continue having sex?

[GreenGiant]

WordNet - Cite This Source - Share This fornicate
verbhave sex without being married

Did you read the rest of my post? that scripture does not say that sex before marriage is wrong, it says sex outside marriage is wrong (IE adultary). I was suggesting that sex is marriage (in the eyes of God). How would you explain the marriage of Isaac and Rebekah?

 

[sconzey]

WordNet - Cite This Source - Share This fornicate
verbhave sex without being married

If you want to know the meaning of a word in the bible, you don't look to secular sources, you look at the original text that was translated into English. Fortunately we have Strong's concordance to help us with that. The original greek word is "porneia" (G4202), meaning an "illicit sexual act". Strong then goes on to expand on this:

1) illicit sexual intercourse
a) adultery, fornication, homosexuality, lesbianism, intercourse with animals etc.
b) sexual intercourse with close relatives; Lev. 18
c) sexual intercourse with a divorced man or woman; Mk. 10:11,12
2) metaph. the worship of idols
a) of the defilement of idolatry, as incurred by eating the sacrifices offered to idols

So, we look to other parts of the bible to find the definition of "illicit sexual intercourse" and the aforementioned OT and NT verses assist us in this, using Scripture to assist us in interpreting scripture, not the Free Online Dictionary.

Edit: I should also add that at the time the King James Version was translated (where we get the word "fornicate" used in this context), the meaning of the word was much closer to the latin root: fornicārī, literally "to consort with prostitutes"

 

[Blank123]

Did you read the rest of my post? that scripture does not say that sex before marriage is wrong, it says sex outside marriage is wrong (IE adultary). I was suggesting that sex is marriage (in the eyes of God). How would you explain the marriage of Isaac and Rebekah?

did you read the rest of my post?



fornication is fornication is fornication unless you've made that marriage covenant and have obeyed the laws of the land concerning marriage (Romans 13, 1 Peter 2:13-17) then any sex would be fornication which is expressly forbidden by God's people in Scripture.

 

[sconzey]

did you read the rest of my post?

And did you read *my* post? The greek word translated as fornication in this context doesn't mean what you seem to think it means.

I don't get why this doctrine is a big deal to some people. It doesn't encourage promiscuity, it doesn't devalue marriage, it just encourages a fuller understanding of what God through the original Authors of the Bible meant by those words:

That marriage is the spiritual union of a man and a woman with God, created and maintained through physical union. It doesn't matter where you chuck your boquet, what you say, whether your dress is Red or White. The only vow that matters, doesn't need to be said.

 

[GreenGiant]

did you read the rest of my post?

Yes and i agree with sconzey on this one, you are taking a modern meaning of the word fornication without looking at the origonal text.

 

[BranwenUerchLlyr]

If she can't wait to have sex now, she probably can't wait if you're married and something prevents physical intimacy (anything from physical injury to emotional problems to job relocation). People don't magically change their attitudes towards sex when they get married. If you don't have a problem with sex outside of God's will while unmarried, you likely won't have a problem with it while you're married and temptation comes.

Oh come on. Are you implying that if she'll have premarital sex, she'll cheat on him, too? Would you turn the tables and accuse him of the same thing? There are many good reasons for waiting until marriage for sex. Deeming it a slippery slope and practically demonizing the situation steers clear of all of them.

You clearly know the right path to take here, or you wouldn’t be asking. It’s just a matter of actually doing it.

 

[Blank123]

Yes and i agree with sconzey on this one, you are taking a modern meaning of the word fornication without looking at the origonal text.

until you're able to deal with those other verses as it relates to the issue we don't have much to talk about, i s'ppose. i'm not interested in a debate for the sake of debating as it drives this thread completely offtopic and does nothing to help the OP. But it should be rather clear: sex before marriage is sex outside marriage. It all equals fornication (a perversion of the purpose of sex - 1 Cor 7) if you have not made that marital covenant and followed the laws of the land regarding marriage. Looking for loopholes isn't going to help you much in the long run, that just ensures you'll wind up in legalism.

as for Isaac, the Bible doesn't say they jumped into the sack and were married just because they had sex. reading into the passage what you want to see is called eisegesis and always leads to faulty theology. If you want to build an argument from any given passage you have to build it from the context, rather than a prooftext, which does not support what you're saying.


66 Then the servant told Isaac all he had done. 67 Isaac brought her into the tent of his mother Sarah, and he married Rebekah. So she became his wife, and he loved her; and Isaac was comforted after his mother's death. - NIV

66 And the servant told Isaac all the things that he had done. 67 Then Isaac brought her into his mother Sarah’s tent; and he took Rebekah and she became his wife, and he loved her. So Isaac was comforted after his mother’s death. - NKJV



66 The servant told Isaac everything that had happened.67 Then Isaac brought Rebekah into the tent of Sarah, his mother, and she became his wife. Isaac loved her very much, and so he was comforted after his mother's death. - NCV

etc...


When Lots daughters got him drunk to have sex with him i doubt very much that meant they both married him.


but thats all i'm going to say on the matter now as, like i said, i have no interest in debating for the sake of debating

 

[sconzey]

until you're able to deal with those other verses as it relates to the issue we don't have much to talk about

Those other verses use the same greek word, again translated as "fornicate", as I said, from the latin root meaning "to consort with prostitutes".

GreenGiant's original point remains: there is nowhere in the Bible that talks about the marriage ceremony having any spiritual significance at all.

This is not looking for loopholes, if -- as I hold, and I believe the Bible supports -- sex is marriage, it doesn't excuse any immoral behavior. In fact it goes a long way to explaining why it's immoral. This about understanding the very foundations of marriage.

How this helps the OP is easy. They're spiritually married now, so why stop? Concentrate on making sure it's going to last, being aware of the effect the sex is having on their relationship, and ensuring it never becomes just about the sex.

 

[Blank123]

Those other verses use the same greek word, again translated as "fornicate", as I said, from the latin root meaning "to consort with prostitutes".

did you actually read those other verses?

 

[sconzey]

did you actually read those other verses?

Well the Ephesians verse and the Colossians verse use the same greek word.

The references to Peter and Romans are more about obeying the "Laws of the Land" as far as you can, and beyond peripheral relevance to marriage, I'm not sure of their relevance to the OP.

 

[Blank123]

The references to Peter and Romans are more about obeying the "Laws of the Land" as far as you can, and beyond peripheral relevance to marriage, I'm not sure of their relevance to the OP.

its relevance is that in order to be married in North America (or wherever you may be) you must follow the laws of the land or face God's wrath for living outside His will. doesn't get much clearer than that.

 

[sconzey]

its relevance is that in order to be married in North America (or wherever you may be) you must follow the laws of the land or face God's wrath for living outside His will. doesn't get much clearer than that.

That's a fair point, but eleven states still recognise a commonlaw marriage, and (as far as I know) the other thirty-nine don't tell you that you can't have sex without first registering your intent...

Essentially, the fallacy here is assuming that what God means when He talks about marriage, and what Man means when he talks about marriage are the same thing.

If the OP lived in a country (Iran, I understand is like this) where it was illegal to have sex with someone without first having a legally recognised marriage, then it would be an entirely different issue.