Confused

ttreg · Oct 7, 2006

Which parts of the old testement's laws apply to us? This has been bothering me lately....

Sunrunner · Oct 7, 2006

I'll give you a hint, there's 10 of them.

We keep other non-Decalogue commandments as well, voluntarily. Like the issue of unclean meats.

Dathen · Oct 8, 2006

All of the Moses laws, like being unclean until evening and so forth were abolished at the cross. As sunrunner stated the 10 commandmeants are kept as God's law and we keep things like food principals as they are healthy and the best for us.

messianicigirl · Oct 8, 2006

Dathen said:
All of the Moses laws, like being unclean until evening and so forth were abolished at the cross. As sunrunner stated the 10 commandmeants are kept as God's law and we keep things like food principals as they are healthy and the best for us.

I would like to see the biblical reference for this statement. Not an interpretation of an obscure reference, but a concrete reference...

Dathen · Oct 8, 2006

Sorry for the delayed response.

An major factor of telling that the ceremonial laws were unimportant is that they were only on the side of the ark of the covenant, the 10 commandments were inside the ark!

This is taken from: Seventh-Day Adventists Believe... A Biblical Exposition of 27 Fundamental Doctrines. Doctrine 18. Pages 243-244.

The Law and the Gospel after the Cross:
As amny christians have observed that while Christ's death abolished the ceremonial law, it affirmed the comtinued validity of the moral law. Note the evidence:
1- The Ceremonial Law-
When Christ died, He fulfilled the prophetic symbolism of the sacrificial system. type met antitype, and the ceremonial law came to an end. Centuries before Daniel had predicted that the death of the Messiah would "bring an end to the sacrifice and offering." (Daniel 9:27) When Jesus died, the viel of the temple was supernaturally torn in two, from top to bottom. (Matthew 27:51). indicating the end of the spiritual significance of the Temple services.
Although the ceremonial law filled a vital role before the death of Christ, it was deficient in many ways, being only "a shadow of the good things to come. (Hebrews 10:1) It served a temporary service and was imposed on God's people until the coming of "the time of reformation" (Hebrews 9:10 and Galatians 3:19)- until the time when Christ died as the true lamb of God. At the death of Christ the jurisdiction of ceremonial law came to an end. His astonishing sacrifice provided forgiveness for all sins. This act "wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contray to us. And he has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. (Colossians 2:14 and Deuteronomy 31:26) Then it was no longer necessary to perform the elaborate ceremonies that were not, in any case, able to take away sins or purify the conscience. (hebrews 10:4, 9:9, 14). No more worries about the ceremonial laws and their complex requirements, regarding food and drink offerings, celebrations of various festivals (Pentecost, passover etc,) new moons or cermonial sabbaths. (Colossians 2:16 and Hebrews 9:10) which were only a "shadow of things to come." (Colossians 2:17).
With Jesus death believers no longer had any deel with shadows- reflections to the reality of christ. Now they could directly approach the saviour and talk to Him themselves, for the "substance is of Christ." (Colossians 2:17)
As interpreted by the Jews, the ceremonial law had become a barrier between them and other nations. It had become a great obstacle to their mission to enlighten the world with the glory of God. Christs death abolished this, "law of commandments contained in ordinances" breaking down " the middle wall of division" between gentiles and Jews so as to create one new family of believers reconciled into "one body through the cross." (Ephesians 2:14-16)

2.The declogue and the cross:
While Christ's death ended the authority of the ceremonial law, it established tht of the 10 commandments. Christ took away the curse of the law, therefore liberating believers condemnation. His doing so, however, did not mean the law was abolished, giving us liberty to violate it's principals. The abundant tetimany of the scripture regarding the perpetuity of the law, refutes such a view. Calvin aptly stated that "we must not imagine that the coming of Christ has freed us from the authority of the law, for it is the eternal view for a devout and holy life, and must, therefore, be as unchangable as the justice of God.Paul described the relationship between obidienca and the gospel of saving grace. Calling believers to Holy living, he challenged them to present themselves "as instrumenys of righteousness to God. For sin shall have no dominion over you, for you are not under law, but under grace." (Romans 6:13-14)So christians do not keep the law to abtain salvation- those who try to do so will find a deeper enslavement to sin. "As long as a man is under law he also remains under the condemnation of sin, for the law itself cannot save one from the condemnation or the power of sin.But those who are under grace recieve not only release from condemnation (Romans 8:1) but also power to overcome. (Romans 6:4) Thus sin no longer have dominion over them. "Christ." paul added " is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes" (Romans 10:4) Everyone then who believes in Christ realizes that He is the end of the law as a way of obtaining righteousness. In ourselves we are sinners. But in CHrist Jesus we are righteous through His imputed righteousness. Yet being under grace does not give believers the license to "to continue in sin so that grace will abound (Romans 6:1) Rather, greace supplies the power that supplies the power to make obidience and victory over sin possible. "There is therefore no condemnation for those who are in Christ, who do not walk accodring to the flesh, but according to the spirit." (Romans 8:1)
Christ's death magnified the law, upholding it's universal authority. If the decalogue could have been changed, He would not of had to die. But because the law is absolute and immutable, a death was required to pay the penalty it imposed. The reqirement Christ fully satisfied by His death on the cross, making eternal life avaliable to all who except his magnificent sacrifice.

Just to add on myself, we know God's law is unchangeable beacause of Matthew 5:18.

I hope this helps messianicgirl, if not say so and I'll give you more information.

messianicigirl · Oct 11, 2006

Dathen said:
Sorry for the delayed response.

An major factor of telling that the ceremonial laws were unimportant is that they were only on the side of the ark of the covenant, the 10 commandments were inside the ark!

This is taken from: Seventh-Day Adventists Believe... A Biblical Exposition of 27 Fundamental Doctrines. Doctrine 18. Pages 243-244.

The Law and the Gospel after the Cross:
As amny christians have observed that while Christ's death abolished the ceremonial law, it affirmed the comtinued validity of the moral law. Note the evidence:
1- The Ceremonial Law-
When Christ died, He fulfilled the prophetic symbolism of the sacrificial system. type met antitype, and the ceremonial law came to an end. Centuries before Daniel had predicted that the death of the Messiah would "bring an end to the sacrifice and offering." (Daniel 9:27) When Jesus died, the viel of the temple was supernaturally torn in two, from top to bottom. (Matthew 27:51). indicating the end of the spiritual significance of the Temple services.
Although the ceremonial law filled a vital role before the death of Christ, it was deficient in many ways, being only "a shadow of the good things to come. (Hebrews 10:1) It served a temporary service and was imposed on God's people until the coming of "the time of reformation" (Hebrews 9:10 and Galatians 3:19)- until the time when Christ died as the true lamb of God. At the death of Christ the jurisdiction of ceremonial law came to an end. His astonishing sacrifice provided forgiveness for all sins. This act "wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contray to us. And he has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. (Colossians 2:14 and Deuteronomy 31:26) Then it was no longer necessary to perform the elaborate ceremonies that were not, in any case, able to take away sins or purify the conscience. (hebrews 10:4, 9:9, 14). No more worries about the ceremonial laws and their complex requirements, regarding food and drink offerings, celebrations of various festivals (Pentecost, passover etc,) new moons or cermonial sabbaths. (Colossians 2:16 and Hebrews 9:10) which were only a "shadow of things to come." (Colossians 2:17).
With Jesus death believers no longer had any deel with shadows- reflections to the reality of christ. Now they could directly approach the saviour and talk to Him themselves, for the "substance is of Christ." (Colossians 2:17)
As interpreted by the Jews, the ceremonial law had become a barrier between them and other nations. It had become a great obstacle to their mission to enlighten the world with the glory of God. Christs death abolished this, "law of commandments contained in ordinances" breaking down " the middle wall of division" between gentiles and Jews so as to create one new family of believers reconciled into "one body through the cross." (Ephesians 2:14-16)

2.The declogue and the cross:
While Christ's death ended the authority of the ceremonial law, it established tht of the 10 commandments. Christ took away the curse of the law, therefore liberating believers condemnation. His doing so, however, did not mean the law was abolished, giving us liberty to violate it's principals. The abundant tetimany of the scripture regarding the perpetuity of the law, refutes such a view. Calvin aptly stated that "we must not imagine that the coming of Christ has freed us from the authority of the law, for it is the eternal view for a devout and holy life, and must, therefore, be as unchangable as the justice of God.Paul described the relationship between obidienca and the gospel of saving grace. Calling believers to Holy living, he challenged them to present themselves "as instrumenys of righteousness to God. For sin shall have no dominion over you, for you are not under law, but under grace." (Romans 6:13-14)So christians do not keep the law to abtain salvation- those who try to do so will find a deeper enslavement to sin. "As long as a man is under law he also remains under the condemnation of sin, for the law itself cannot save one from the condemnation or the power of sin.But those who are under grace recieve not only release from condemnation (Romans 8:1) but also power to overcome. (Romans 6:4) Thus sin no longer have dominion over them. "Christ." paul added " is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes" (Romans 10:4) Everyone then who believes in Christ realizes that He is the end of the law as a way of obtaining righteousness. In ourselves we are sinners. But in CHrist Jesus we are righteous through His imputed righteousness. Yet being under grace does not give believers the license to "to continue in sin so that grace will abound (Romans 6:1) Rather, greace supplies the power that supplies the power to make obidience and victory over sin possible. "There is therefore no condemnation for those who are in Christ, who do not walk accodring to the flesh, but according to the spirit." (Romans 8:1)
Christ's death magnified the law, upholding it's universal authority. If the decalogue could have been changed, He would not of had to die. But because the law is absolute and immutable, a death was required to pay the penalty it imposed. The reqirement Christ fully satisfied by His death on the cross, making eternal life avaliable to all who except his magnificent sacrifice.

Just to add on myself, we know God's law is unchangeable beacause of Matthew 5:18.

I hope this helps messianicgirl, if not say so and I'll give you more information.

Thanks for the response. NP on the delay. I have an erractic work schedule and this response is delayed as well. The things that you quoted are familiar to me, but not used as you have used them. I am re-reading those sections for context. So, I won't address that yet. I did want to address the idea that you said Passover and other Feasts no longer need to be kept, yet people take Communion and celebrate Easter (a Greek pagan juxtaposition on the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus) and celebrate Palm Sunday. Well, Communion is the Passover celebration. Palm Sunday is the Feast of Tabernacles celebration. So, the Church does very much still keep some of the Feasts under the guise of something different and without the full teaching of these rituals...

OntheDL · Oct 11, 2006

messianicigirl said:
Thanks for the response. NP on the delay. I have an erractic work schedule and this response is delayed as well. The things that you quoted are familiar to me, but not used as you have used them. I am re-reading those sections for context. So, I won't address that yet. I did want to address the idea that you said Passover and other Feasts no longer need to be kept, yet people take Communion and celebrate Easter (a Greek pagan juxtaposition on the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus) and celebrate Palm Sunday. Well, Communion is the Passover celebration. Palm Sunday is the Feast of Tabernacles celebration. So, the Church does very much still keep some of the Feasts under the guise of something different and without the full teaching of these rituals...

Hi,

I see that you are new to the forum so let me inform you the forum rules if you have not read them already. By rule, comments and debates are not allowed by anyone who's not part of this congregation. However you can still post questions and fellowship.

I hope you enjoy your stay here just be sure to follow the forum rules.

Now to your post...No SDA should celebrate Easter, Palm Sunday, or any of the holiday of pagan origins. I don't celebrate Christmas, but I find it a sensitive issue to tell other not to. It's also an issue among the messianics.

Palm Sunday has nothing to do with the Feast of Tabernacles. Palm Sunday is in March. Feast of Tabernacles is in the Fall time frame(October). Also since the hebrew calendar depends on the cycle of the moon, none of the feast days fall on any specific day of the week.

Jesus instituted two rites (not really new) for the christians: communion and baptism.

The ceremonies and rituals expired when Jesus died on the cross because these sacrificial ceremonies pointed to the death of our Lord Jesus. And after Jesus' ascension, He was anointed to be our High Priest. Thus the Levitical priesthood expired also.

The Council of Jerusalem decribed in Acts 15 declared that the law of Moses not binding on the Christians (This was replied to you in another thread, please read the scriptural references).

Also read Galatians 2, 3 & 4. Paul made it very clear the Mosaic law no longer binding on us. Notice Gal 3:17 says the law was 430 years after God made a covenant with Abraham. And it was added because of transgression til the seed should come, vs 19. We know the 10 commandments are eternal (the sabbath commandment was given after creation) and the Jesus did not nullify them. So this law that was added 430 years after the promise to Abraham til the seed should come was the Law of Moses. Now Paul wrote in the following:

Gal 3
23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

We should know the 10 commandments reflect Christ's eternal character. So we will always be 'under' the 10 commandments as they are the standard from which our character is judged by.

However the Law of Moses had fulfilled its purpose, therefore 'done away, abolished, nailed to the cross...'

There are those who will never accept this so to justify what they practice. But my question for you is: would you trouble yourself to study the Word of God and accept what it teaches?

If you still have issues, please IM me. I'm willing to clarify them for you.

God bless,

Dathen · Oct 11, 2006

Amen. I'm with you, ontheDL My family and church dosn't celebrate Palm Sunday or easter. On Christmas we see it as a time for giving and community outreach, but not really the falseness of christ's birth. SDA's don'y participate in any of them, usually.

messianic girl
If you study communion and passover in the Bible you will find that we are commanded to keep communion, in rememberence. If you would like I can post a bible Study on that too.

messianicigirl · Oct 11, 2006

OntheDL said:
Hi,

I see that you are new to the forum so let me inform you the forum rules if you have not read them already. By rule, comments and debates are not allowed by anyone who's not part of this congregation. However you can still post questions and fellowship.

I hope you enjoy your stay here just be sure to follow the forum rules.

Now to your post...No SDA should celebrate Easter, Palm Sunday, or any of the holiday of pagan origins. I don't celebrate Christmas, but I find it a sensitive issue to tell other not to. It's also an issue among the messianics.

Palm Sunday has nothing to do with the Feast of Tabernacles. Palm Sunday is in March. Feast of Tabernacles is in the Fall time frame(October). Also since the hebrew calendar depends on the cycle of the moon, none of the feast days fall on any specific day of the week.

Jesus instituted two rites (not really new) for the christians: communion and baptism.

The ceremonies and rituals expired when Jesus died on the cross because these sacrificial ceremonies pointed to the death of our Lord Jesus. And after Jesus' ascension, He was anointed to be our High Priest. Thus the Levitical priesthood expired also.

The Council of Jerusalem decribed in Acts 15 declared that the law of Moses not binding on the Christians (This was replied to you in another thread, please read the scriptural references).

Also read Galatians 2, 3 & 4. Paul made it very clear the Mosaic law no longer binding on us. Notice Gal 3:17 says the law was 430 years after God made a covenant with Abraham. And it was added because of transgression til the seed should come, vs 19. We know the 10 commandments are eternal (the sabbath commandment was given after creation) and the Jesus did not nullify them. So this law that was added 430 years after the promise to Abraham til the seed should come was the Law of Moses. Now Paul wrote in the following:

Gal 3
23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

We should know the 10 commandments reflect Christ's eternal character. So we will always be 'under' the 10 commandments as they are the standard from which our character is judged by.

However the Law of Moses had fulfilled its purpose, therefore 'done away, abolished, nailed to the cross...'

There are those who will never accept this so to justify what they practice. But my question for you is: would you trouble yourself to study the Word of God and accept what it teaches?

If you still have issues, please IM me. I'm willing to clarify them for you.

God bless,

Thanks for the post. I apologize if you feel that I have been argumentative. I do read the Bible and believe what it teaches. This is how I came to believe what I believe. I have been attending SDA for 2 years. The concept of replacement theology is something that exists in most "Christian" denominations. I happened to see the subject brought up here and thus decided I would ask about it. I have visited a number of SDA's and have found that most do celebrate Easter in some shape or form. As for Palm Sunday, the idea of the waving of palms comes from Feast of Tabernacles. Also, scripturally, the time line isn't clear about Jesus being hailed as Hosanna immediately preceding Passover. Rather, it's an afterthought added in by the writer... The only cultural correlation to the waving of palms is Feast of Tabernacles. It's funny, I think people will say and interpret things to justify replacement theology, while you think people will say anything to justify trying to keep to the original spirit of the Book...

Sunrunner · Oct 11, 2006

OntheDL said:
Now to your post...No SDA should celebrate Easter, Palm Sunday, or any of the holiday of pagan origins. I don't celebrate Christmas, but I find it a sensitive issue to tell other not to. It's also an issue among the messianics.

I agree. I felt convicted over this issue this year, actually, and told my family that I didn't want anything for Christmas this year.

Dathen · Oct 12, 2006

messianicgirl said:
I have visited a number of SDA's and have found that most do celebrate Easter in some shape or form.

That's not too good. I hardley even know when it's easter. It's something I don't think adventists should celebrate. As for Christmas, me and my church see it as an opportunity to do community outreach to bring souls to Christ. Being quite newly baptised in SDA, I have never not celebrated, but I find it hard to not celebrate it with my family, who do. I am definately trying to make it less important each year though. As a pagan thing, I think it as not important. Interesting fact=

santa
satan

Interesting huh. I believe santa is satans counterfiet to bring peoples's mind away from Jesus. Even though christmas is pagan and not really christian. What's funny is that today it's looked at as christian. My brother absolutely hates religion, yet he absolutely loves christmas, or just getting presents.

Dathen said:
messianic girl
If you would like I can post a bible Study on communion too.

OntheDL · Oct 12, 2006

messianicigirl said:
Thanks for the post. I apologize if you feel that I have been argumentative. I do read the Bible and believe what it teaches. This is how I came to believe what I believe. I have been attending SDA for 2 years. The concept of replacement theology is something that exists in most "Christian" denominations. I happened to see the subject brought up here and thus decided I would ask about it. I have visited a number of SDA's and have found that most do celebrate Easter in some shape or form. As for Palm Sunday, the idea of the waving of palms comes from Feast of Tabernacles. Also, scripturally, the time line isn't clear about Jesus being hailed as Hosanna immediately preceding Passover. Rather, it's an afterthought added in by the writer... The only cultural correlation to the waving of palms is Feast of Tabernacles. It's funny, I think people will say and interpret things to justify replacement theology, while you think people will say anything to justify trying to keep to the original spirit of the Book...

Actually the Palm Sunday was a Roman feastival 'the Entry of the Tree' that celebrated the resurrection of god Attis. Do a search on 'Attis'. You will see Palm Sunday was originated from the Roman mythology, similiar to the Babylonian mythology of Tammuz. It has nothing to do with Jesus' entry of Jerusalem or the Feast of Tabernacle.

'Replacement Theology' is a catch phrase that people like to throw around. I'd like to present to anyone to see if the bible indeed talks about the following replacements:

1. Jesus' ultimate sacrifice replaced all earthly sacrifices. True or false?

2. Jesus became our highpriest and replaced the levitical human priesthood.

Hebrews 9:11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;

3. The Mosaic covenant expired and was forever replaced by new covenant of grace. Hebrews 8:7-13, Hebrews 10:9-18.

4. The NT church replaced the nation of Israel.

Matt 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

Matt 23
38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

The pride is the original sin that did the devil in. And he knows very well how to use it against our human frailty. The reason the Jews are the hardest group to reach is the same reason that they rejected Jesus in the first place: they think they are the chosen people of God, and have nothing to repent of.

Nobody likes to be replaced. But this is how the Lord works: if you are not doing His will, He will find someone else who will. Yeah, the Lord will keep His promise made to Israel. That's why He cut off the natural branches due to their unbelief and grafted in the wild branches. The bible talks about God is no respector of persons: the physical heritage makes no difference but if you are Christ's, you are a jew and the heir to the promise.

Galatians 3
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

messianicigirl · Oct 12, 2006

deleted

messianicigirl · Oct 12, 2006

Dathen said:
That's not too good. I hardley even know when it's easter. It's something I don't think adventists should celebrate. As for Christmas, me and my church see it as an opportunity to do community outreach to bring souls to Christ. Being quite newly baptised in SDA, I have never not celebrated, but I find it hard to not celebrate it with my family, who do. I am definately trying to make it less important each year though. As a pagan thing, I think it as not important. Interesting fact=

santa
satan

Interesting huh. I believe santa is satans counterfiet to bring peoples's mind away from Jesus. Even though christmas is pagan and not really christian. What's funny is that today it's looked at as christian. My brother absolutely hates religion, yet he absolutely loves christmas, or just getting presents.

I think the unique thing about Christmas is that many churches do use it as an opportunity to point to Christ. The wild thing about Christmas to me is that like it's beginning, it is also now very cultural. People don't always celebrate Christmas in it's paganism. They celebrate it like they celebrate the 4th of July. It's a cultural holiday, it's a pagan holiday, it's a Christian holiday.... I find this same phenom with Easter. Some use it to point to Christ, others for culture and I'm sure there's still pagans out there...

messianicigirl · Oct 12, 2006

Dathen said:
That's not too good. I hardley even know when it's easter. It's something I don't think adventists should celebrate. As for Christmas, me and my church see it as an opportunity to do community outreach to bring souls to Christ. Being quite newly baptised in SDA, I have never not celebrated, but I find it hard to not celebrate it with my family, who do. I am definately trying to make it less important each year though. As a pagan thing, I think it as not important. Interesting fact=

santa
satan

Interesting huh. I believe santa is satans counterfiet to bring peoples's mind away from Jesus. Even though christmas is pagan and not really christian. What's funny is that today it's looked at as christian. My brother absolutely hates religion, yet he absolutely loves christmas, or just getting presents.

I'm more than willing to read your Communion study. I like obtaining new information. My position, however, probably won't change. Communion is a Passover Seder. And it's done in rememberance of the lamb of G-d, Jesus. That's the Passover lamb.

OntheDL · Oct 12, 2006

messianicigirl said:
What about being grafted in?
What about salvation to the Jew first and then also to the Greek?

Yeah, the gentiles were grafted in. If you are a farmer, you will know to graft something in, you first cut-off the branch you don't want, then you graft in the 'wild' branch. Paul wrote in Romans 11 the natural branch was cut off because of unbelief.

Who's the root? Jesus Himself. This doesn't mean God has foresaken the jews. The Jews can be saved individually by accepting and following Jesus, just not as a nation.

Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Notice here the object Paul was talking about is the gospel, not the salvation. Abraham was not even a jew, but was saved by his faith.

The gospel did go to the Jews first. But the Jews as a people rejected it. Therefore it was necessary for the gentiles to cary forth the message of the gospel.

I have Romans 1:16 quoted to me everytime when encountering this issue. However they don't let the bible interprete itself. Here it explains itself.

Acts 13:46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.

God didn't lead them to a desert island but rather to the land of Palestine which is the intersection of trade routes to 3 continents. This showed God intended for them to be a witness and to evangelize the world. But instead the jews put up walls and have a 'holier than thou' attitude. This is why God had to raise up another people to preach the Word.

Dathen · Oct 12, 2006

messianicigirl said:
I'm more than willing to read your Communion study. I like obtaining new information. My position, however, probably won't change. Communion is a Passover Seder. And it's done in rememberance of the lamb of G-d, Jesus. That's the Passover lamb.

The way this conversation is going, pretty much all has been mentioned, so I'll add as necessary and answer any specific questions.

Sophia7 · Oct 14, 2006

Dathen said:
Amen. I'm with you, ontheDL My family and church dosn't celebrate Palm Sunday or easter. On Christmas we see it as a time for giving and community outreach, but not really the falseness of christ's birth. SDA's don'y participate in any of them, usually.

Most of the Adventists that I know do celebrate Christmas and Easter. We live in a very conservative area of the country, and still most of them do. We had a big controversy in one of our churches a few years ago over having a Christmas tree in the church. A few of our older members objected, but the pro-Christmas-tree side got their way.

Personally, as a family we have chosen not to emphasize the secular aspects of Christmas although that's difficult when we visit family because most of my husband's relatives are not Christian, and mine are more secular than we are. We recognize that Jesus was not actually born on December 25, but we do use that opportunity to teach our kids about what Jesus did for them by coming to earth as a baby. We teach them about Jesus all the time, but we reinforce it at Christmas because they hear about it everywhere at that time, and they ask questions. It's good for them to know that Christmas is not just about getting presents from grandparents.

Also, since so many people celebrate Christmas, it's a good chance to reach them with the gospel. More people attend church at Christmas and Easter than at any other time of the year, and I think that we should do whatever we can to teach people about Christ when they are open to hearing it.

Dathen · Oct 14, 2006

Sophia7 said:
and I think that we should do whatever we can to teach people about Christ when they are open to hearing it.

My church has a christmas service, 9:00 christmas morning, but don't mention a thing regarding easter

OntheDL · Oct 14, 2006

Sophia7 said:
Most of the Adventists that I know do celebrate Christmas and Easter. We live in a very conservative area of the country, and still most of them do. We had a big controversy in one of our churches a few years ago over having a Christmas tree in the church. A few of our older members objected, but the pro-Christmas-tree side got their way.

Personally, as a family we have chosen not to emphasize the secular aspects of Christmas although that's difficult when we visit family because most of my husband's relatives are not Christian, and mine are more secular than we are. We recognize that Jesus was not actually born on December 25, but we do use that opportunity to teach our kids about what Jesus did for them by coming to earth as a baby. We teach them about Jesus all the time, but we reinforce it at Christmas because they hear about it everywhere at that time, and they ask questions. It's good for them to know that Christmas is not just about getting presents from grandparents.

Also, since so many people celebrate Christmas, it's a good chance to reach them with the gospel. More people attend church at Christmas and Easter than at any other time of the year, and I think that we should do whatever we can to teach people about Christ when they are open to hearing it.

A couple of years ago some people in my church put up a tree in the front. An elderly lady (friend of mine) went up there basically torn it apart right before the sabbath service. I chuckle when I think about it. They of course hate her. But if I was there I would have done it myself too.

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