the Psalms we see that children were considered blessings:

Your wife will be like a fruitful vine
within your house;
your children will be like olive shoots
around your table.
Lo, thus shall the man be blessed
who fears the Lord.
Psalm 128: 3,4

Unfortunately, nowadays children are considered emotional and financial burdens. And because of that families take it upon themselves to decide how many children God wants them to have. No longer is God in control of such an important decision. I think its important to give God control of ALL our lives...our families, our finances, our children AND our FERTILITY.

In Christ,
Michelle

 

[Ave Maria]

as the times change so does society, and so do church values for the most part...

That's sad. God's values never change!

 

[bliz]

And because of that families take it upon themselves to decide how many children God wants them to have. No longer is God in control of such an important decision. I think its important to give God control of ALL our lives...our families, our finances, our children AND our FERTILITY.

Do you really think that a piece of laytex or a birth contol pill is more powerful than God? Does someone using any form of contreception take control away from God? If you really believe that, then you and I are talking about two very different Gods. My God created the universe out of nothing. He cannot be thwarted by anything I do.

 

[MoonlightParade]

That's sad. God's values never change!

True, but what is truly sad is the church doesnt always follow God's values....

 

[Edouard]

Question:

If contraceptives is sinful - because you deny God total control over your life persay!
Where does the idea of responsibility of one's family take place!

Scenario that very well could occur:

I don't use birth control: I have a child every nine months. for let's say 10 years.
So I have ten children living off one income! let's say 28-35000!

Who is the financial responsibility fall on? Raising my children no problem.. a little hectic, but no problem! If I run out of finances how do I support my family?
Trust in God for everything I do already! however, does not God ask us to be responsible to ourselves and to HIm.??

So, I have no money for housing or food for ten children, so then what?
I trusted God - so what do i do???

awaiting your suggestion??
One more thought, to say to abstain from intercourse with your spouse, unhealthy: that is also a very serious responsibility for both husband and wife
Edouard
may God provide you with wisdom!
P.S. read Jeremiah chapter 1

 

[porcupine]

Question:

If contraceptives is sinful - because you deny God total control over your life persay!
Where does the idea of responsibility of one's family take place!

Scenario that very well could occur:

I don't use birth control: I have a child every nine months. for let's say 10 years.
So I have ten children living off one income! let's say 28-35000!

Who is the financial responsibility fall on? Raising my children no problem.. a little hectic, but no problem! If I run out of finances how do I support my family?
Trust in God for everything I do already! however, does not God ask us to be responsible to ourselves and to HIm.??

So, I have no money for housing or food for ten children, so then what?
I trusted God - so what do i do???

awaiting your suggestion??
One more thought, to say to abstain from intercourse with your spouse, unhealthy: that is also a very serious responsibility for both husband and wife
Edouard
may God provide you with wisdom!
P.S. read Jeremiah chapter 1

However unlikely the scenario you describe, I will try to answer the question: Since it is God who blesses you with children, He will also make provision to care for them. Thousands will attest that God always provided when more children came. I am one who will testify that God is faithful. Where is your faith?

How is it "unhealthy" to abstain? -- not that I would EVER recommend that.

 

[Ave Maria]

True, but what is truly sad is the church doesnt always follow God's values....

True and many Protestant churches allow contraception.

 

[invisible trousers]

The times and society may change but God and His word remains the same... "Be fruitful and multiply" (Genesis 1:28).

Right. However, it doesn't say "don't use contraceptives, fool!". The context of the verse and those surrounding it have absolutely nothing to do with contraceptives at all, but the creation of earth. I'm led to believe you're twisting it out of context in order to support your views.

Unfortunately, nowadays children are considered emotional and financial burdens.

Well, if you're raising a child and sending them to college then they're going to be a financial burden. I wouldn't say it's a bad thing at all, but for most families that's the way it's going to be.

And because of that families take it upon themselves to decide how many children God wants them to have. No longer is God in control of such an important decision. I think its important to give God control of ALL our lives...our families, our finances, our children AND our FERTILITY

Since families also take it upon themselves to budget their money, does that mean God is no longer in control of their funds? I find your logic a little lacking, since God is always in control, no matter what we do.

How is it "unhealthy" to abstain? -- not that I would EVER recommend that.

I think the line of logic is that sexual activity is part of a healthy relationship, and stopping it might bother your spouse a little bit, putting the health of your relationship in jeopardy.

True and many Protestant churches allow contraception.

That would be quite a problem if there were scripture telling us not to use contraceptives.

 

[praying]

However unlikely the scenario you describe, I will try to answer the question: Since it is God who blesses you with children, He will also make provision to care for them. Thousands will attest that God always provided when more children came. I am one who will testify that God is faithful. Where is your faith?

How is it "unhealthy" to abstain? -- not that I would EVER recommend that.

To say that God will always provide is a catch-all, that does not allow for reasoned dialogue on the subject.

The reality is however that many children do grow up in this world in Christian homes not provided for (go to bed hungry, without proper medical care, without adequate clothing, unable to attend school etc) all because of poverty. To tell people who live in abject poverty to be fruitful and mulitply is irresponsible at best and malicious at worst. Perhaps in first world countries, but not even in all of them children are minimally provided for but in most third wolrd nations they are not. Is that because God isn't faithful, no. God wants us to enjoy His blessings and be repsonsible in doing so. If that means that you can only reasonably afford one or two children then that is the responsioble thing to do, to plan for a family that you will be able to provide for.

 

[porcupine]

To say that God will always provide is a catch-all, that does not allow for reasoned dialogue on the subject.

The reality is however that many children do grow up in this world in Christian homes not provided for (go to bed hungry, without proper medical care, without adequate clothing, unable to attend school etc) all because of poverty. To tell people who live in abject poverty to be fruitful and mulitply is irresponsible at best and malicious at worst. Perhaps in first world countries, but not even in all of them children are minimally provided for but in most third wolrd nations they are not. Is that because God isn't faithful, no. God wants us to enjoy His blessings and be repsonsible in doing so. If that means that you can only reasonably afford one or two children then that is the responsioble thing to do, to plan for a family that you will be able to provide for.

You need a lot more than catch-alls yourself. How much is 'proper" medical care? Or "adequate" clothing? We tend to judge such things based upon the surplusage we have in the west.

Normally one does not have to tell people in poorer parts of the world to be fruitful and multiply. They are quite willing to do that since that IS their social security.

 

[Ave Maria]

That would be quite a problem if there were scripture telling us not to use contraceptives.

I don't need scripture to always tell me when something is right or wrong. Tradition also helps. Sexual intercourse's primary purpose has always been procreation. That should tell you something about contraception.

 

[praying]

How much is 'proper" medical care? Or "adequate" clothing?

There is enough food to feed everybody in the world now; in the year 2000 there will still be enough food for everyone. And yet 500 million people are malnourished. The realities linking these statements are a relatively inconsequential part of our lives here in the United States, but in Third World countries these realities are part of the shape of living. It is primarily in the third World that protein energy malnutrition (PEM) affects 500 million people and kills 10 million every year.

People: Poverty in the "3rd" World, Volume 1, Images by Wernher Krutein and PHOTOVAULT

http://www.hungerbanquet.org/


I don't need to compare to what we have here these are the realities for many third nation's children; hunger, improper medical attention, no education, AIDS the list is almost endless.


How much is enough, when thrid world children what our poorest children have who also have hunger, medical and education issues that would be great.

Normally one does not have to tell people in poorer parts of the world to be fruitful and multiply. They are quite willing to do that since that IS their social security.

How in God's name is theri social security?

 

[Filia Mariae]

Question:

If contraceptives is sinful - because you deny God total control over your life persay!
Where does the idea of responsibility of one's family take place!

Scenario that very well could occur:

I don't use birth control: I have a child every nine months. for let's say 10 years.
So I have ten children living off one income! let's say 28-35000!

This situation is totally unrealistic. For starters, one is supposed to abstain for 4-6 weeks after giving birth. Seciond of all, no one starts ovulating again the day after they give birth. Thirdly, if one uses ecological breast feeding, this naturally spaces children 18-24 months apart. In addition, many people around the world live on far less resources per person than what you have described above. Our idea of an acceptable amount of money to raise a child is absurdly high compared with the rest of the world.

Who is the financial responsibility fall on? Raising my children no problem.. a little hectic, but no problem! If I run out of finances how do I support my family?
Trust in God for everything I do already! however, does not God ask us to be responsible to ourselves and to HIm.??

So, I have no money for housing or food for ten children, so then what?
I trusted God - so what do i do???

What if you have two children and everything is going peachy keen and then one day you die and your spouse falls ill and there is no money for two children to eat or have a house? What do you do then? You cannot plan everything. You must rely on the Lord.

That said, a family may have grace reason for delaying the conception of another child. They may use Natural Family Planning (www.ccli.org) -not to be confused with the unreliable rhythm method- and abstain for about a week at a time when the woman is fertile.

awaiting your suggestion??
One more thought, to say to abstain from intercourse with your spouse, unhealthy: that is also a very serious responsibility for both husband and wife
Edouard
may God provide you with wisdom!
P.S. read Jeremiah chapter 1

There is absolutely nothing unhealthy about abstaining from intercourse for a week at a time. After a woman gives birth, they need to abstain for longer than that. Self-control and learning to express love and affection in ways other than sex are healthy things.

What is unhealthy to to renew your marriage vows in intercourse but to tell a lie with your body by refusing to be open to life. St. Paul tells us in Ephesians that marriage is an image of Christ and the Church. Christ held nothing back from the Church. He loved her with His body until the death. He held nothing back. To make an image of this love in the act of intercourse but to withhold through contraception mocks the gift of Christ to His Church.

 

[praying]

I don't need scripture to always tell me when something is right or wrong. Tradition also helps. Sexual intercourse's primary purpose has always been procreation. That should tell you something about contraception.

Why do you say that? Procreation happened, largely because of a lack of birth control not because people did not want to have sex for pleasure only, they did and they did it at risk of conceiving.

 

[Filia Mariae]

That would be quite a problem if there were scripture telling us not to use contraceptives.

Nowhere does Scripture say that everything we need to know is in Scripture. Nor is everything explicitly stated in one liners in Scripture. Like, it doesn't say any where that drive by shootings are a bad thing. But we can conclude such from Jesus' teachings. If you look for everything to be neatly packaged in Scriptural one-liners, you are selling Christ short.

 

[Filia Mariae]

Why do you say that? Procreation happened, largely because of a lack of birth control not because people did not want to have sex for pleasure only, they did and they did it at risk of conceiving.

Procreation happened because God ordained it. God has never indicated that He created sex for reasons other than for procreation and unity/bonding between spouses. Pleasure is a motivating factor and gift from God, but it is not the purpose of sex.