Constantine and the decliine of the church

[HumbleMan]

People perceive that something is preached a certain way about speaking and your inheritance. The success thing about Word of Faith is that you get into agreement with the mind of Christ. No part of your inheritance is yours because you're "entitled" to it. At the same time, it is yours whether or not you avail yourself of it or not.
..........

You'll have to excuse me, as I know very little about WoF. The entitlement I was talking about was the attitude of some that we can do whatever we want just because we say we're Christian. Yes, it's nice to be able to practice our faith as we see fit, but nowhere in the bible does it say that we won't find persecution and isolation for doing so. There's many places in the NT that intimate that it's an honor to be persecuted for our faith.

But many times, the world sees us no different than non-believers in that we're entitled to do things our way. I like being able to wear my cross and have a bible on my desk, but I also know if someone is offended, and I put them away, it does not take away from my relationship with God, but the act of humility in doing so will hopefully open a door to conversation and hopefully being able to plant a seed.

I guess what I mean is that, especially here in the south, I see many self professing Christians with a smug attitude and a sense of superiority when it comes to a public display of their faith. Many times it seems that they're spoiling for a fight over things.

I read the bible when I was saved at 30 years old, and have re-read it many times. One thing I constantly take away from it is the call for humility and that our actions aren't supposed to be for others to see, but for God to be satisfied when we live out the Greatest Commandment.

I may be totally off in my perspective of things, but I see too many people being obnoxious about things and not displaying the fruits of the Spirit.

 

[RDKirk]

Thank you for all the replies.

I'm not always so good at expressing my thoughts coherently, especially after lunch and before afternoon coffee. So please bear with me if I ramble....

The two things that come to my mind is first: when the persecuation ended, the faithful became comfortable. I look at the church in China and how it is exploding despite oppression from the government, and then I look at the church in general and see the shallowness of of the theology, the disregard for history, and the attitude of entitlement like the world owes the Christian something just because we say so.

Second, and please know that I am not a RCC basher, I see through history that the farther away the church got from being "underground", the more the power of the church led to corruption of the heirarchal church, including simony, the sale of indulgences, the political and financial motivations of it's leaders.... etc.

A few years ago, word emerged about a pastor who was executed in North Korea and his congregation of about 23 people and their families imprisoned for life.

This pastor had been a minor North Korean government official who came to know Jesus while making an official trip to China--meeting a Chinese Christian while there.

When he returned to North Korea, he absolutely knew the penalty of being discovered a Christian, and he absolutely knew the penalty of him--especially as a government official--spreading the gospel.

He absolutely knew that the next person he spoke of Jesus to could be the person who would him in.

 

[RDKirk]

As others noted, Constantine didn't make Christianity the state religion, rather he instituted official toleration--decriminalizing Christianity. Constantine did, however, act rather favorably toward Christianity, offering it his patronage, and even was the host for the first ecumenical council in Nicea (though under Constantine Nicea was also overturned in favor of the Arians, as Constantine's closest religious advisers were themselves Arians or at least sympathetic to Arianism). His sons were divided between the Nicene and Arian camps--a tug-of-war that would continue until Julian the Apostate, and eventually Theodosius I making Nicene Christianity the official religion of the Roman Empire.

And as others have said, with Constantine's patronage came good and bad. The unprecedented freedom of worship Christians experienced was, of course, a boon. And yet attaching stately power and authority to the Christian Church also bore a lot of ill. When the State sought to act in the Church's "favor" by criminalizing heresy, even using violence to squelch heretics, it didn't do the Church any real, actual favors. And it also began the long struggle between Church and State that would largely define the middle ages, in both East and West.

Though that struggle between Church and State isn't Constantine's fault, as the man could hardly have known the future.

And so it is that Church and State rarely play nice together. It is usually inevitable that the State will try and lord itself over the Church, or else many in the Church will attempt to make the State the strong arm of the Church. Neither is acceptable. And history is replete with the disasters of of both--crusades, inquisitions, pogroms, etc. And in the last century, one only need see the way the Nazis co-opted the Christian Church in Germany, the Reichskirche.

-CryptoLutheran

As usual, ViaCrucis provides a well-thought post. I would not call Constantine a saint, I'd call him a wilely politician dealing with a social problem in many ways similar to Obama's problem with homsexuality.

Christianity proved to be impossible to purge--Constantine had personally witnessed the failure of one of the most dramatic attempts to destroy it.

By making Christianity a legal religion, Constantine did indeed simultaneously become the Pontifex Maximus of Christianity, as everyone understood the emperor was the titular head of all Roman religions, the still-dominant paganism as well as Christianity. The title of Pontifex Maximus was not rejected for another 80 years--at the same time that Christianity became the only legal religion in the empire.

As the head of all religion, Constantine could not simply make Christianity a clear favorite. After all, Christians had been demonized by previous emperors for over 200 years as everthing from anti-patriotic to atheist to cannibals and vampires.

Even emperors were subject to assassination if they outraged the public too much, so Constantine could not--even if he secretly desired (debatable)--make Christianity the primary religion overnight.

 

[Alonso_Castillo]

Thank you for all the replies.

I'm not always so good at expressing my thoughts coherently, especially after lunch and before afternoon coffee. So please bear with me if I ramble....

The two things that come to my mind is first: when the persecuation ended, the faithful became comfortable. I look at the church in China and how it is exploding despite oppression from the government, and then I look at the church in general and see the shallowness of of the theology, the disregard for history, and the attitude of entitlement like the world owes the Christian something just because we say so.

Second, and please know that I am not a RCC basher, I see through history that the farther away the church got from being "underground", the more the power of the church led to corruption of the heirarchal church, including simony, the sale of indulgences, the political and financial motivations of it's leaders.... etc.

Bien, voy a responderte.

Cuando constantino acabó con la persecusión de la Iglesia el no hizo obligatorio el cristianismo para todo el imperio, por el contrario hubo muchos años antes de que el cristianismo se hiciera oficial para el Imperio, y aún así, en el caso del imperio romano de occidente, el que hablaba Latín como lengua oficial fue ocupado por los bárbaros que invadieron Galia (hoy Francia), Bretaña (hoy Inglaterra), Hipania y Lusitania ( hoy España y Portugal) y finalmente Italia. Por su parte Constantino Movió la Capital del imperio y el senado de Roma a Constantinopla, pero antes de partir mandó construir la antigua Basílica de San Pedro, La Basílica de San Pablo y otras Basílicas de Roma, Pero Constantino mudó toda la capital a Constantinopla.

El Papa Silvestre I era el obispo de Roma en ese entonces y la capital del imperio estaba en Milán donde San Ambrosio recibió el Edicto de Milan que dio paz definitiva a los cristianos.

La Iglesia no se quedó ni tranquila ni pasiva como pareces insinuar, sino que emprendió la tarea de predicar el evangelio y de construir Templos y Capillas que antes del Edicto de Milán era imposible construir. Eso no significa que a partir de ese momentola Iglesia empezase a utilizar imágenes e íconos, pues estos ya existían en las catacumbas que era donde los cristianos se reunían para la misa. Allí están las catacumbas testimoniando lo que te digo.

El Papa emprendió la tarea de evangelizar el resto de europa, y de enfrentar las continuas herejías que surgieron la más peligrosa de todas era el Arrianismo, que fue un antecesor del Islam pero sin Mahoma.

La Iglesia no entró en pecados de heregía o escándalos por simonía, estos escándalos han acomañado a la Iglesia desde los tiempos de los apóstoles, la Simonía es un término que se acuño por Simon el Mago que quizo pagar a Pedro por el don del Espíritu Santo. Este pecado continua hasta nuestros días en forma de "Diezmo de Bendición" o "Donativo de prosperidad" que los protestantes solicitan hoy en día según la comunidad.

La Iglesia Católica es la Iglesia de Cristo. No hay vuelta pa tras.


(english Google Translation)

Well, I'll answer.



When Constantine ended the persecution of the Church was not required Christianity to the whole empire, however there were many years before Christianity became official for the Empire, and yet, in the case of the Western Roman Empire , who spoke Latin as the official language was occupied by barbarians who invaded Gaul (now France), Britain (now England), Hipania and Lusitania (now Spain and Portugal) and finally Italy. Meanwhile Constantine moved the capital of empire and the senate of Rome to Constantinople, but before leaving he built the old St. Peter's Basilica, The Basilica of St. Paul and other basilicas of Rome, but Constantine moved across the capital to Constantinople.



Pope Sylvester I was bishop of Rome at the time and the capital of the empire was in Milan, where Ambrose received the Edict of Milan which gave definitive peace to Christians.



The Church did not remain passive and quiet and as you seem to imply, but undertook to preach the gospel and to build temples and chapels before the Edict of Milan was impossible to build. That does not mean from that momentola Church starts using images and icons, as these existed in the catacombs which was where Christians gathered for Mass. There are catacombs witness what I say.



Pope undertook to evangelize the rest of Europe, and to address the continuing heresies that emerged the most dangerous of all was Arianism, which was a forerunner of Islam without Mohammed.



The Church did not come into sins of heresy and simony scandals, these scandals have acomañado the Church since the days of the apostles, Simony is a term coined by Simon Magus who wanted Peter to pay for the gift of the Holy Spirit . This sin continues to this day in the form of "Tithe Blessing" or "Donation of prosperity" that Protestants today requested by community.



The Catholic Church is the Church of Christ. No return pa after.