Considering Lutheranism - any converts here?

[MarkRohfrietsch]

Well, thanks a lot.

I meant no offense, only to reinforce the idea of faith and trust in God. God gave us His Word; in His Word He tells us what He wants us to know, and what we need to know. He does not always tell us what "we" want to know.

1 Corinthians 2:4-5
4 and my speech and my message were not in plausible words of wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power, 5 so that your faith might not rest in the wisdom of men but in the power of God.

I believe that the world spends to much time speculating about stuff that matter little in the big picture, and that such speculation often distracts from the Law and Gospel, and how the application of each leads us to salvation.

 

[LizaMarie]

One thing that kept me in the confessional Lutheran church when my kids were young was I was really impressed with WELS Christian education, from the Lutheran day schools(K-8)and Sunday school and VBS. I taught both of the latter and volunteered at our Lutheran day school and was an aide at the preschool. I can't speak for other denominations. When I was a free church evangelical I was single and had no children although the church I attended did have a school(out on the West Coast)with a waiting list of two years. But I didn't pay as much attention to the school since I had no children at the time. I only know what I've seen in my current(WELS) church. But it is one of the strengths of the WELS (and LCMS which I was confirmed in)if the OP is has young children.
Not saying other denonminations don't have good Christian educations, just that that is the one of the strengths of confessional Lutheranism IMO.

 

[FaithT]

One thing that kept me in the confessional Lutheran church when my kids were young was I was really impressed with WELS Christian education, from the Lutheran day schools(K-8)and Sunday school and VBS. I taught both of the latter and volunteered at our Lutheran day school and was an aide at the preschool. I can't speak for other denominations. When I was a free church evangelical I was single and had no children although the church I attended did have a school(out on the West Coast)with a waiting list of two years. But I didn't pay as much attention to the school since I had no children at the time. I only know what I've seen in my current(WELS) church. But it is one of the strengths of the WELS (and LCMS which I was confirmed in)if the OP is has young children.
Not saying other denonminations don't have good Christian educations, just that that is the one of the strengths of confessional Lutheranism IMO.

I have one daughter who’s now an adult and made me a grandma last year. Thanks for your kind reply.

 

[FaithT]

Light or not, with out the rising and setting of the sun, the term "day" is wide open to interpretation. The Epistle you quote is not in the context of the Creation account; rather it is in regard to the "light" of faith, in context to those to whom John wrote his letter:

5 This is the message we have heard from him and proclaim to you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. 6 If we say we have fellowship with him while we walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin. 8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.​

There is nothing in Genesis to tell us there was light of any kind in this world, and certainly no rising and setting of the sun, until it was created.

My church sees a “day” as a 24 hour period.

 

[The Liturgist]

I don't think that it is so much that they stop being the body and blood per se, but rather that the Scriptures, Confessions, and Luther state that the Supper takes place in a Sacramental setting. Some churches consume all of the elements, some dispose in a piscina, some burn them. Some are reserved for people that cannot attend church or are needing home care. A rare few keep them in a tabernacle. The difference is that the RCC makes a point to actually worship the consecrated elements outside of a sacramental setting, the Confessional Lutheran Churches do not make that mistake as scripture is silent on it.

Interestingly the Eastern Orthodox do not practice Eucharist Devotion in the Roman Catholic manner, despite also reserving the Eucharist, and having presanctified liturgies in Lent and Holy Week (but not on Good Friday), the text of which closely resembled that of the Roman Rite before Pope Pius XII rewrote the Presanctified Mass in 1955 (to the extent that the Eastern Orthodox credit Pope Gregory I, St. Gregory Dialogos as he is known to Orthodox Christians, also known to Catholics and high church Protestants as St. Gregory the Great, who had been a legate of the Roman Church to Constantinople for several years in his youth and was also responsible for sending St. Augustine of Canterbury to Britain to convert the Angles and provide leadership to the isolated British churches, and for providing civil government after the Ostrogoths sacked Rome around 600 and the secular authorities collapsed).

This is one of many instances where Lutheran and Orthodox practice is very similiar.

One of the more striking differences, indeed probably the only really striking difference, is like the Roman Catholic Church, most Lutherans believe that the Real Change of the bread and wine into the body and blood of our Lord occurs with the Words of Institution, whereas the Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox and the Church of the East believe it happens with the Epiklesis, a prayer invoking the Holy Spirit and asking the Holy Spirit to cause the gifts to become the Body and Blood of our Lord. In contrast to Roman Catholic liturgies, many Lutheran liturgies, but not all (for example, those in the 1978 Lutheran Book of Worship or the version of the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom used by the Ukrainian Lutheran Church) lack an epiklesis, whereas the ancient Liturgy of Addai and Mari, used by the Assyrian Church of the East, lacks a clearly defined institution narrative, and some Syriac Orthodox liturgies have an Institution Narrative that describes the Words of Institution rather than directly quoting them.

I really love Lutheranism, being of Scandinavian and German descent, although I also love Eastern and Oriental Orthodoxy, Anglicanism, the Church of the East, Methodism and Roman Catholicism. Basically any traditional church with a strong sacramental theology and a focus on liturgical beauty I am all over. Thus my great affection for the ecumenical Traditional Theology forum we have here on CF.com.

By the way, the LCMS publishes two of the best hymnals around, the 1941 Lutheran Hymnal and the 2006 Lutheran Service Book. I think @MarkRohfrietsch recently mentioned to me something about a new traditional language version of the Lutheran Service Book. There is a new WELS hymnal coming out soon which I am looking forward to adding to my collection. I also love the 1959 Lutheran Hymnal and Service Book, published by the ALC, which I believe is sadly disused, although if anyone knows of a parish still using it, I would like to hear about it; this hymnal was the first English language Lutheran hymnal to introduce the Litany of Peace, which is used at the start of the Eastern Orthodox Divine Liturgy and several other services. There is also a new WELS hymnal coming out which I am looking forward to adding to my collection. I also like the 1978 Lutheran Book of Worship but I did not like the 2006 hymnal published by the ELCA, the name of which escapes me.

All of the Lutheran hymnals in English are based at least in part on The Common Service, which was an adaptation of the text of the American (Protestant Episcopal) Book of Common Prayer for Lutheran use, so the public domain 1917 Evangelical Lutheran Hymnary published by the ELS, and the 1941 Lutheran Hymnal published by LCMS, which is still in use in some LCMS and WELS parishes (and possibly some Methodist ones - I noticed it was being sold on Cokesbury alongside the 1989 Methodist hymnal, which I am not a huge fan of compared to its 1965 predecessor, and Cokesbury is known for being a Methodist-oriented vendor of ecclesiastical supplies; they sell very useful reversible stoles, a green and violet stole and a red and white stole, which are useful for field work and chaplaincy, although I regret the lack of reversible stoles in black, gold, blue and rose, which would provide a full set of liturgical colors and also meet the needs of Lutherans and Anglicans who use Sarum Blue in Advent as well as those who use blue on Marian feasts, but it is a Methodist supply house after all, and expecting a complete set of colors in inexpensive reversible stoles is obviously unrealistic).

Of the historic Lutheran hymnals I have seen, the most idiosyncratic and interesting was from the 1940s, published by the Augustana Synod, which is near and dear to me as a Swedish American, in part because by Morfar spent most of his career with them, and then with the LCA, retiring around the same time as ELCA came to be.

And I have a deep affinity for the LCMS as I spent much of my childhood as a member of that church and spent most of my school years in an LCMS parochial school. Those were some happy times.

By the way, here is an interesting link on the history of Lutheran hymnals that I just stumbled across: Holy Art Thou: The Service Book and Hymnal (1958)

 

[The Liturgist]

One thing that kept me in the confessional Lutheran church when my kids were young was I was really impressed with WELS Christian education, from the Lutheran day schools(K-8)and Sunday school and VBS. I taught both of the latter and volunteered at our Lutheran day school and was an aide at the preschool. I can't speak for other denominations. When I was a free church evangelical I was single and had no children although the church I attended did have a school(out on the West Coast)with a waiting list of two years. But I didn't pay as much attention to the school since I had no children at the time. I only know what I've seen in my current(WELS) church. But it is one of the strengths of the WELS (and LCMS which I was confirmed in)if the OP is has young children.
Not saying other denonminations don't have good Christian educations, just that that is the one of the strengths of confessional Lutheranism IMO.

Indeed, I had a wonderful time in LCMS grade school.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

All of the Lutheran hymnals in English are based at least in part on The Common Service, which was an adaptation of the text of the American (Protestant Episcopal) Book of Common Prayer for Lutheran use, so the public domain 1917 Evangelical Lutheran Hymnary published by the ELS, and the 1941 Lutheran Hymnal published by LCMS, which is still in use in some LCMS and WELS parishes (and possibly some Methodist ones - I noticed it was being sold on Cokesbury alongside the 1989 Methodist hymnal, which I am not a huge fan of compared to its 1965 predecessor, and Cokesbury is known for being a Methodist-oriented vendor of ecclesiastical supplies; they sell very useful reversible stoles, a green and violet stole and a red and white stole, which are useful for field work and chaplaincy, although I regret the lack of reversible stoles in black, gold, blue and rose, which would provide a full set of liturgical colors and also meet the needs of Lutherans and Anglicans who use Sarum Blue in Advent as well as those who use blue on Marian feasts, but it is a Methodist supply house after all, and expecting a complete set of colors in inexpensive reversible stoles is obviously unrealistic).

Speaking of Stoles and other vestments; have you tried "Catholic Liturgicals" in India? Good quality, reasonable price (even with air freight), fast service. We have been buying pretty much everything from Chalice Veils, to Chasubles, to complete sets of Paraments from them. BTW, they do have "Methodist Stoles. I will get you the link. BTW, they do custom stuff at little to no extra charge too.

 

[The Liturgist]

Speaking of Stoles and other vestments; have you tried "Catholic Liturgicals" in India? Good quality, reasonable price (even with air freight), fast service. We have been buying pretty much everything from Chalice Veils, to Chasubles, to complete sets of Paraments from them. BTW, they do have "Methodist Stoles. I will get you the link. BTW, they do custom stuff at little to no extra charge too.

Yes, they are a good vendor. Note that I don’t have any Cokesbury stoles; the only products I use from them are dress shirts with clerical collars which are a backup for when there are problems with my cassock, which right now my main cassock is having, due to overuse and an incident with a cactus, and my secondary cassock does not fit me well any more as I have lost a lot of weight, and the sleeves are too long, which really messes up the more formal Eucharistic vestments with maniples.

Another good Indian vestment house is Pulickal Brothers, which makes the gorgeous Syriac Orthodox vestments, which personally I regard as the most beautiful in the world (and they are cheap, compared to Byzantine vestments).

As I mentioned in my profile I have also had good luck with Liturgix for Eastern and Oriental Orthodox products, and MyVestments.com for Western Rite vestments; I particularly like their copes. On ebay there are some extremely talented Ukrainian and Polish tailors who offer unbeatable quality and pricing on Byzantine Rite material.

 

[LizaMarie]

Interestingly the Eastern Orthodox do not practice Eucharist Devotion in the Roman Catholic manner, despite also reserving the Eucharist, and having presanctified liturgies in Lent and Holy Week (but not on Good Friday), the text of which closely resembled that of the Roman Rite before Pope Pius XII rewrote the Presanctified Mass in 1955 (to the extent that the Eastern Orthodox credit Pope Gregory I, St. Gregory Dialogos as he is known to Orthodox Christians, also known to Catholics and high church Protestants as St. Gregory the Great, who had been a legate of the Roman Church to Constantinople for several years in his youth and was also responsible for sending St. Augustine of Canterbury to Britain to convert the Angles and provide leadership to the isolated British churches, and for providing civil government after the Ostrogoths sacked Rome around 600 and the secular authorities collapsed).

This is one of many instances where Lutheran and Orthodox practice is very similiar.

One of the more striking differences, indeed probably the only really striking difference, is like the Roman Catholic Church, most Lutherans believe that the Real Change of the bread and wine into the body and blood of our Lord occurs with the Words of Institution, whereas the Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox and the Church of the East believe it happens with the Epiklesis, a prayer invoking the Holy Spirit and asking the Holy Spirit to cause the gifts to become the Body and Blood of our Lord. In contrast to Roman Catholic liturgies, many Lutheran liturgies, but not all (for example, those in the 1978 Lutheran Book of Worship or the version of the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom used by the Ukrainian Lutheran Church) lack an epiklesis, whereas the ancient Liturgy of Addai and Mari, used by the Assyrian Church of the East, lacks a clearly defined institution narrative, and some Syriac Orthodox liturgies have an Institution Narrative that describes the Words of Institution rather than directly quoting them.

I really love Lutheranism, being of Scandinavian and German descent, although I also love Eastern and Oriental Orthodoxy, Anglicanism, the Church of the East, Methodism and Roman Catholicism. Basically any traditional church with a strong sacramental theology and a focus on liturgical beauty I am all over. Thus my great affection for the ecumenical Traditional Theology forum we have here on CF.com.

By the way, the LCMS publishes two of the best hymnals around, the 1941 Lutheran Hymnal and the 2006 Lutheran Service Book. I think @MarkRohfrietsch recently mentioned to me something about a new traditional language version of the Lutheran Service Book. There is a new WELS hymnal coming out soon which I am looking forward to adding to my collection. I also love the 1959 Lutheran Hymnal and Service Book, published by the ALC, which I believe is sadly disused, although if anyone knows of a parish still using it, I would like to hear about it; this hymnal was the first English language Lutheran hymnal to introduce the Litany of Peace, which is used at the start of the Eastern Orthodox Divine Liturgy and several other services. There is also a new WELS hymnal coming out which I am looking forward to adding to my collection. I also like the 1978 Lutheran Book of Worship but I did not like the 2006 hymnal published by the ELCA, the name of which escapes me.

All of the Lutheran hymnals in English are based at least in part on The Common Service, which was an adaptation of the text of the American (Protestant Episcopal) Book of Common Prayer for Lutheran use, so the public domain 1917 Evangelical Lutheran Hymnary published by the ELS, and the 1941 Lutheran Hymnal published by LCMS, which is still in use in some LCMS and WELS parishes (and possibly some Methodist ones - I noticed it was being sold on Cokesbury alongside the 1989 Methodist hymnal, which I am not a huge fan of compared to its 1965 predecessor, and Cokesbury is known for being a Methodist-oriented vendor of ecclesiastical supplies; they sell very useful reversible stoles, a green and violet stole and a red and white stole, which are useful for field work and chaplaincy, although I regret the lack of reversible stoles in black, gold, blue and rose, which would provide a full set of liturgical colors and also meet the needs of Lutherans and Anglicans who use Sarum Blue in Advent as well as those who use blue on Marian feasts, but it is a Methodist supply house after all, and expecting a complete set of colors in inexpensive reversible stoles is obviously unrealistic).

Of the historic Lutheran hymnals I have seen, the most idiosyncratic and interesting was from the 1940s, published by the Augustana Synod, which is near and dear to me as a Swedish American, in part because by Morfar spent most of his career with them, and then with the LCA, retiring around the same time as ELCA came to be.

And I have a deep affinity for the LCMS as I spent much of my childhood as a member of that church and spent most of my school years in an LCMS parochial school. Those were some happy times.

By the way, here is an interesting link on the history of Lutheran hymnals that I just stumbled across: Holy Art Thou: The Service Book and Hymnal (1958)

Yes I have noticed the similarity too between Lutheran and EO eucharist at least in some cases(never been to an EO divine liturgy yet)