confirmation

[churchgoer123]

just curious,

but i was wondering, what do all the different denominations (or the main ones) believe about confirmation.

that is, what do catholics, lutherans, etc do for the confirmation thing.

and which ones believe that it is nessesary for salvation?

thanks

 

[michaeldimmickjr]

just curious,

but i was wondering, what do all the different denominations (or the main ones) believe about confirmation.

that is, what do catholics, lutherans, etc do for the confirmation thing.

and which ones believe that it is nessesary for salvation?

thanks

The moment you ask Jesus into your heart you are confirmed in Him. You don't need a man or a ritual to tell you what Jesus already has told us. He says He is the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Him - John 14:6. Praise be to God for the perfect sacrifice!

Your Brother in Chrsit,

Michael

 

[NJA]

People call themselves or other people “christians”, but how can they make this judgement ?
God says:- “The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it ?” (Jeremiah 17v9)
... therefore he *must* bare independent witness, the apostles certainly waited for this:-
“God, which knows the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us” (Acts 15v8 referring to the speaking in tongues with Gentile and Jew in Acts 10 & 2).
i.e. Only accept God's confirmation.

This concurs with Romans 8v15-16 and Galatians 4v6 (and John 3v8, 12) where it is "the Spirit" that bares witness when he enters us, crying "Abba Father", not us saying "abba father" with our spirit. The word "Abba" refers to one's true father, and since God is a Spirit (John 4v23) it follows that the cry should be in a language of the Spirit. Some people claim an "inner witness", but with Jesus and in Acts the witness of *receiving* the Spirit was not just an inner thought or feeling.

Jesus also said:-
“If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true. . . But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father has given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father has sent me.” (John 5v31-36)

 

[churchgoer123]

i know this stuff.

im just trying to figure something out about a friend of mine.

 

[Telrunya]

Actually very few protestant denominations and even few non denominational protestant churches even practice the formal confirmation like the Catholics and Lutherans do. Not even all Lutheran churches practice the formal confirmation. Mainly because it is a tradition that was instituted by man, not God. This is not saying that traditions dont have value, but they are not on the same par as God's word and we should not cling to them to the exclusion of God's word. God's word says nothing about a formal confirmation by the earthly church or by men being needed in order to be saved.

 

[SoulFly51]

As far as I know the only churches that practice "confirmation" are those that baptize infants.

There is no Biblical basis for infant baptism. Belief coupled with repentance precedes baptism 100% of the time in the Bible.

The first recorded case of infant baptism occured about 75-100 years into early church history. There are no cases of infant baptism recorded in the Bible. This was not something the apostles taught nor advocated.

In response to the thread authors question, Catholics, Lutherans are among a few of the denominations that practice infant baptism and confirmation. I do not know which ones believe confirmation is required for salvation, but I do know that most of them teach that when an infant is baptized it becomes a believer.

Instead of "believe and be baptized" - it is "baptize so that you may believe." Personally, I believe they have it backwards, and I also have not met an infant who professed a belief in Christ, nor have I met one willing to repent of it's sinful life.

In my opinion, confirmation is a joke. And a bad one at that.

 

[Velcro]

Some Messianics have bar (for males) or bat (for females) mitzvahs. Some congregations treat the bar/bat mitzvah differently than mine does, but this is what we do, very basically:

By the time the candidate has the bar/bat mitzvah, s/he is @ 12 or 13 years old. Some are older, but I have never heard of one younger. I was bat mitzvahed at age 53. By the special day, the candidate has learned to read Hebrew and can read that day's scripture before the congregation in Hebrew as well as read (or cant) the blessings in Hebrew. They have read the whole Torah in their own language and have performed certain duties (acts of kindness or mitzvot) set by the parents (of the young person).

After the observance, the person is considered an adult, as far as their spiritual welfare is concerned: they bear full responsibility for all their decisions and are expected to act and respond as adults. They may be part of a prayer group and even have responsibility in decision-making processes. They may then be called to read Scripture or cant the blessings in the congregation at any time. That night, the families are likely to have a party for the person, as they are welcomed by both adults and peers into their new position in the community.

Bar/bat mitzvah does not save nor is it necessary for salvation.

 

[BigNorsk]

A few comments on the Lutheran Confirmation process. Confirmation is a time of more intense study of Biblical truths. Students go through foundational beliefs and practices, usually with the pastor. Confirmation is not a Sacrament.

In many congregations, first Communion is taken after confirmation, in others it often occurs during the confirmation process. This is done in order to assure that Communion is not taken in an unworthy manner, but after the person understands what Communion is. It varies somewhat, but a person is basically considered an adult after confirmation.

You could call it young adult education if you wished, maybe that would make some feel better, the congregation I grew up in usually called it "reading for the minister." That phrase is rooted in Norwegian history and has to do with why Norway had close to 100% literacy at the time of the American Civil War.

I am sure many congregations try to plan Sunday School curriculum in order to accomplish the same thing. The trouble with that is people moving about, and missing classes, quality of teaching and so on. Lutheran Confirmation is basically assurring that each and every person receives and understands Christian fundamentals. I don't understand how that could be considered anything but advantageous and is certainly not "a joke."

Marv

 

[pastel]

It seems people in this thread are very ignorant of many facts about Lutherans. I suggest, if you are willing to, go into the Lutheran forum and ask some real questions. You may learn something about us, instead of judging us so harshly.

 

[Tiger Lily]

Instead of "believe and be baptized" - it is "baptize so that you may believe." Personally, I believe they have it backwards, and I also have not met an infant who professed a belief in Christ, nor have I met one willing to repent of it's sinful life.

I guess this means mute people cannot be saved then?

 

[SPALATIN]

As far as I know the only churches that practice "confirmation" are those that baptize infants.

There is no Biblical basis for infant baptism. Belief coupled with repentance precedes baptism 100% of the time in the Bible.

The first recorded case of infant baptism occured about 75-100 years into early church history. There are no cases of infant baptism recorded in the Bible. This was not something the apostles taught nor advocated.

In response to the thread authors question, Catholics, Lutherans are among a few of the denominations that practice infant baptism and confirmation. I do not know which ones believe confirmation is required for salvation, but I do know that most of them teach that when an infant is baptized it becomes a believer.

Instead of "believe and be baptized" - it is "baptize so that you may believe." Personally, I believe they have it backwards, and I also have not met an infant who professed a belief in Christ, nor have I met one willing to repent of it's sinful life.

In my opinion, confirmation is a joke. And a bad one at that.

How can one profess a faith he has not been given? If one were to believe first and then be baptized who gave them their faith? The mistake that you make in the quote is that you don't see faith coming through the means of Baptism. You see Baptism only as an obedience to God's command, but there must have been a reason that God commanded it otherwise it is a fruitless gesture on our part.

Faith is a gift. It is not innate in our physical being. We receive it from God through Christ in Baptism. So in effect you have it backwards and we (infant baptizers) have it forward. Confirmation is where we learn about the doctrines of the faith that we have been given in Baptism. It may be a man instituted ritual, however, it serves a purpose to give one's faith more gravity to understand the complexities involved in it. Baptism is a means of Grace that God has instituted in his Great commission and it is for all people of all ethnicities and ages not just for those who have a sentient knowledge of what God is to them.

You make Baptism to be law and not Grace and that is where you fall short in your understanding of it.

 

[Telrunya]

How can one profess a faith he has not been given? If one were to believe first and then be baptized who gave them their faith? The mistake that you make in the quote is that you don't see faith coming through the means of Baptism. You see Baptism only as an obedience to God's command, but there must have been a reason that God commanded it otherwise it is a fruitless gesture on our part.

Faith is a gift. It is not innate in our physical being. We receive it from God through Christ in Baptism. So in effect you have it backwards and we (infant baptizers) have it forward. Confirmation is where we learn about the doctrines of the faith that we have been given in Baptism. It may be a man instituted ritual, however, it serves a purpose to give one's faith more gravity to understand the complexities involved in it. Baptism is a means of Grace that God has instituted in his Great commission and it is for all people of all ethnicities and ages not just for those who have a sentient knowledge of what God is to them.

You make Baptism to be law and not Grace and that is where you fall short in your understanding of it.

Act 8-12-13 But when they believed Philip as he preached the good news of the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. Simon himself believed and was baptized. And he followed Philip everywhere, astonished by the great signs and miracles he saw.

Acts 18:8 Crispus, the synagogue ruler, and his entire household believed in the Lord; and many of the Corinthians who heard him believed and were baptized.

Romans 8:28 [ More Than Conquerors ] And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, [ Some manuscripts And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God] who [ Or works together with those who love him to bring about what is good–with those who] have been called according to his purpose.

I'm not trying to attack you here brother but what you are preaching does not line up with scripture. I agree that faith is a gift from God and it's source is God. That comes from the Holy Spirit's calling on our hearts not from being washed in water. Satan believes in Jesus, but does not submit to him. Belief comes first and then once you submit to God and ask for forgiveness is when Jesus baptizes you with the Holy Spirit. Repentace is a key to receiving the Holy Spirit and we can only repent when we believe from the gift of faith.

Acts 2:38Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Acts 11:16 Then I remembered what the Lord had said: ‘John baptized withwater, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’

1 Corinthians 12:13 For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body–whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free–and we were all given the one Spirit to drink.

No where does it say in scripture that we receive faith by baptism.

 

[Onesimus85]

just curious,

but i was wondering, what do all the different denominations (or the main ones) believe about confirmation.

that is, what do catholics, lutherans, etc do for the confirmation thing.

and which ones believe that it is nessesary for salvation?

thanks

Methodists do not believe that you have to go through confirmation in order to receive salvation.

 

[Starberry]

We have members in our Church that never went through Confirmation classes that are fully accepted in our membership, as in Communion and everything, because they were baptized believers when they came in. So NO, Confirmation has nothing to do with salvation, but it has everything to do with members understanding the Bible from an early age, and what Communion, etc. means. Where on earth did you people get these erroneous facts from? Are you saying keeping the pews warm is good enough for your members, and learning the Bible and what you believe is not that important?

Wouldn't it be better if YOU were informed of the truth before making such statements as this? Or are you trying to offend Lutherans? I think you have succeeded in that.

 

[NJA]

Mark 16:20: And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following.

1Cor. 1:6: Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you:

1Thess 1:5: For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake.

People call themselves or other people “christians”, but how can they make this judgement ?
God says:- “The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it ?” (Jeremiah 17v9)
... therefore he *must* bare independent witness, the apostles certainly waited for this:-
“God, which knows the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us” (Acts 15v8 referring to the speaking in tongues with Gentile and Jew in Acts 10 & 2).

 

[Tiger Lily]

... therefore he *must* bare independent witness, the apostles certainly waited for this:-
“God, which knows the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us” (Acts 15v8 referring to the speaking in tongues with Gentile and Jew in Acts 10 & 2).

Every believer is given the Holy Spirit. Speaking in tongues is not necessary for salvation. Even Paul said this. He said speaking in tongues was the least gift.

 

[Tiger Lily]

Read I Corinthians 12 for the gifts, that is each is given a different gift...a diversity of gifts. Speaking in tongues is not necessary for salvation.

 

[NJA]

"The gifts" passage is not about what different people get at salvation, this is seen from the passage itself, and the passages that deal with salvation.

1Cor. 12:8: For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
:9: To another faith . . . .tongues . . .interpretation

You wouldn't say only "one" or even just some christians get faith, or knowledge would you ? . . .no . . .

The *context* of that is that since chapter 11 he has been telling the church how God wants his meetings run.
This can even be seen from those few verses - you wouldn't say that only "one" or even just some christians have faith, or knowledge - would you ?

"Gifts" as the word suggests are *giving* to the church, of what ALL Christians have for private use - u cannot have Jesus WITHOUT His mind or power or abilities !
That's also why it says "to ONE" because in the public context only *one* should speak at once, to avoid confusion.

He is the "firstfruit", if you have a fruit tree, you expect the later fruit to be the SAME as the first-fruit.

Paul begins by affirming this:-
1Cor.1:4: I thank my God always on your behalf, for the grace of God which is given you by Jesus Christ;
:5: That in every thing ye are enriched by him, in all utterance, and in all knowledge;
:6: Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you

(This agree with Acts were ALL were FILLED, and the rest of the letters where ALL are to use and grow in faith, knowledge, wisdom, and to pray in tongues / "praying in the Spirit")

1Cor.14:18: I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:
(a crass and boastful thing to say if only some can !)
:19: Yet *in the church* I had rather speak five words with my understanding

So, like all the Lord's brethren, I can pray in tongues privately (it's "praying in the Spirit), but, in a meeting, I may or may not receive "a GIFT of tongues", same goes for faith, knowledge etc. In fact it is *precisely because* all christians have all these attributes that Paul needed to write to the Corinthians. If, as you say only some had each ability the problem of all acting "as one member" could never have arisen !

Please read 1 Corinthians 11-14 and compare it with what hapopens where you worship.

It details:-
choruses/spiritual songs
testimony by someone of what God has done for them
words of wisdom & knowledge (talk from the bible)
hymn & communion (sunday meetings)
2 or 3 gifts of tongues, each with interpretation
2 or 3 prophecies
prayer line (gifts of healing and faith)
closing song/notices
tea

. . . ."all things done decently and in order", "the spirit of the
prophets are subject to the prophets", God does not "take people over"

1Cor.14:37: If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.