Confused about the commandment that was "abolished." (2)

tzadik · Apr 29, 2013

LittleLambofJesus said:
So what is the view of the MJ sect concerning that future anti-christ [which btw was written more than 2000yr ago

Not sure I understand your question.
What 'MY' personal view of this person is only what Scripture has disclosed about him...

Clare73 · Apr 29, 2013

tzadik said:
examples...

Examples of "Law" having three meanings in Scripture would be:

Mt 5:19; Lk 2:24; Jn 7:51 = Mosaic law

Lk 10:26, 24:44; Mt 11:13, 12:5 = the Pentateuch

Jn 10:34, 12:34, 15:25, 7:49 (cf v.42) = the whole OT

tzadik · Apr 29, 2013

Clare73 said:
Examples of "Law" having three meanings in Scripture would be:

Mt 5:19; Lk 2:24; Jn 7:51 = Mosaic law

Lk 10:26, 24:44; Mt 11:13, 12:5 = the Pentateuch

Jn 10:34, 12:34, 15:25, 7:49 (cf v.42) = the whole OT

I understand the above Clare...
My question is...what makes you say that Psalm 1 is talking about the "OT" and not the Law of God?

Tell me why David would not be speaking about delighting in the Law of God...
(I understand that you wouldn't agree that it is possible to DELIGHT in the Holy Law of God as a believer...but I just want to know on what basis do you choose 1, 2 or 3)

Clare73 · Apr 29, 2013

tzadik said:
I know very well of these three uses you are describing.

The question I'm asking is...HOW are you choosing/deciding to use the "OT" card, instead of the Law of God card?

What proof or basis do you have for choosing A instead of B+C...

Context should be the basis.

OldStudent · Apr 29, 2013

As we read the book of Acts it is apparent that the main theme is the apostles carrying the tidings of Jesus everywhere they went. Let's take a moment with a sentence in Acts 11:26: And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch. They WERE CALLED… It appears this label was given them by the Antiochans. Why? Whenever you talked with them, somehow the conversation spun back to Jesus the Christ. So they were pegged. Jesus is the best, most primary source material (as in research sources) on a topic. So, again, I recommend doing a search on “Sabbath” in the Gospels. Read fully each incident and see if you too see that Sabbath had a special place with Him.

Some folks have a fascination with shadows. In this case the "shadows" are very valuable to examine. When I was in high school one of the teachers took me up in his aircraft. He let me handle the controls for a few minutes. He asked that I keep the nose of the craft pointed at the mountain directly in front of us. In a matter of seconds our heads were looking out the right window at it. Then I got into model aircraft. Another person took me up and let me handle the controls of a real aircraft again. I did a deliberate turn with a roll out at 90 degrees and maintained altitude and the new direction. Those models taught me the principles of flight and control. Like that, those "shadows" are actually the model that teaches us how to handle the real.

In our country we have bodies of law and regulations for business, health, law practice, and criminal law to deal with those that step out of bounds. When God brought His people out Egypt He also addressed law for the regulation of various facets of life. And there were branches of law there as well.

There are a some distinctive documents in the Siniatic law. After the people accepted God’s proposed covenant Moses was summoned into the mount with God. God wanted to dwell with His people and He desired a place where He could be among them. God began the description of His plans with His throne – the Ark of the Testimony (Ex 25). Moses was shown a pattern (Ex 25:9 et.al.). He built a model after that pattern. Remember that detail. It will come to view again soon. Key parts of the Ark were the basic chest and the Mercy Seat. A key point to note is that the Testimony was the Ten Commandments engraved in stone with His own hand. This was placed IN the ark under the seat, the Mercy Seat, of His throne. This structure says that His throne, the basis of His rule rests on the Ten Commandments but is accessed through mercy, also an integral part of His throne – His rule.

God also gave Moses other branches of the body of law. These Moses wrote in a book. This book was placed in the side of the Ark. Here were contained other branches of law – civil, health, criminal, Sanctuary among them. So at the origin of God setting down code of law for His people we see distinctive branches of law which included different writers, different media, different repositories. For sake of this post our focus is on the moral and sanctuary branches of law. It is key when we discuss the jurisdiction of law in terms of time, purpose, and application that we understand the branches of law and what branches are under discussion.

Next we need to consider the idea of "new covenant." In this venue we must pass on much development and support. The term was first coined by Jeremiah (31:31) and twice referenced in Hebrews. The key observations to note are that the new covenant identifies no new or different content from the original - only a new method of application - God writing His law on hearts. In looking back that was not new but at the time Jeremiah wrote He was desirous of a restart. The exile to Babylon was imminent as a point of that restart.

At Sinai God presented the Ten Commandments and some supportive regulations. These were core features and expectations of a covenant God wanted with His people. This covenant was ratified, signed with the blood of select animals (Ex 24).

At the Last Supper Jesus looked across the cup of wine saying, "This is the new covenant in My blood." Jesus had already presented the elements of that covenant now He was ratifying, sealing it with HIS blood. Once He died there were to be no further changes to the covenant (Heb 9). But it also signaled a MAJOR change, a change of administration. This change of administration is THE major theme of the letter to the Hebrews. It is apparent in reading Hebrews that the body of law the author is addressing is Sanctuary law. The first seven chapters identify Jesus' qualifications as High Priest of a better covenant. In eight through ten he identifies the short comings of the earthly sanctuary and the effectiveness of the heavenly sanctuary of which the earthly sanctuary was a model - a shadow. So the body of law surrounding the earthly sanctuary was ineffective in dealing with sin and guilt. But under THE NEW ADMINISTRATION OF JESUS IN THE HEAVENLY SANCTUARY our dire needs are met. The body of law that comprises the shadow of things to come is the Sanctuary code - NOT moral Ten Commandment law. That is written by God, in stone (permanent), and under/in His throne. Not even the "ceremonial" law was set aside in the sense that Jesus became the Lamb of sacrifice, the High Priest, the Advocate working in reality following prescribed services for the sake of dealing with our sin and providing our righteousness. The OT Sanctuary code was prophetic, illustrative, and descriptive of the work Jesus took up in the heavenly sanctuary after His ascension.

So the Sabbath is written into the code of His throne and remains so. The observation in the OP stands as good.

This is very sketchy development but it can provide a perspective and starting place.

LittleLambofJesus · Apr 29, 2013

Originally Posted by LittleLambofJesus
So what is the view of the MJ sect concerning that future anti-christ [which btw was written more than 2000yr ago

tzadik said:
Not sure I understand your question.
What 'MY' personal view of this person is only what Scripture has disclosed about him...

So both and your Jewish Denomination claim ignorance about that character.

Any idea how the non-Christian Jews view him?

.

tzadik · Apr 29, 2013

Clare73 said:
Context should be the basis.

Right...so what would you say to Joshua's statement: "This book of the law shall not depart from your mouth, but you shall meditate on it day and night, so that you may be careful to do according to all that is written in it; for then you will make your way prosperous, and then you will have success."

Sounds an awful lot like Psalm 1 doesn't it

tzadik · Apr 29, 2013

LittleLambofJesus said:
So both and your Denomination claim ignorance about that character.

Are you missing words in the sentence? My denomination claim ignorance? what?

LittleLambofJesus · Apr 29, 2013

tzadik said:
Are you missing words in the sentence? My denomination claim ignorance? what?

Nice dodge

.

tzadik · Apr 29, 2013

LittleLambofJesus said:
Nice dodge

LLOJ...i literally have no idea what you are talking about.

You should know by now that I don't usually dodge any of your questions.
If you could rephrase it in a way that I understand, I'll certainly answer it.

Clare73 · Apr 29, 2013

tzadik said:
I understand the above Clare...
My question is...what makes you say that Psalm 1 is talking about the "OT" and not the Law of God?

Tell me why David would not be speaking about delighting in the Law of God...
(I understand that you wouldn't agree that it is possible to DELIGHT in the Holy Law of God as a believer...but I just want to know on what basis do you choose 1, 2 or 3)

Well, I'm not wed to that choice.

But my "delight" there is in the "word of God," the whole OT, which is also the way I see Ps 119, one of my favorites.

LittleLambofJesus · Apr 29, 2013

tzadik said:
LLOJ...i literally have no idea what you are talking about.

You should know by now that I don't usually dodge any of your questions.
If you could rephrase it in a way that I understand, I'll certainly answer it.

How much more simple can I put it?

Originally Posted by LittleLambofJesus
So what is the view of the MJ sect concerning that future anti-christ [which btw was written more than 2000yr ago]

tzadik · Apr 29, 2013

Clare73 said:
Well, I'm not wed to that choice.

But my "delight" is the "word of God," the whole OT.

Understood.

David was in fact referring to the Law of God in Psalm 1...(as Joshua did in Joshua)

David reiterates this in Psalm 119...
I will meditate on Your precepts and regard Your ways.

Even though princes sit and talk against me, your servant meditates on Your statutes.

And I shall lift up my hands to Your commandments, Which I love; and I will meditate on Your statutes.

May the arrogant be ashamed, for they subvert me with a lie; but I shall meditate on Your precepts.

O how I love Your law! It is my meditation all the day.

I have more insight than all my teachers, for Your testimonies are my meditation.

---
God's Holy Law should be a delight for the believer....This is why God says in the same breath as the TWO GREATEST COMMANDMENTS...
"You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might. "These words, which I am commanding you today, shall be on your heart. You shall teach them diligently to your sons and shall talk of them when you sit in your house and when you walk by the way and when you lie down and when you rise up."

tzadik · Apr 29, 2013

LittleLambofJesus said:
How much more simple can I put it?

This is one of the vaguest questions ever.

Are you asking me what my view of the Anti-Christ is?
As in what I think about him...what I think he'll do...when will he show up?

What specifically are you looking for?

Do you want me to go look up all the passages that speak about him and quote em for you?

tzadik · Apr 29, 2013

Clare73 said:
Well, I'm not wed to that choice.

But my "delight" there is in the "word of God," the whole OT, which is also the way I see Ps 119, one of my favorites.

That's nice. You take what he is actually saying and apply it to the Word of God, instead of the Law of God...

I mean it's not incorrect, seeing that the Law of God IS the Word of God...

As long as you are not "circumventing" his clear reference to the Law of God (that many claim is now abolished) and somehow try to replace that with "the entire Bible".

David does a pretty good job at SPECIFICALLY referring to the ENTIRE Word of God when he wants to

---
As for God, His way is blameless; The word of the LORD is tried; He is a shield to all who take refuge in Him.

For the word of the LORD is upright, and all His work is done in faithfulness.

How can a young man keep his way pure? By keeping it according to Your word.

I shall delight in Your statutes; I shall not forget Your word.

The sum of Your word is truth, and every one of Your righteous ordinances is everlasting.
--

We obviously should delight in the SUM of God's Word, but David took the time to remind us and encourage us to LOVE, DELIGHT and WALK in the LAW OF GOD!!!

LittleLambofJesus · Apr 29, 2013

tzadik said:
This is one of the vaguest questions ever.

Are you asking me what my view of the Anti-Christ is?
As in what I think about him...what I think he'll do...when will he show up?

What specifically are you looking for?

Do you want me to go look up all the passages that speak about him and quote em for you?

Nah, that is ok [and off topic for this thread].

[I am well aware of the passages both the sabbatarian/anti-Sunday MJs and SDAs are talking about]

Perhaps I will create a thread on GT for the MJs [and SDAs] to give their view of that character.

.

Leuko Petra · Apr 29, 2013

tall73 said:
it looks like you failed to address the post I made.

I assume you mean Ellen White talking about those who left the Advent movement being among its harshest critics.

Newsflash. That was hardly prophetic. They were already doing it in her day because some of the doctrines didn't add up.

However, am I your enemy because I am discussing the Scriptures with you? Did I not say I am still studying it? I was willing to change my views before, and if convinced will again.

No Tall73, not failed, simply went to bed, after a really long and tiring day of out of doors labour. Therefore, please have patience, when time allows for proper response it will be given.

Please do not assume, rather ask questions, for the vision [being very specific] I referred to is not the comment [which is not a vision] about those which left being the harshest critics. However, perhaps you should consider that statement also, since I detect some bitterness and harshness and jumping to conclusions unwarranted.

According to the vision, neither you, nor your wife will ever come back, and both of you may study all you desire, but let us go back to the texts, and come to the vision later.

tzadik · Apr 29, 2013

LittleLambofJesus said:
Nah, that is ok [and off topic for this thread].

[I am well aware of the passages both the sabbatarian/anti-Sunday MJs and SDAs are talking about]

Perhaps I will create a thread on GT for the MJs [and SDAs] to give their view of that character.

So your entire "nice dodge" scenario was all bogus?

MoreCoffee · Apr 29, 2013

As Moses came down from Mount Sinai with the two tablets of the commandments in his hands, he did not know that the skin of his face had become radiant while he conversed with the LORD. When Aaron, then, and the other Israelites saw Moses and noticed how radiant the skin of his face had become, they were afraid to come near him. Only after Moses called to them did Aaron and all the rulers of the community come back to him. Moses then spoke to them. Later on, all the Israelites came up to him, and he enjoined on them all that the LORD had told him on Mount Sinai. When he finished speaking with them, he put a veil over his face. Whenever Moses entered the presence of the LORD to converse with him, he removed the veil until he came out again. On coming out, he would tell the Israelites all that had been commanded. Then the Israelites would see that the skin of Moses' face was radiant; so he would again put the veil over his face until he went in to converse with the LORD.
(Exodus 34:29-35)

Now if the ministry of death, carved in letters on stone, was so glorious that the Israelites could not look intently at the face of Moses because of its glory that was going to fade, how much more will the ministry of the Spirit be glorious? For if the ministry of condemnation was glorious, the ministry of righteousness will abound much more in glory. Indeed, what was endowed with glory has come to have no glory in this respect because of the glory that surpasses it. For if what was going to fade was glorious, how much more will what endures be glorious.
(2 Corinthians 3:7-11)

Look and see ...

Stryder06 · Apr 29, 2013

MoreCoffee said:
As Moses came down from Mount Sinai with the two tablets of the commandments in his hands, he did not know that the skin of his face had become radiant while he conversed with the LORD. When Aaron, then, and the other Israelites saw Moses and noticed how radiant the skin of his face had become, they were afraid to come near him. Only after Moses called to them did Aaron and all the rulers of the community come back to him. Moses then spoke to them. Later on, all the Israelites came up to him, and he enjoined on them all that the LORD had told him on Mount Sinai. When he finished speaking with them, he put a veil over his face. Whenever Moses entered the presence of the LORD to converse with him, he removed the veil until he came out again. On coming out, he would tell the Israelites all that had been commanded. Then the Israelites would see that the skin of Moses' face was radiant; so he would again put the veil over his face until he went in to converse with the LORD.
(Exodus 34:29-35)

Now if the ministry of death, carved in letters on stone, was so glorious that the Israelites could not look intently at the face of Moses because of its glory that was going to fade, how much more will the ministry of the Spirit be glorious? For if the ministry of condemnation was glorious, the ministry of righteousness will abound much more in glory. Indeed, what was endowed with glory has come to have no glory in this respect because of the glory that surpasses it. For if what was going to fade was glorious, how much more will what endures be glorious.
(2 Corinthians 3:7-11)

Look and see ...

To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

Look and see...

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