Consider Paul and You Will Get Understanding

[BT]

……I never meant that it had no importance. Opps.. I know it came across that way,, but, I didn’t mean it!!


It’s a biblical word… …… It (scripture) is all useful, but it’s not all relevant to our task today.

I'm not sure I follow you on that. I'm thinking that if something is useful it is relevant. <- me

Do you eat shell fish? Pork?? Some christians there is some obsolete doctrine… All scripture is good for instruction in righteousness,,, not all of it is good for doctrine.

I eat shell fish as often as I can and I looooove pork. But I'm not a Jew and that was never written for me (this I think is your point). While we understand this we also understand that these rituals served a purpose. That purpose is still relevant for today.

Nor am I trying to split hairs, but…. Most of the gospels were written to and for Israel. Christ came in the flesh TO Israel… but there IS application in those scriptures for today, I hope I didn’t imply I thought otherwise.

Parts of the Gospels were dealing with Israel (I won't say written to since the Gospels are historical accounts, much different from the Epistles..). I think I understand what you are saying...

Christ sent Paul TO the gentiles, with a message… God the Father sent Christ TO Israel, with a message… Which message is specifically for US today?

Ack! Paul ministered to the gentiles but also to the Jews. God sent Christ TO Israel?? I hope you are talking geographically, otherwise... Ack!

But when you apply Mark with the very next thing that happened…

Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.​

…It appears baptism was pretty important.

Aye! Baptism is very important, but it doesn't save (I think you know that).

Anyway good discussion...

 

[@@Paul@@]

Ack! Paul ministered to the gentiles but also to the Jews. God sent Christ TO Israel?? I hope you are talking geographically, otherwise... Ack!

No i'm talking people.

Mat 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
Mat 10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Mat 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Act 10:36 The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all
Rom 15:8 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:

Rom 9:3-5 KJV
(3) For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:
(4) Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;
(5) Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.
​

......Christ (Who was sent TO Israel) mentioned many times being sent BY the Father:

Joh 5:37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.
Joh 20:21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.​

........and that Christ specifically sent Paul with a message TO the Gentiles.

Act 13:46-47 KJV
(46) Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.
(47) For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth.​

I just don't think the message which was sent TO israel, is exactly the same as was sent to US today... Otherwise we should all:

Mat 19:21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.​

 

[BT]

No i'm talking people.

Mat 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
Mat 10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Mat 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Act 10:36 The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all
Rom 15:8 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:

Rom 9:3-5 KJV
(3) For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:
(4) Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;
(5) Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.

​

......Christ (Who was sent TO Israel) mentioned many times being sent BY the Father:

Joh 5:37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.

Joh 20:21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.
​

........and that Christ specifically sent Paul with a message TO the Gentiles.

Act 13:46-47 KJV

(46) Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.


(47) For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth.





​

Ok I see where you are at. If you really want to understand this let me make a suggestion for your personal study. Study the difference between the "Kingdom of Heaven" and the "Kingdom of God". I think that will really help you clear this up.

​

I just don't think the message which was sent TO israel, is exactly the same as was sent to US today... Otherwise we should all:

Mat 19:21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.​

Uh oh you took that one out of context. But I'll let you get away with it .

I'll only say.... Who says we shouldn't? There are some who believe that this is exactly what we ought to do......

 

[@@Paul@@]

Ok I see where you are at. If you really want to understand this let me make a suggestion for your personal study. Study the difference between the "Kingdom of Heaven" and the "Kingdom of God". I think that will really help you clear this up.

I don't see the connection here... one is the promised earthly kingdom TO Israel and one is the entire kingdom of God, which includes ALL of God's creation...

The Kingdom of God can be synonymous for Kingdom of Heaven BUT the Kingdom of Heaven can never fully be synonymous for the Kingdom of God......

Is the gospel of the Kingdom of Heaven the same as the gospel of the Kingdom of God?

 

[BT]

I don't see the connection here... one is the promised earthly kingdom TO Israel and one is the entire kingdom of God, which includes ALL of God's creation...

The Kingdom of God can be synonymous for Kingdom of Heaven BUT the Kingdom of Heaven can never fully be synonymous for the Kingdom of God......

Is the gospel of the Kingdom of Heaven the same as the gospel of the Kingdom of God?

Yeah you're getting on to it... What you have to ask yourself is this..

Since, the kingdom was offerred to the Jews but they rejected it..what did that force God to do (force is not a good word here...). What if the Jews had accepted? Would all the Gentiles then be instantly sent to hell? How would Christ's blood then be shed? Would there be no salvation for us? Woohoo you're getting into some deep theology now brother. I love this stuff

You getting the picture? Was the offer acceptable, and if not then was God lying (God forbid, it's impossible). Was the offer therefore not sincere? Yeehaw I love this stuff.. Study the two kingdoms and I guarantee you'll come out the other end with a REAL understanding of God!!! Enjoy!

 

[@@Paul@@]

Yeah you're getting on to it... What you have to ask yourself is this..

Since, the kingdom was offerred to the Jews but they rejected it..what did that force God to do (force is not a good word here...). What if the Jews had accepted? Would all the Gentiles then be instantly sent to hell? How would Christ's blood then be shed? Would there be no salvation for us? Woohoo you're getting into some deep theology now brother. I love this stuff

You getting the picture? Was the offer acceptable, and if not then was God lying (God forbid, it's impossible). Was the offer therefore not sincere? Yeehaw I love this stuff.. Study the two kingdoms and I guarantee you'll come out the other end with a REAL understanding of God!!! Enjoy!

Thanks for the insite BT...

I believe the offer of the kingdom was valid at least until Acts 26..

Act 26:7 Unto which promise our twelve tribes, instantly serving God day and night, hope to come. For which hope's sake, king Agrippa, I am accused of the Jews.​

If anyone's prayers are to be answered, It would be Jesus Christ's right? maybe His last one?

 

[AVBunyan]

A little food for thought since we are on teh subject of Paul and for those who may not have seen some of this before:


The Uniqueness and the Importance of the Apostle Paul


I believe vehemently that the most neglected truths today are those from the Apostle of Paul to the Gentiles.


1. Paul was given the gospel – I Cor. 15:1-5; Rom. 16:25; II Tim. 2:8.

2. Paul as given his revelation directly from the Lord Jesus Christ himself – Gal. 1:16, 17; Acts 26:16; II Cor. 12:7; Gal. 2:2

3. Paul fulfilled the word of God – Col. 1:25.

4. Paul was the only apostle who told you to follow him – I Cor. 4:16; I Cor. 11:1; Phil. 3:17; II Thess. 3:9; Phil. 4:9.

5. Paul was the only one in the scriptures who told you to study –II Tim. 2:15.

6. Paul was the only apostle in the scriptures who told you that if you wanted to understand all things you had to consider what he said – II Tim. 2:7.

7. Paul was the only one who told you to rightly divide the scriptures II Tim. 2:15.

8. Paul was the only apostle who was given the mystery, which was hid to others – Rom. 16:25; Eph. 1:9; Eph. 3:3, 4; Eph. 6:19.

9. Paul was the first apostle to learn that Christ died for sins - I Cor. 15:1-5.

10. Paul was the first to speak of being in Christ and Christ in you - Acts 24:24; Col. 1:27.

11. Paul was the first to reveal that one was justified by the faith of Jesus Christ – Gal. 2:16.

12. Paul was the only apostle who said men would be judged according to his gospel – Rom. 2:16.

13. Paul was the one where you learn the purpose of scripture – II Tim. 3:16,17.

14. Paul was the only man who told you what the root of all evil was – I Tim. 6:10.

15. Paul was one of the two apostles that the Lord appeared to after His final resurrection - Acts 26:16.

16. Paul was given the truth of the body of Christ – Eph. 1:22, 23.

Now, with the above truths – how is it that so many want to relegate Paul to the back seat when it comes to doctrine and truths for this age. It appears that many churches think that the “words in red” are more important than Paul’s. It appears to many that Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John carries more weight than Paul when it come to truths regarding their lives for today. Paul wrote 14 books of the NT but then one runs to James for authority regarding justification. Many go to John’s epistles or the Gospels as the standard which to judge as to whether a person is saved or not!!!

I find it amazing that the least read portion of scripture when it comes to salvation and one’s position in Christ are the first three chapters of Ephesians. Paul tells us about how we are to behave in the body of Christ and yet many go elsewhere to get these truths. It is Paul that reveals the mystery of Christ and yet many go to the Gospels as their authority regarding this matter.

We are told to consider Paul and it appears that when it comes to the major doctrines he is the last one considered – strange thing. It is though the devil doesn’t want Paul to be studied. And you wonder why the church today is in such a mess.

Now, don’t leave this post saying I’m saying that the only books to read are Paul’s – don’t you dare do that for I believe II Tim. 3:16,17; I Cor. 10:11; Rom. 15:4. I am in I Chronicles now in my daily scripture reading. My preacher is in the Gospel of John in the Sunday AM service and I Samuel in one of the Sunday PM service – so don’t go accusing me of neglecting the rest of scripture or not believing it all. Don’t you dare say I am elevating Paul to the fourth member of the trinity over Christ. I know some of you – don’t misrepresent what I’ve put down here.

I am saying this:

2 Tim 2:7 Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things.

Do you want understanding in all things – I’m assuming you do – then consider Paul first – he got the latest instructions directly from the Lord Jesus Christ himself.

Now, you have a blessed day now!

 

[BT]

AV let me ask you this. If I were a Christian in .... I dunno say... Africa, and I was a Christian because some missionary came by and gave me a copy of Gideons (KJV) Gospels (the little Bible that they give out with just the 4 books). Let's say that I get saved through the reading of the Bible and the instructions of the missionary. So I'm saved, k? Now the missionary doesn't give me any other Bible and goes back to the USA. If no missionaries come back to my part of the rainforest....what then? Would you say that I would be able to have a productive ministry with just this 4 book Bible? Do you think I could see others saved and mabey even start a little church (though I may not call it a church). Are the Gospels sufficient for this?


Just curious

 

[AVBunyan]

AV let me ask you this. If I were a Christian in .... I dunno say... Africa, and I was a Christian because some missionary came by and gave me a copy of Gideons (KJV) Gospels (the little Bible that they give out with just the 4 books). Let's say that I get saved through the reading of the Bible and the instructions of the missionary. So I'm saved, k? Now the missionary doesn't give me any other Bible and goes back to the USA. If no missionaries come back to my part of the rainforest....what then? Would you say that I would be able to have a productive ministry with just this 4 book Bible? Do you think I could see others saved and mabey even start a little church (though I may not call it a church). Are the Gospels sufficient for this?


Just curious

Good scenario - this might surprise you but if all the missionary left was 5 chapters of Matthew I believe God would use it. I believe the providence of God takes over here, brother. Will they have complete understanding of all things? Probably not. Wouldl God reveal himself - oh yea!!! Could they have a church - oh yea!!! Could it grow and people get saved? Oh yea!!! Could they have a productive ministry? Oh yea - they have the words of God to read and cherish. I believe the Gospels would be sufficient for that scenario because that was how God left them and God would use it according to His will for His glory.

Brother - I'm willing to be somewhere in some prison there are or were some folks with a few pages of scripture only and they probably thought they were in heaven and God blessed what they had!!!

God bless

 

[BT]

Good scenario - this might surprise you but if all the missionary left was 5 chapters of Matthew I believe God would use it. I believe the providence of God takes over here, brother. Will they have complete understanding of all things? Probably not. Wouldl God reveal himself - oh yea!!! Could they have a church - oh yea!!! Could it grow and people get saved? Oh yea!!! Could they have a productive ministry? Oh yea - they have the words of God to read and cherish. I believe the Gospels would be sufficient for that scenario because that was how God left them and God would use it according to His will for His glory.

Brother - I'm willing to be somewhere in some prison there are or were some folks with a few pages of scripture only and they probably thought they were in heaven and God blessed what they had!!!

God bless

We are on the same page!

For the last part about the prison I always say that that scenario is why I memorize scripture. If they burn my Bible and put me in jail the Word will survive in my heart and mind and will be preached!