Conservatives Disenfranchised?

[Letalis]

This was posted in the Discuss Rules forum, but it was suggested to me to post this in the conservative congregations on CF.

Many conservatives have indicated they feel disenfranchised and unwelcome on CF.

What do you see as the problem, and what improvements could be made to address this? Is the problem in rule enforcement, policies, or is the community itself hostile to conservative viewpoints?

This thread is seeking input from conservative members.

Thanks.

Regards,
Letalis

 

[MrJim]

http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=7259652

Yeah, that one is coming along so well

 

[GreenMunchkin]

Hey, Letalis Long time no see

I'm not an active member anymore, but I will say I actually don't feel particularly welcome and being here isn't very fun, or comforting. It's perhaps partly to do with the new design being terribly bewlidering, but the post in your initial thread calling conservatives "evil right-wingers" is fairly representative of why I don't really want to be here. Because someone even commented on it, and nothing was done. Were the situation reversed, it would have gotten lively.

That other thread seems to have covered politics more than faith, and the two don't go hand in hand necessarily. I don't know the first thing about the politics forums, but yeah, when I see that certain people are now blue As, I panic a little. Not because they're liberal but because they wear their conservative-Christian derision and hatred on their sleeves. Were it reversed, again, and were there to be any actively anti-liberal Christians in the upper echelons, the fall-out would be massive. As it has been in the past. That's when it becomes disparate.

I suppose it's things like that that set the tone. If people who you know loathe you because of your theological stance are the ones in charge, given they - ostensibly - represent the site (or else, why would they be in those positions?) it follows that the site in general holds to the same views.

It's odd, actually. 8 months away from this place puts it all into perspective, and the distance shows you how far from Christianity it all is. The problem is, there are people on both "sides" who intentionally engineer the badness. Blatant trollery and baiting are rife, and some of the most active trolls are now in leadership positions.

I fully expect your threads have already been linked at ~e~ and any conservative who has weighed in is being lambasted and having 7 shades kicked out of them, and that's also part of the problem, I think. Conservatives simply aren't as free to speak up. Of course we have the physical and technical ability to, but the idea of being discussed and laughted at over at ~e~ is horrid and painful. I really believe that ~e~ makes this a crueller site but it's the culture that's developed and I can't see there's any feasible way of dialing it back. Short of us all - all - getting on our knees and asking God how to better represent Him here, anyway. Somehow at CF whether you subscribe to the Liberal or Conservative label has become the litmus test as to whether you're a Real Christian TM or not, as if that's more important than your conduct; as if it's more important than how loving you are. There are people on both sides who are absolutely vicious; there are also people on both who are absolutely beautiful, and are so willing to extend Christ's love to anyone and everyone - regardless of their label. The thing is, though, of the 4 or 5 actively mean people I can think of on both sides, only liberal ones are in leadership. Rightly or wrongly, that really says a lot.

If there's balance in the leadership, and if there's balance within the mod ranks, the rest will sort itself out. At the moment, there doesn't seem to be a balance. I don't think anything I'm saying is at all helpful, and am sorry for that. It really is that the inner workings of CF just seem so ugly and unnecessary now. When you're embroiled in it and exposed to it day in day out, it becomes so very important. I remember losing sleep over all of it. But the problem with CF is it doesn't put God first. And it really doesn't. Liberals and conservatives differ in a trillion ways, but acknowledging how indescribably blessed we are to have been given salvation is what we have in common, and that's huge. Biggest thing there is. And yet, despite that, for years now, we've been battling over these inane labels - labels which, incidentally, probably mean different things to every single one of us. Crazy.

I'm rambling dreadfully. Am sorry. Just thinking aloud, I guess. Conservative Christianity isn't wecome in the world nowadays and it just feels like CF mirrors the world. Like, I really don't like being called an evil right-winger and that it'd be oxymoronic to call someone compassionate and conservative. It's hurtful, and it's untrue. And the "God Debate" is so pervasive now, we can hear that anywhere, but we shouldn't have to see cruelties like that here. I still believe CF should be a haven for Christians. All of us, I mean. Conservatives shouldn't receive preferential treatment, but neither should anyone else, and at the moment, it seems like they do.

Anyway. Have talked a lot without actually saying anything so I'll stop wittering on now. I guess ultimately, the responsibility is with all of us individually to glorify Jesus. If we were doing that, none of this would even be an issue. But, tis easily said; much much harder to actually do.

Sorry again for talking so much

 

[£amb]

I gave my thoughts...well, actually it was my pouring of the soul on the other thread MrJim posted.

I hadn't been in this forum for quite some time. After all the hell that happened about a year ago in this forum, my heart was torn in half by the things that were said from anybody who opposed conservatives. There are alot of double standards that go on, and that's why I feel partly unwelcome.

I've been sticking to the Life Stages forum mostly. Really don't get around too much on this site. Tired of all the liberal against conservative junk, and Catholic against Orthodox against Protestant junk.

Also, Green did a much better job at explaining pretty much how I feel.

 

[nzguy]

Yeah.. liberal Christianity is the way Christianity is going around the world. Belief in the bible completely, as God's Word from Gen to Revelation is either only tentatively believed or some books are seen as only myth or symbolism.

As the world gets harsher and morals are put to the side, it becomes more difficult for Christians to cling to the Word of God because most of the people of this world don't agree with this.

Especially in the Western world.. I mean in New Zealand, many people have said.. to be a New Zealander is to be liberal.

Thing is.. the labels we give like Conservative/Liberal.. Fundamentalist.. Orthodox.. Charismatic/Non-Charismatic etc... they also tend to push people away from the Word of God.. because what a person says might be straight from scripture.. and in context.. but because they have a label.. the scripture in context is ignored.

 

[dead2self]

Disenfranchised...I suppose one might call it that. Or perhaps we could say reviled, ridiculed, loathed. I am new here, but when I got here and read the rules and intros etc. I got the distinct impression that this forum was for Christians to get together. There many forums devoted solely to Christians for discussion, with rules clearly stating that unbelievers are not to post there entering into the discussions. Many forums have been set up for unbelivers to discuss issues. To my disgust, I soon realised that the "Christian only" forums are actually a place for unbelievers to turn almost every topic into a debate about the existence of God or the accuracy of the Bible. On top of that, nominal Christians with apostate or heretical views come in and, contrary to forum rules, further pick apart any statements of historicaly accepted Biblical truths. Simply enforcing the clearly posted rules, deleting offending posts and suspending and/or banning repeat offenders would vastly improve this site.

On top of these blatant violations that are mostly aimed at more Biblically centered conservatives, you then have the flat out conservative bashing by liberals. One member, for instance, has a quote in her signature that states that conservative Christian is an oxymoron. When I called her on that she defended it saying that a conservative can be compassionate, but if he does he ceases to be conservative. I ask the mods here, what would happen if I made similar statements about liberals? Sadly I strongly suspect the reprecussions from that would be severe.

This could be a really great place, there are some wonderful people here. But unfortunately, a lack of rule enforcement, and a lack of respect love and compassion between Chrisitans here keep this site from reaching it's potential.

Rather than being a place where the unregnerate and apostate question and ridicule the foundational truths of our religion, this could be a wonderful place of encouragement. A place where when you start off with the presuppositions that scripture is infallible, inerrant and inspired and that doctrines based on that are true you will not be ridiculed as a fundy nutcase.

Peter Marshall once said "unless we stand for something, we shall fall for anything" in 1947. How those words ring true today. While the rules here nominaly mean we stand for something, the reality is that in practice, this community stands for nothing. There is no rallying to the defence of Biblical truth by more than a few members. There is very little calling out of apostasy and heresy here. Becasue of this, we have fallen for the unbiblical concepts of pluralism and inclusiveness. We have taken tolerance to mean accpetance. We have taken love to mean making others feel good rather tahn doing what is best for them.

 

[nzguy]

too true dead2self..

in the end I guess this is an internet site.. and because of that it becomes more of a place for putting your opinion forward without reading anyone elses input on it.

I am guilty of doing that in here..

But yeah.. it is just an internet site

The thing I will say tho that I think is why this forum has trouble.. is that it is ecumenical..

in the name of ecumenism ALOT of things get watered down.. denied and filtered.

I see unity in a Body of Christ as unity in a local assembly. Realistic, achievable, scriptural.

If you want unity in the people Kingdom of God.. which is probably what this site is aiming for, being ecumenical.. then this is an almost impossible, monumental task that I don't think should ever really be a realistic objective.

But then they probably don't have that objective..

anyway,

ecumenisim.. in my opinion is opposed to the notions of local churches being the foundations and pillars of truth.. and wants to have unity in the Kingdom of God at the expense of real truths.

 

[SiderealExalt]

My only advice is. Do not let the importance of factionalism(or to use a "nicer" word, community) override the capacity to build social bridges.

 

[Spudgrandma]

I left this part of the forum about a year ago when we were basically told by the actions of those in charge of CF that we were welcome to come here and more than welcome to donate to the site, but we were not under any circumstance to speak the truth in any way shape or form. When others were allowed to come into what we thought was a safe haven and ridicule and call names and preach their particular beliefs and if any one here dared to contradict, the Conservative Christian was the one that was told they could not speak, in what they thought was their own forum. They had to just sit back and let the untruths be told and do nothing. Well, I'm sorry but there is really no point in being here if you are listening to unbiblical teaching and can do or say nothing to point it out.

If those who are in control of CF want it to be a site where anyone but Christians can say whatever they want, then I guess you have succeed. If that is going to continue to be the case, then be honest about it and take the name Christian off and call it something that better describes what it is.

So to the OP, yes I feel disenfranchised and totally unwelcome here and in most of what we now call CF.

I continue to hope that CF will become the site that I joined once again, but I'm really beginning to think that is just wishful thinking.

 

[Nadiine]

God bless you Spud.
I know that the way you and I operate here on CF are different, I'm heavy into tedious debate & discussion on issues (ie. argument lol) and that is not your style.
But I will say that our goal is the same, to proclaim the truth of the Living God as scripture reveals. That hasn't happened here for nearly 1 year or more. & I've seen more confusion than anything come from it all where 2 opposite messages are going out under 1 Christian name tag.

I'm adding a link to the fundamental forum where this thread question is posted so conservatives here can compare replies of others who feel the same way.
The link also has my own posts on it which speak for me and others who aren't at CF anymore; they go back into the history of these complaints we've had for a year now - so anyone can check them out from the past members (who........ have left CF... or been banned).

http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=7260366&page=4

 

[NorrinRadd]

Hmm. Semi-random observation:

In this thread and the "parallel passage" in the Fundy Zone, we have a lot of Conservative Christians expressing the perception that CF "disses" them.

Meanwhile, in the Forums Closing thread, there seems to be a general consensus that the opposite is true: CF is persecuting liberals and non-Christians.

 

[desmalia]

Hmm. Semi-random observation:

In this thread and the "parallel passage" in the Fundy Zone, we have a lot of Conservative Christians expressing the perception that CF "disses" them.

Meanwhile, in the Forums Closing thread, there seems to be a general consensus that the opposite is true: CF is persecuting liberals and non-Christians.

Yep, something really funky going on, no question.

 

[Nadiine]

Hmm. Semi-random observation:

In this thread and the "parallel passage" in the Fundy Zone, we have a lot of Conservative Christians expressing the perception that CF "disses" them.

Meanwhile, in the Forums Closing thread, there seems to be a general consensus that the opposite is true: CF is persecuting liberals and non-Christians.

I have a hard time believing liberals & nonChristians are dissed when the site has been pushing for ecuminism & opening up the Unorthodox sections more and more and allowing the Unorthodox/non's to post in more areas now.
I've been reading JW's who start their own threads in Theology areas teaching things about scripture etc. Conservatives argued against that.
They also argued against nonChristians being allowed on staff - instead, we have pagans overseeing Christians on their own site.


Um, ya something's wrong w/ this picture. I consider the Exodus of Conservatives over the past year to be evidence.... however, I don't know the #'s on liberals/nonChristians leaving.
I wouldn't doubt that their's might be different reasons that have more to do w/ policy/rules or the site update glitches?? I dunno.

I know I have heard nonChristians complain about the setup or format of sections that they disliked. Ie. certain subforums being placed in "outreach", or the fact that they couldn't post in some sections, etc.

But with that said, it's supposed to be a CHRISTIAN site (by name anyways) .. so Christians should have the advantage on their own site.
I'd expect Atheists to have advantage on an Atheist site too (and I'd expect them NOT to put Christians on their staff to oversee them rather than complain that they be forced to include me on staff!).

You cannot keep a Christian site with no safe areas for Christians to congregate & fellowship & discuss spiritual issues w/out continual harrassement by nonChristians, esp. the hardcore atheists (& whoever else with axes to grind) who make Christian attack a hobby.

 

[Nadiine]

K - well...... now that I read the threads...

The problems won't stop. The problem is in the lack of defining Christianity in the first place. We do more debating against people that take Christian icons who preach another gospel as far as I can see.
Lee isn't willing to address that as far as I can see, he thinks it's nonChristians?

THAT is why most of the infighting is going on. I don't believe nonChristians are the problem here (at least the majority of it). The problem is the fighting of contrary messages against Christianity (from self proclaiming Christians) including the refusal of accepting the Holy Bible as God's word of Truth to man. Change that & you'll have a better foundation here.

& there has been alot of flaming going on in theology areas, it's gotten alot uglier imho and I stopped going into some sections becuz of it. They're just hostile and pointless.

I still believe that if people's subscriptions to CF continued as usual, and the conservatives didn't bail ship, Lee wouldn't be bothering with this at all. This is what he wanted the site to be - opened up with everybody sharing & conversing... maybe he's seeing unity can't actually happen.
(the bible proves true yet again!)

 

[Nadiine]

Hey, Letalis Long time no see

I'm not an active member anymore, but I will say I actually don't feel particularly welcome and being here isn't very fun, or comforting. It's perhaps partly to do with the new design being terribly bewlidering, but the post in your initial thread calling conservatives "evil right-wingers" is fairly representative of why I don't really want to be here. Because someone even commented on it, and nothing was done. Were the situation reversed, it would have gotten lively.

That other thread seems to have covered politics more than faith, and the two don't go hand in hand necessarily. I don't know the first thing about the politics forums, but yeah, when I see that certain people are now blue As, I panic a little. Not because they're liberal but because they wear their conservative-Christian derision and hatred on their sleeves. Were it reversed, again, and were there to be any actively anti-liberal Christians in the upper echelons, the fall-out would be massive. As it has been in the past. That's when it becomes disparate.

I suppose it's things like that that set the tone. If people who you know loathe you because of your theological stance are the ones in charge, given they - ostensibly - represent the site (or else, why would they be in those positions?) it follows that the site in general holds to the same views.

It's odd, actually. 8 months away from this place puts it all into perspective, and the distance shows you how far from Christianity it all is. The problem is, there are people on both "sides" who intentionally engineer the badness. Blatant trollery and baiting are rife, and some of the most active trolls are now in leadership positions.

I fully expect your threads have already been linked at ~e~ and any conservative who has weighed in is being lambasted and having 7 shades kicked out of them, and that's also part of the problem, I think. Conservatives simply aren't as free to speak up. Of course we have the physical and technical ability to, but the idea of being discussed and laughted at over at ~e~ is horrid and painful. I really believe that ~e~ makes this a crueller site but it's the culture that's developed and I can't see there's any feasible way of dialing it back. Short of us all - all - getting on our knees and asking God how to better represent Him here, anyway. Somehow at CF whether you subscribe to the Liberal or Conservative label has become the litmus test as to whether you're a Real Christian TM or not, as if that's more important than your conduct; as if it's more important than how loving you are. There are people on both sides who are absolutely vicious; there are also people on both who are absolutely beautiful, and are so willing to extend Christ's love to anyone and everyone - regardless of their label. The thing is, though, of the 4 or 5 actively mean people I can think of on both sides, only liberal ones are in leadership. Rightly or wrongly, that really says a lot.

If there's balance in the leadership, and if there's balance within the mod ranks, the rest will sort itself out. At the moment, there doesn't seem to be a balance. I don't think anything I'm saying is at all helpful, and am sorry for that. It really is that the inner workings of CF just seem so ugly and unnecessary now. When you're embroiled in it and exposed to it day in day out, it becomes so very important. I remember losing sleep over all of it. But the problem with CF is it doesn't put God first. And it really doesn't. Liberals and conservatives differ in a trillion ways, but acknowledging how indescribably blessed we are to have been given salvation is what we have in common, and that's huge. Biggest thing there is. And yet, despite that, for years now, we've been battling over these inane labels - labels which, incidentally, probably mean different things to every single one of us. Crazy.

I'm rambling dreadfully. Am sorry. Just thinking aloud, I guess. Conservative Christianity isn't wecome in the world nowadays and it just feels like CF mirrors the world. Like, I really don't like being called an evil right-winger and that it'd be oxymoronic to call someone compassionate and conservative. It's hurtful, and it's untrue. And the "God Debate" is so pervasive now, we can hear that anywhere, but we shouldn't have to see cruelties like that here. I still believe CF should be a haven for Christians. All of us, I mean. Conservatives shouldn't receive preferential treatment, but neither should anyone else, and at the moment, it seems like they do.

Anyway. Have talked a lot without actually saying anything so I'll stop wittering on now. I guess ultimately, the responsibility is with all of us individually to glorify Jesus. If we were doing that, none of this would even be an issue. But, tis easily said; much much harder to actually do.

Sorry again for talking so much

QFT!
Except I do disagree with 1 thing - preaching the truth of the gospel DOES bring conflict by nature. It's inescapable & it doesn't mean we failed or sinned. God's word is absolute and truth counters all else.
Jesus encountered the arguments & hatred Himself; the difference as I view it is in the setting.
In real life, you discuss someplace (or preach) and walk away - in forums, you're back and forth every day at the same place w/ many people - whichever side a person is on will be what they promote each time they return. So it becomes a battle back and forth by nature of the designated place you meet.

The issue becomes HOW we battle - do we resort to ad hom flames & hatred? Or do we stay true to the message - using love or rebuke when necessary? (those who take issue w/ rebuke will find any rebuke by a Christian as "hatred or hostile" when it actually isn't).

Anyways, yes, nearly every post we make in defense of our positions or feelings are mocked on those antiChristian sites - and yes, some of the staff here are members of those very sites and some even join in on the ridicule. I've seen the posts myself.
AND I DON'T CARE EITHER. The only way you can be friends with people like that is if you recant your faith! which is not going to happen.
So, Let them - God is my defender, and He keeps tally & will judge every hateful word they type out. The same was done to Jesus, I don't expect any less from enemies of the cross. And it won't stop me from proclaiming truth of God.

If this site falls apart, fine, I'll go take the message elsewhere. God is not defeated if CF is gone. I'll witness Him when and where He takes me.... until He takes me.

(sorry, turned more into a pep rally than agreement w/ your post - great post)

 

[MrJim]

(sorry, turned more into a pep rally than agreement w/ your post - great post)

 

[Nadiine]

Sorry, I get all fired up when I think of God's truth and the ministry He allows us to be involved in... using us to witness.

Not that I claim to be a polished professional that God is always proud of --
that's for sure -- but I love and stand by His Word and who He is.

 

[MrJim]

Sorry, I get all fired up when I think of God's truth and the ministry He allows us to be involved in... using us to witness.

Not that I claim to be a polished professional that God is always proud of --
that's for sure -- but I love and stand by His Word and who He is.

Ha, never saw SuperBanana before

 

[kasprinkle]

I used to lurk here and in other rooms on CF for a long time, then started posting some, especially in the Women's Room. I have been APPALLED at what passes for Christianity there, especially when some of us DARED say we would be upset if our husbands or boyfriends watched or read hard core porn! The huge majority of women could not see what was wrong with it...sigh...

Recently I have been posting at a relatively new and much smaller site where I have found spirited yet CIVIL debate, great insights and wonderful fellowship. the site is
dailycrossesforum.com

Come check it out!

 

[Simon_Templar]

The new CF wants to bring Christians together and to that end they have really done away with the ability to define who is and is not Christian because this was seen as to divisive. On the one hand you will inevitably get that kind of thing between catholics and protestants, between charismatics and non-charismatics and between many of the protestant denominations etc. On the other... once you stop effectively defining christianity, you have already failed in bringing Christians together.

Its like saying, we're going to have a forum that unites americans around our common patriotism... but we're going to allow anyone in, and so long as they claim to be american, no one can question them, even if they clearly are not, and even if they clearly hate america...

You can't bring a group together, when you refuse to define who is actually in the group, and you allow people who are not part of the group to pretend to be and to subvert what the actual group believes.

Personally, I don't bother feeling disenfranchised because I guess I have a thick skin and I just don't care if people want to plot and scheme or gossip about me on an internet site... I rather think that is more of a sad commentary on their existence than anything else.. and if anything mildly amusing.