OnederWoman, we are not very different. I'm a pentecostal--anyone who reads my posts knows that I believe in the gifts, and that they are commonly with the Lord's people today (although the Lord's people are not so common). But I'm not just skeptical--I'm certain. Most people you see, claiming to be filled with the Spirit and speaking in tongues, are not. Most people who claim to have the gift of discernment do not. A good portion of people who claim to be healers are not--although I would say that the fraction of truth among
them might be greater, since healing isn't as easy to counterfiet. Straight is the gate, and narrow is the way, and few find it.
This is not to say that anyone who counterfiets the gifts of the Spirit are demon possessed, and it's not to say that they are not sincere, or that all of them are even aware that they are faking things (some people fake the gifts, believing that the counterfiet is actually the gift), but we shouldn't take MAN's WORD for it on anything. If a man says that he or anyone else is annointed, ask the Spirit to tell you himself, if it matters to you or your cause. If a man prophesies, test the Spirits. If a man claims to have discernment, test the Spirits. Always. Even among those you love and cherish. Even among those who have been right in the past.
There are many who present methods of faith, methods of achieving gifts, and easy, all-purpose *methods* for recieving the Spirit, but in doing so they turn the word of God into a procedure (oh--if you didn't notice, the "cessationists" are more guilty of this than pentecostals and charismatics, by the way). If you want to recieve the Spirit, PRAY. And let him clean you. If you want to recieve a gift, PRAY, and God will give it to you if doing so goes with his plan. This "name it and claim it" movement puts people in shoes that they cannot fill. God waits on us enough--let's wait on him at least ONCE. Not everyone recieves the Holy Spirit at the moment they believe. If you read the book of Acts, this is obvious. Not everyone recieves a gift of the Spirit the moment they pray for it, if at all--if everyone who prays for a gift recieves that gift, why did Paul say this?
1 Cor 12:
4There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5There are different kinds of service, but the same Lord. 6There are different kinds of working, but the same God works all of them in all men.
7Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. 8To one there is given through the Spirit the message of wisdom, to another the message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, 9to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, 10to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues,[
1] and to still another the interpretation of tongues.[
2] 11All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he gives them to each one, just as he determines.
12The body is a unit, though it is made up of many parts; and though all its parts are many, they form one body. So it is with Christ. 13For we were all baptized by[
3] one Spirit into one body--whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free--and we were all given the one Spirit to drink.
14Now the body is not made up of one part but of many. 15If the foot should say, "Because I am not a hand, I do not belong to the body," it would not for that reason cease to be part of the body. 16And if the ear should say, "Because I am not an eye, I do not belong to the body," it would not for that reason cease to be part of the body. 17If the whole body were an eye, where would the sense of hearing be? If the whole body were an ear, where would the sense of smell be? 18But in fact God has arranged the parts in the body, every one of them, just as he wanted them to be. 19If they were all one part, where would the body be? 20As it is, there are many parts, but one body.
21The eye cannot say to the hand, "I don't need you!" And the head cannot say to the feet, "I don't need you!" 22On the contrary, those parts of the body that seem to be weaker are indispensable, 23and the parts that we think are less honorable we treat with special honor. And the parts that are unpresentable are treated with special modesty, 24while our presentable parts need no special treatment. But God has combined the members of the body and has given greater honor to the parts that lacked it, 25so that there should be no division in the body, but that its parts should have equal concern for each other. 26If one part suffers, every part suffers with it; if one part is honored, every part rejoices with it.
The gifts DO manifest themselves in those that are filled with the Spirit of God. The problem is, those who are filled with the Spirit of God are few and far between.
Now, for 1 Cor 13, I think those who take "tongues shall cease" to mean that Spiritual gifts are no more today are completely misrendering this chapter for its purpose as well as its message. What did Paul say about the day the gifts will no longer be needed?
1 Cor 13:
8Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. 9For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears. 11When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me. 12
Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.
13And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.
Do we know as we are known? Do we see face to face? What good is speaking in tongues, when we see him face to face? What good is prophecy and knowledge, when we know as we are known? What good is healing, when no one ever gets sick? What good is teaching and preaching, when we all know Christ as he knows us? What good is the Spiritual gift of great faith, if we are with Christ as we will be when he comes? This is the point of the chapter, and I think it is missed by those who accept the gifts as well as those who reject them: Rejoice in love, which is God, rather than the miraculous achievements that the gifts of God produce. Love will endure forever, but the gifts are only tools used in this world, to help aide fallen man in his journey to find his God. The gifts of the Spirit are with us today, but when we are caught up to meet him, we will no longer have any need for them. All of the healings, all of the prophecies, all of the teachings and songs and understandings that we enjoy today because of our walk with God will pale in comparison with his glory, when we see him face to face. Faith, hope, and love will remain, and the greatest of these is love. Think and nurture yourself in love, not in the gifts. Accept the gifts and be glad in them, but our focus is toward love, which is where the gifts come from. God is love.
(for the "The Bible is that which is perfect" folks)The Scriptures are not the
complete word of God--the scriptures themselves say that they are not.
"Jesus did many other things as well. If every one of them were written down, I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written." --John 21:25
"As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeitjust as it has taught you, remain in him." --1 John 2:27
It is impossible to contain the word of God in any volume of text or speech. Again, if the Bible is "that which is perfect," why is it that we do NOT know as we are known? Why is it that we STILL know in part? Do you think we see face to face, and not through a glass darkly? And if you think that the KJV or any other translation is perfect, well, you have more faith in men than I do.
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