Confession

[Tallguy88]

Lets set aside for a moment breaking a law and the connection to sin as far as disobedience to authority. Let's just look at the act. I have seen people argue for moral or venial on the use of marijuana.

You are not in direct material cooperation so it is not the same as those in cartels and such. The issue that divides mortal from venial is abuse. If you abuse or overuse any drug that can damage the body to the point where you are desecrating your body you are verging into mortal sin. Most people who look at such things would not look at occasional use as a mortal sin. It is breaking the law so it is a venial sin as long as it is illegal.

An argument might look this way (figuring in the law as well):

Objective act
Occasionally Smoking Marijuana (Neutral act)

Circumstance
It is against positive law. And we must obey proper legal authority. (Sinful act)

Some can argue you are supporting a large sinful industry by cooperation. This is a stronger argument with other drugs but it is worth noting. You are not in direct cooperation but you are contributing. But no so much that you are in formal cooperation. Now, if the circumstance becomes a frequency that leads to more money in that direction as well as damage to your own body you move to mortally sinful. Other issues of damage at a "recreational" level are (according to some) the same as smoking or alcohol. But excessive use of these can be a question as well. So the sinful nature of the act comes from the opposition to legitimate authority who has the right to make laws as long as they do not oppose natural law. And the damage done willfully to your body if abused. It is this later that can drive it toward a mortal sin.

Intention
To get high (Basically neutral but you are willing to break the law to do it so pushed more toward sinful)

So in short...many would argue occasional use is a venial sin. Abuse is a mortal. Medicinal use is not sinful.

Thanks. If it were legalized, that would remove that aspect of its potential sinfulness.

See, I told you guys he was good at this.

 

[Davidnic]

Also just addressing your worries in general. We all fail. We fail often. We can not walk blindly into hell. There is the Divine Mercy and Purgatory as well as Confession. It can be hard and sometimes we slide into scrupulosity. It might help you to take up a Devotion to the Divine Mercy. This may calm your heart.

 

[Tallguy88]

What if its decriminalized, like it is here in Detroit?

Still breaking federal law, but i believe the the current president says he will not go after low level offenders in places where it is legal locally.

 

[Tallguy88]

Too bad the cartels dabble in multiple things.

http://foreignpolicy.com/2013/12/04/think-again-mexican-drug-cartels/

I ask you this, did the end of prohibition kill off the mafia?

Mostly, though it was sometimes a slow-death.

They lost their main revenue stream and had to diversify to more specialized things like hard drugs, prostitution, and gambling. Joe Everyman wasn't their primary customer anymore.

 

[Davidnic]

The debate on should something be legal or not is always a different issue. And it depends on what the connection is to Natural Law, The Common Good and such.

Many things lead back to sin by connection. We need to make sure we are not in formal cooperation. That is the first step. Of course we need to always obey proper authority. The question is not is it subjectively wrong, but is it objectively a mortal sin. Is it subjectively wrong. Yes. Is it objectively a mortal sin? That can be argued no for some kinds of use and yes for others.

 

[Tallguy88]

Also just addressing your worries in general. We all fail. We fail often. We can not walk blindly into hell. There is the Divine Mercy and Purgatory as well as Confession. It can be hard and sometimes we slide into scrupulosity. It might help you to take up a Devotion to the Divine Mercy. This may calm your heart.

I always have preferred the divine mercy over the rosary.

 

[ALoveDivine]

What I really want to know is this. If you sin in a grave matter, but do so out of habit or a fit of passion or whatever, and not really deliberately, would that count as mortal? I know full consent is required, and I'm not sure I have full consent in my actions these days. I certainly don't want to sin, it just gets to a point where I can't really resist anymore. Is that full consent, or is my culpability lessened?

 

[Sumwear]

Mostly.

They lost their main revenue stream and had to diversify to more specialized things like hard drugs, prostitution, and gambling.

Mostly? By most accounts, they actually gained even more power and influence. You can pinpoint to Capone, but I'll just point to the Commission, Cuba, Nevada, and expanding their reach to other states, and bettering communication and their relationship with Sicily.

 

[Tallguy88]

What I really want to know is this. If you sin in a grave matter, but do so out of habit or a fit of passion or whatever, and not really deliberately, would that count as mortal? I know full consent is required, and I'm not sure I have full consent in my actions these days. I certainly don't want to sin, it just gets to a point where I can't really resist anymore. Is that full consent, or is my culpability lessened?

That's something to talk to your confessor about. We here are not qualified to answer that question specific to you.

You are correct that those factors CAN reduce culpability.

 

[Tallguy88]

Mostly? By most accounts, they actually gained even more power and influence. You can pinpoint to Capone, but I'll just point to the Commission, Cuba, Nevada, and expanding their reach to other states, and bettering communication and their relationship with Sicily.

But that proves my point that they had to scramble to find new sources of income and power. The Cartels will doubtlessly do the same. But that doesn't negate the blow that legalization will bring to them.

 

[Sumwear]

But that proves my point that they had to scramble to find new sources of income and power. The Cartels will doubtlessly do the same. But that doesn't negate the blow that legalization will bring to them.

You claimed it would destroy the cartels if the U.S. were to legalize drugs. That's untrue.The Mexican cartels are already doing what the Italians did by venturing into other avenues. Human trafficking, arms smuggling, piracy. They no longer are a drug syndicate, but they still are in position to be an influential criminal syndicate, which what they currently are. This is with the drug trafficking on top of it.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

What I really want to know is this. If you sin in a grave matter, but do so out of habit or a fit of passion or whatever, and not really deliberately, would that count as mortal? I know full consent is required, and I'm not sure I have full consent in my actions these days. I certainly don't want to sin, it just gets to a point where I can't really resist anymore. Is that full consent, or is my culpability lessened?

For a sin to be mortal, it has to be grave, committed with full knowledge and consent.

Note, this isn't infallible, as my confessor who is a theologian told me, "its a guideline," but we continually find that
various biological events in the brain may cause a person to react in a way which previously was considered a mortal sin, but with today's knowledge on brain chemistry, it doesn't fit the conditions. Road rage was an example he used. They now know that people who commit fits of rage, do so as a result of a chemical reaction in the brain and they act unconsciously for the brief moment. As soon as its over, they know they were wrong, but for a sin to be mortal, it has to be done with full consent at the time its committed.

My personal belief is that sexual desire which leads a person to touch, or to have sex with a person they love outside of marriage, is probably driven by similar circumstances which are difficult if not impossible to over come.

This doesn't mean we should not try to avoid sin and develop the mind-set as to avoid causing those hormonal triggers.

I can assure you, as you age, it gets easier to avoid sins of the flesh, but this is because our hormone levels slow way down and not due to any virtue on our part.

Saints are not defined by the ones who have the strongest willpower, but the one's who love as Christ calls us to do.

In all, if you know you have sin, turn to God and ask for forgiveness, for as the Catechism of the Catholic Church states, "Only God Forgives Sin."

Jim

 

[Tallguy88]

You claimed it would destroy the cartels if the U.S. were to legalize drugs. That's untrue.The Mexican cartels are already doing what the Italians did by venturing into other avenues. Human trafficking, arms smuggling, piracy. They no longer are a drug syndicate, but they still are in position to be an influential criminal syndicate, which what they currently are. This is with the drug trafficking on top of it.

Destroy was a strong word. It will undermine a primary source of revenue and likely make the border region safer since one of their primary smuggling sources will dry up.

 

[stray bullet]

Thanks. If it were legalized, that would remove that aspect of its potential sinfulness.

The only sinfulness of it is in disobeying the law and civil disobedience is not necessarily sinful.

 

[eastcoast_bsc]

I'm not a big fan of smoking. I know some who are. I'd rather drink a glass of grapes/wine.

One thing I noticed about MJ is that it gives a bit of a hang over. I do not know if anyone has ever brought it up but smoking the stuff is not free of side effects.

It always made me way too introspective. I agree, I like my Grapes and Hops.

 

[eastcoast_bsc]

I know I will get the bums rush on this, but I don't feel the whole venial mortal thing is scriptural. I just don't get it. Christ died on the cross for our sins and if we do sin we have an advocate (the holy spirit) that intervenes on our behalf.

 

[mark46]

Let's ask the question directly.

In place like Colorado, is smoking small amount of marijuana any more sinful than drinking small amounts of wine (that is, not at all)?

 

[Rhamiel]

I know I will get the bums rush on this, but I don't feel the whole venial mortal thing is scriptural. I just don't get it.

I am sorry you do not understand the teachings of the Church
remember, feelings are weak and easily fooled
there are lots of people who "feel" stuff is true, they are in Mormonism and Islam and the New Age movement
do not trust in your feelings,
trust in the Church that God gave us

venial sins are venial
mortal sins are mortal

venial sins harm our relationship with God
mortal sins damn us to hell

it is kind of a simple thing to get at, or are you fooled by the "once saved always saved" idea?

 

[Meowzltov]

You need to wake up and realize that sooner or later having sex with your girlfriend is going to end in pregnancy -- birth control has a statistical failure rate.

If you feel so close to your girlfriend that you can be physically intimate with her, risking creating a new life with her, why not just marry her?

 

[ALoveDivine]

If you feel so close to your girlfriend that you can be physically intimate with her, risking creating a new life with her, why not just marry her?

Well first off, we have stopped. I have every intention of not doing that again until we are married, though I admit it is hard. Its almost to the point were I'm not gonna agree to see her unless we're in public. The two of us being alone together at my place, doesn't usually end well, regardless of how pure our intentions may be. So yeah pray for me, I'm trying really hard here.

Marriage is the plan, but as you know its not always that easy. Her parents are somewhat hostile to the notion, for whatever reason, and we'd still have to wait the mandatory six months that the Catholic Church requires. That seems like forever, and its gonna take a LOT of grace to not fall during that time. Then there are the financial issues. It boggles my mind how the Church requires us to marry in the Church, but then turns around and charges us for it. You'd think a required sacrament would be free of charge right? So we'd have to skip on all the frills, skip the entire reception, everything, and even then it'd still be a little difficult financially. I'm pretty sure were gonna take that route, but its not as easy as the two of us just getting married tomorrow.

I used that sin as an example, but we've not fallen into that for a couple weeks now. The only 'grave' sins I've fallen into since then are the other ones I've mentioned. I need to find a parish with anonymous confessions, because as much as I do love and respect the priests of the parish I go to, I'm not excited about confessing the same sins over and over again, face to face, every single week, just so I can receive communion.