Conservative Democrats,Liberal Republicans and a true Third Party

[Targaryen]

I've been kind of curious lately into the super polarization of the American political landscape now to ask a legit question that hopefully will provide a good debate, but no left/right bashing.

So what happened to the conservative wing in the Democratic Party? Southern Dems used to be some of the most conservative politicians in the US.

What happened to the Liberal wing of the Republican Party? The US had a few strong Republican presidents and VP's that were more in line with today's Democratic party then the conservative juggernaut in the GOP. Heck, Rockefeller Republican used to mean a liberal Republican.

Also why is the US so reluctant to get a strong third party going that could challenge both the Dems and the GOP on a national basis. The independant,third party vote is so split that it has little impact on elections.

 

[drjean]

IMO it all moved "left" and the Republican party now IS the liberal wing of the Republican party...and the TEA party is trying to be the conservative wing of the Republican view???


I recall when most all elected politicians were pretty much "center" left or right a bit but "center"... that's gone, imo. Center is way far left now?

 

[ThatRobGuy]

I've been kind of curious lately into the super polarization of the American political landscape now to ask a legit question that hopefully will provide a good debate, but no left/right bashing.

So what happened to the conservative wing in the Democratic Party? Southern Dems used to be some of the most conservative politicians in the US.

That's pretty much a fallacy, Southern Democrats of old (or as they've also been called, Dixiecrats) were never conservative in terms of the constitution.

The whole notion of the supposed "party switch" was just a false debating point for people who wanted to deny responsibility for the actions of their party. (not trying to bash, just providing info).


When looking at the polarity of the political spectrum, it's really not about "liberal vs. conservative" scale anymore...those are terms that change with the times so when you base your views on those two terms, you're always aiming at a moving target. The appropriate scale people should be looking at is the "anarchy vs. totalitarianism" scale.

What happened to the Liberal wing of the Republican Party? The US had a few strong Republican presidents and VP's that were more in line with today's Democratic party then the conservative juggernaut in the GOP. Heck, Rockefeller Republican used to mean a liberal Republican.

They're still out there, they're often referred to as Rhino Republicans now (fiscally conservative, socially liberal)...Arnold was the probably the most recent example of this, although, we don't see too many at the federal level.

Also why is the US so reluctant to get a strong third party going that could challenge both the Dems and the GOP on a national basis. The independant, third party vote is so split that it has little impact on elections.

I don't think reluctance has anything to do with it, 3rd parties simply need another outlet in order to raise awareness of their platforms as trying to compete with the two major parties via TV market is a losing battle since the two major parties have existing relationships with practically all major networks...it's not as if you'll get a show on CNN glorifying the views of the green party. You see it slightly on FOX with shows like RedEye which is a libertarian show...however, if you'll notice by the name of the show, it's not exactly on at an ideal timeslot for reaching a large audience.



As I've seen in numerous other threads, if 3rd parties really want to make a go of it, they need to drive their campaigns via social media (which is free or cheap) rather than trying to beat the D's and R's at their game...the D's & R's have too much money at their disposal and you're not going to beat them in a money game like TV advertising.

 

[mafwons]

I've been kind of curious lately into the super polarization of the American political landscape now to ask a legit question that hopefully will provide a good debate, but no left/right bashing.

So what happened to the conservative wing in the Democratic Party? Southern Dems used to be some of the most conservative politicians in the US.

What happened to the Liberal wing of the Republican Party? The US had a few strong Republican presidents and VP's that were more in line with today's Democratic party then the conservative juggernaut in the GOP. Heck, Rockefeller Republican used to mean a liberal Republican.

Also why is the US so reluctant to get a strong third party going that could challenge both the Dems and the GOP on a national basis. The independant,third party vote is so split that it has little impact on elections.

Both parties more or less work for the same ends, that is the consolidation of power at the federal level. Look at the last election we had a couple of republicrats running, yeah Romneybgot all conservativw in 2008 when he saw presidential possibilities on the horizon, but that's just a game politicians play.

A third party does not and will not have the support of those who control the pursestrings unless it is a Ross Perot type thing used to split another party but with no meaningful advancement of change.

A peoples party would be good (not in the sense people is used in the peoples republic of so and such) but the people work 40-70 hours a week have soccer games and spelling bees and the wife works the other shift and we gotta keep up with the jones and who cares about politics arises. Best case scenerio those harried people chose a hard line and stick to it so don't mess with their cherished repulacrats.

 

[Creech]

That's pretty much a fallacy, Southern Democrats of old (or as they've also been called, Dixiecrats) were never conservative in terms of the constitution.

.

The consitution and the strictness in following it does not determinate liberalness or conservativeness. Conservatives vs. liberals is not a battle of Big government vs small government, but it is of tradition vs. modernism, inequality vs equality, and hierarchy vs. democracy. Conservatives have traditionally been in favor of inequality, tradition, and hierarchy. The South has been a bastion of conservatism in North America and the Dixiecrats continued this tradition.

 

[Creech]

I've been kind of curious lately into the super polarization of the American political landscape now to ask a legit question that hopefully will provide a good debate, but no left/right bashing.

So what happened to the conservative wing in the Democratic Party? Southern Dems used to be some of the most conservative politicians in the US.

What happened to the Liberal wing of the Republican Party? The US had a few strong Republican presidents and VP's that were more in line with today's Democratic party then the conservative juggernaut in the GOP. Heck, Rockefeller Republican used to mean a liberal Republican.

Also why is the US so reluctant to get a strong third party going that could challenge both the Dems and the GOP on a national basis. The independant,third party vote is so split that it has little impact on elections.

Regarding why third parties cannot gain much strength, it is largely due to our electoral system, which IMO is terrible. Our system largely REQUIRES gigantic parties. The winner-take-all system we have makes it so that if an election comes to 51% to 49%, only the 51% will receive any representation of all. That means 49% of voters will not be represented fairly. This leads people to go with one of the major parties as it stands the most chance of getting the highest %.

 

[bhsmte]

I've been kind of curious lately into the super polarization of the American political landscape now to ask a legit question that hopefully will provide a good debate, but no left/right bashing.

So what happened to the conservative wing in the Democratic Party? Southern Dems used to be some of the most conservative politicians in the US.

What happened to the Liberal wing of the Republican Party? The US had a few strong Republican presidents and VP's that were more in line with today's Democratic party then the conservative juggernaut in the GOP. Heck, Rockefeller Republican used to mean a liberal Republican.

Also why is the US so reluctant to get a strong third party going that could challenge both the Dems and the GOP on a national basis. The independant,third party vote is so split that it has little impact on elections.

Nixon was likely the most liberal president we have had since FDR.

One day we may have a strong third party, but that would require a ground force of support, to get past current powers at be.

 

[Billnew]

The only way to a third party is a ground up organization.
Most people want a third party president when the two parties offer nothing.

But the third party president would be worse then the two party stagnation we have now.
Senate-D, House-R and President-3rd party. How would they work together?
Who would take the lead? No one. They would fight each other branch tooth and nail.

A third party president must have third party support or they will easily be defeated in legislation or even if a challenge to impeach.
What kept Bush from being Impeached? His support.
What kept CLinton from being removed? His support in the Senate.
What keeps Obama from being impeached? His supporters in the Senate.

If a third party president faced a controversy, he would fall to the whim of Congress.
Republicans and Democrats have the power, until we have a strong third party they are the only options.
2016 is not possible for third party, 2020 is possible if the third party can get motivated.

The US is moderate with leanings toward conservative on the average. But people are easily divided when they don't see a strong candidate. We haven't had good strong candidates for a long time.

If you can't dazzle them with brillance, baffle them with BS. Most candidates try to baffle. I am not just talking Obama and CLinton either.
I would love a strong candidate, be it Moderate liberal, conservative, or third party.
Of course, I believe the next president should believe the debt is:
To Extensive Already, and the American people are Taxed enough already.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

The only way to a third party is a ground up organization.
Most people want a third party president when the two parties offer nothing.

But the third party president would be worse then the two party stagnation we have now.
Senate-D, House-R and President-3rd party. How would they work together?
Who would take the lead? No one. They would fight each other branch tooth and nail.

You make a valid point.

In a thread about a year ago, I mentioned that aside from using social media for a campaign basis, another way a 3rd party could break into the mainstream is to run on a ticket with an established party...sort of ease into it.

For example, if a republican president put a libertarian on his ticket as VP or if a democrat put a green party member on as their VP, that could get some exposure to the 3rd party as well as give them credibility as viable. (which it's unfortunate that a party needs the media to be viable, but that's the way it is these days)

 

[Grizzly]

IMO it all moved "left" and the Republican party now IS the liberal wing of the Republican party...and the TEA party is trying to be the conservative wing of the Republican view???


I recall when most all elected politicians were pretty much "center" left or right a bit but "center"... that's gone, imo. Center is way far left now?

It's a pretty good indication that you have moved to the edge of the political right when you look up and say "It all moved left"!.

But there is some evidence that much of the movement has been a shift to the right. For example, support for the statement "the government should take care of people who can't take care of themselves " has been in the 70% range since 1987. For republicans, it has dropped from 62% to 40%. For the statement "The goverment should help more needy people, even if it means going deeper in debt", 64% of dems said yes in 1987, and 65% of dems said yes in 2012.

http://www.people-press.org/2012/06/04/partisan-polarization-surges-in-bush-obama-years/

in terms of the environment, 93% of dems endorsed stricter laws and regulations to protect the environment, while Republican support dropped from 86% in 1993, to 47% in 2012.

However, the opposite is true for Dems and republicans on "affirmative action". Support for affirmative action was at 33% in 1987 for dems, and rose to 52% in 2012.

Overall, after reading this entire article, I believe that the republicans are more conservative, the dems more liberal, and that more and more people are identifying themselves as independents.