Confession of sin?

[Andrew]

HI ANDREW

Perhaps I have misunderstood you

You said


Since you believe this, then surely you must have sinned some time after you became a Christian , just as we ALL have.

That is why I mentioned the verse

1 John 1:9
"If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

Since that is true then IF we DONT then we would NOT be forgiven.

So IF we have sinned we should do as it says and confess our sin. If we are truly sorry we are forgiven - its as simple as that.

It sounds as if you do not interpret it that way. I agree with and enjoy many of your posts but on this matter I pray you see this is what the BIBLE is saying because I am very concerned about you if you have never confessed anything you have even done wrong after you were saved.

But which ever way you choose to believe , I will not argue about it but only speak what the Word says and pray.

God bless you

Hi J4Jesus,

First and foremost, we need to understand what 1Jn 1:9 is talking about.

Traditionally, the church has taken this verse and applied it to Christians, teaching that whenever you sin, you must confess it to be forgiven.

This is wrong. Simply because John was writing to the gnostics, who said that they had no sin. The Spirit-Filled Bible explains this clearly. If you can get hold of one, read the intro to the book of 1John.

So that is the first thing we have to settle.

The rest has to do with the gospel and what Christ has accomplished. Understanding His finished work and the difference between the law and grace, old and new covenant will help us see why there is no need to confess our sins every time we sin in order to be forgiven. But this is another big topic altogether.

 

[Andrew]

There is an excellent article here which explains what 1 John 1:9 is about:

http://www.realanswers.net/realaudio/forgiveness.htm

Here is an excerpt:

1 John 1:9
When we read the Bible, we need to look at the context in which each book was written. If we don't do that, it's easy to misinterpret what a particular book or chapter is really saying. When that happens, we can easily come to wrong conclusions, which can then cause a lot of misunderstanding about the work of Christ on our behalf.

One example of this is that many people believe that although their sins have been forgiven prior to salvation, after salvation it is up to them to obtain forgiveness through their confession. Others believe that all their sins have been forgiven at the cross, however, they cannot experience forgiveness unless they confess each time they sin. The verse both parties use to defend their belief is I John 1:9. Let's read the first chapter of 1 John, and keep in mind two important questions: "Who was John's audience?" and 'What was he trying to accomplish in this letter?"

The audience was a confused church in Asia. The pastor there asked John to write a letter to help clear up some major doctrinal heresy called "Gnosticism." Gnosticism comes from the Greek word " gnosis", which means knowledge. The Gnostics were a group of people who believed they possessed superior spiritual knowledge. They believed that all flesh is evil and that only spirit is good. Because they believed that, they didn't believe that Jesus really came in the flesh - they believed He was an illusion. They also believed that because sin had to do with our flesh, there really wasn't sin - sin was also just an Illusion. (That's similar to people today who believe sickness is an illusion.) [e.g. Christian Science] The church in Ephesus was filled with people who not only didn't believe Christ came in the flesh, they didn't believe sin was real...

 

[God_Owned]

This was supposed to be a no-brainer. Every Christian still sins. Paul said that anything that is not of faith is sin. So even your worries, doubts and fears are sins. In fact, these are the 'bigger' sins.

Like I said, I don't know all Christians. What if a person were to die one second after he was saved. He wouldn't have had time to sin. So I guess that you could say that he did not sin for the rest of his life after being Born Again. I think that this is more of a brainer than a no-brainer.

Yes of course. But what's your point?

Sin has consequences.

Yes. But the Holy Spirit is not the one condemning you.

Agreed!

We have a conscience. We know it when we sin. You don't need a revelation from the Holy Spirit to know that you are sinful.

Wrong. There are many times when people are operating in sin out of ignorance. As they become more sensitized to the Holy Ghost's leading, they are better able to avid sinning in ignorance or deliberately.

Sinning is not necessarily being sinful. Sinners are sinful even when they are not actually sinning. Christians are the righteousness of God even when they sin.

But you need a revelation from the Holy Spirit to know that you are righteous, in spite of your sins. That's what the gospel is about.

Right and wrong. The Holy Ghost will reveal His righteousness in us to us, but the Holy Ghost will also help you to see when we're sinning.

I said that the Holy spirit sensitizes Christians to sin. To which you replied:

That's not Bible. Chapter and verse please.

Well it's in my Bible. The words say In John 16:13, "Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come."

The Holy Ghost will cause you to understand the truth about all things including what you are doing, be it good or bad.

You never answered my questions:

When are sinners supposed to confess their sins and what is different about them before and after they confess their sins? In other words when does a sinner confess and what is the advantage to the sinner when he confesses?

 

[Hisgirl]

"Does a sick person confess their sickness?"

What an amazing question. No, of course not!

We pray for healing, we speak healing, we see healing...our focus is the resurrection life our body is moving towards....having faith in the promise for total healing. "...strengthened in faith, giving glory to God, and being fully convinced that what He had promised He was also able to perform." (Romans 4:20-21)

God raises the dead and gives life to them (John 5:21) and speaks to us of our destiny and our potential. His words are speaking LIFE and we should do the same thing. John 6:63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life.

Just as Gideon saw himself as the least in his father's house (Judges 6:15) but the angel of the Lord spoke of Gideon's destiny when he said, "The Lord is with you, you MIGHTY MAN OF VALOR!" (Judges 6:12)

If I fall...I need to declare 'righteousness' as my bought and paid for identity. This is a revelation I have struggled with for three years..but this very morning.... ...God has opened my eyes to how He truly sees me.

So no more confessing sin! What a stunning thing!

 

[Andrew]

When are sinners supposed to confess their sins and what is different about them before and after they confess their sins? In other words when does a sinner confess and what is the advantage to the sinner when he confesses?

Are you refering to salvation?

When a sinner confesses that he is a sinner in need of Jesus as his saviour and righteousness, all his sins, past present and future are forgiven, wiped out, never to be remembered by God again.

He is no longer a sinner but a saint. He is righteous and will always be, no matter what he does.

There is no need to confess his sins anymore in order to be forgiven. He is already forgiven and is always in a "have forgiveness" state. The moment he sins, the blood covers it.

That is the gospel.

 

[Andrew]

If I fall...I need to declare 'righteousness' as my bought and paid for identity. This is a revelation I have struggled with for three years..but this very morning.... ...God has opened my eyes to how He truly sees me.

So no more confessing sin! What a stunning thing!

Amen sister. You got it!

The more you know how much Christ has done for you and made you so righteous and clean forever, the more you will overcome sin and sicknesses.

You will focus on Him and his perfect sacrifice -- Christ and Him crucified -- and not on your self, flesh the old Adam.

This is moving from millk to solid food. Children to sons of God who know how to enjoy the inheritance!

 

[God_Owned]

Are you refering to salvation?

When a sinner confesses that he is a sinner in need of Jesus as his saviour and righteousness, all his sins, past present and future are forgiven, wiped out, never to be remembered by God again.

He is no longer a sinner but a saint. He is righteous and will always be, no matter what he does.

There is no need to confess his sins anymore in order to be forgiven. He is already forgiven and is always in a "have forgiveness" state. The moment he sins, the blood covers it.

That is the gospel.

So, your theory is that the unsaved is the only person who needs to confess thier sins and once they do they are saved and they never again need to ak forforgiveness?

Is this right?

 

[Hisgirl]

Amen sister. You got it!

The more you know how much Christ has done for you and made you so righteous and clean forever, the more you will overcome sin and sicknesses.

You will focus on Him and his perfect sacrifice -- Christ and Him crucified -- and not on your self, flesh the old Adam.

This is moving from millk to solid food. Children to sons of God who know how to enjoy the inheritance!

*dancing, laughing, celebrating!!* And it's so good! If I'm entangled in confessing my sins...I'm focused on my flesh and what I'm DOING or not DOING. Righteousness is not holiness. It has nothing to do with my behavior. But the righteousness of Christ in me will no doubt lead me to holiness through His living through me. That's my confession!

 

[Andrew]

So, your theory is that the unsaved is the only person who needs to confess thier sins and once they do they are saved and they never again need to ak forforgiveness?

Is this right?

Yes and no.

In the Old Covenant, it is conditional. IF you want God to forgive you, forgive others, otherwise, God will not forgive you. The covenant is cut betw man and God. At mount Sinai, man boasted: "All that you tell us to do, we will do." God said, "Very well. Here are My standards. Keep them and I'll bless you. Break them and I'll curse you."

In the New Covenant, it is unconditional. The covenant is cut betw Perfect Man and God at Calvary. Jesus fulfilled all the IFs and laws and obedience. We are simply beneficiaries. Becos of HIS perfect obedience, God has forgiven you completely. Now, forgive just as God has forgiven you. The sin issue has been dealth with.

So what do you do when you sin?

You say, "Father I'm sorry I fell. But I thank you there is no condemnation and the blood of Christ covers even this sin. I thank you that I am still the righteousness of God in Christ. My righteousness is a gift from the Lord that is not based on my behaviour.

Now, there is no law that says that you cannot say, "Father, I'm sorry. Forgive me." No, it's now about relationship, family, not 2 tablets of stone. Just talk to Him about it, but focus on the finished work, not your works.

So it is error to believe that if you don't confess your sin and ask for forgiveness, that that sin is not cleansed and you remain unforgiven or partially unforgiven.

Think about it: If this is true, then all Christians are going to hell becos I do not know of any Christian who successfully confesses all his sins before he dies. Every worry, every doubt, every fear -- anything done not in faith -- is sin. Sometimes, we don't even know it when we sin or at least don't think it's a sin. Have you done everything God told you to do? Have you obeyed every prompting of the Spirit? Be honest.

IOW, all of us will die with unconfessed sins. All of us will die in an unforgiven state. Hence all of us will go to hell. That is what the "confess your sins to be forgiven" doctrine points to.

That is why the RCs have to make qualifications -- "Well, if you intended to go to the box to confess your sin, and that sin is not a mortal sin, but you died before you could do it, well we don't know, maybe you'll still make it..."

That is not the gospel. The work of Christ is perfect. Once sacrifice for sins forever.

BTW: This debate will probably just go in circles if we don't agree on who 1 Jn 1:9 is for. i.e. gnostics, not Christians.

 

[Andrew]

*dancing, laughing, celebrating!!* And it's so good! If I'm entangled in confessing my sins...I'm focused on my flesh and what I'm DOING or not DOING. Righteousness is not holiness. It has nothing to do with my behavior. But the righteousness of Christ in me will no doubt lead me to holiness through His living through me. That's my confession!

Amen sister. God does not want you to look at your flesh, the works of your flesh, and get depressed.

He wants you to look at His Son and His perfect sacrifice for you, so that you'll rest from your works and be transformed from glory to glory!

 

[chilifrankplate]

Yes and no.

In the Old Covenant, it is conditional. IF you want God to forgive you, forgive others, otherwise, God will not forgive you. The covenant is cut betw man and God. At mount Sinai, man boasted: "All that you tell us to do, we will do." God said, "Very well. Here are My standards. Keep them and I'll bless you. Break them and I'll curse you."

In the New Covenant, it is unconditional. The covenant is cut betw Perfect Man and God at Calvary. Jesus fulfilled all the IFs and laws and obedience. We are simply beneficiaries. Becos of HIS perfect obedience, God has forgiven you completely. Now, forgive just as God has forgiven you. The sin issue has been dealth with.

So what do you do when you sin?

You say, "Father I'm sorry I fell. But I thank you there is no condemnation and the blood of Christ covers even this sin. I thank you that I am still the righteousness of God in Christ. My righteousness is a gift from the Lord that is not based on my behaviour.

Now, there is no law that says that you cannot say, "Father, I'm sorry. Forgive me." No, it's now about relationship, family, not 2 tablets of stone. Just talk to Him about it, but focus on the finished work, not your works.

So it is error to believe that if you don't confess your sin and ask for forgiveness, that that sin is not cleansed and you remain unforgiven or partially unforgiven.

Think about it: If this is true, then all Christians are going to hell becos I do not know of any Christian who successfully confesses all his sins before he dies. Every worry, every doubt, every fear -- anything done not in faith -- is sin. Sometimes, we don't even know it when we sin or at least don't think it's a sin. Have you done everything God told you to do? Have you obeyed every prompting of the Spirit? Be honest.

IOW, all of us will die with unconfessed sins. All of us will die in an unforgiven state. Hence all of us will go to hell. That is what the "confess your sins to be forgiven" doctrine points to.

That is why the RCs have to make qualifications -- "Well, if you intended to go to the box to confess your sin, and that sin is not a mortal sin, but you died before you could do it, well we don't know, maybe you'll still make it..."

That is not the gospel. The work of Christ is perfect. Once sacrifice for sins forever.

BTW: This debate will probably just go in circles if we don't agree on who 1 Jn 1:9 is for. i.e. gnostics, not Christians.

I've been with you on this since I first read your position on it. I just wanted to point out that this post in particular is one of the most beautiful things I have ever read. All praise and glory go to God!

 

[God_Owned]

In the New Covenant, it is unconditional. The covenant is cut betw Perfect Man and God at Calvary. Jesus fulfilled all the IFs and laws and obedience. We are simply beneficiaries. Becos of HIS perfect obedience, God has forgiven you completely. Now, forgive just as God has forgiven you. The sin issue has been dealth with.

There are IFs in the New Testament. These IFs should disabuse you from the notion that receiving forgiveness is automatic,

Matthew 11:25 And when ye stand praying, forgive,if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.

Matthew 6:15 Butif ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

Matthew 18:35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.

Mark 11:26 But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.

Luke 6:37 Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:

1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

So what do you do when you sin?

You say, "Father I'm sorry I fell. But I thank you there is no condemnation and the blood of Christ covers even this sin. I thank you that I am still the righteousness of God in Christ. My righteousness is a gift from the Lord that is not based on my behaviour.

I say Father, in the name of Jesus, for give me for doing what ever it is I did.

So it is error to believe that if you don't confess your sin and ask for forgiveness, that that sin is not cleansed and you remain unforgiven or partially unforgiving.

Presumption!

Think about it: If this is true, then all Christians are going to hell becos I do not know of any Christian who successfully confesses all his sins before he dies. Every worry, every doubt, every fear -- anything done not in faith -- is sin. Sometimes, we don't even know it when we sin or at least don't think it's a sin. Have you done everything God told you to do? Have you obeyed every prompting of the Spirit? Be honest.

This is error. Kenneth Copeland has taught on this. Unforgiven sins and unrepentant thinking may keep you from partaking in the Heaven that is in the Earth, but does not keep you from living eternally in Heaven.

IOW, all of us will die with unconfessed sins. All of us will die in an unforgiven state. Hence all of us will go to hell. That is what the "confess your sins to be forgiven" doctrine points to.

That is why the RCs have to make qualifications -- "Well, if you intended to go to the box to confess your sin, and that sin is not a mortal sin, but you died before you could do it, well we don't know, maybe you'll still make it..."

That is not the gospel. The work of Christ is perfect. Once sacrifice for sins forever.

You appropriate the forgiveness that God made available the same way that you appropriate healing, by grace through faith.

 

[Andrew]

I've been with you on this since I first read your position on it. I just wanted to point out that this post in particular is one of the most beautiful things I have ever read. All praise and glory go to God!

Glad you are blessed. Glad to have pointed you to Him and Him crucified.

 

[Andrew]

There are IFs in the New Testament. These IFs should disabuse you from the notion that receiving forgiveness is automatic,

Matthew 11:25 And when ye stand praying, forgive,if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.

Matthew 6:15 Butif ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

Matthew 18:35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you,if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.

Mark 11:26 But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.

Luke 6:37 Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:

1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

New Testament does not always equal New Covenant.

And I don't think you have really been reading my posts carefully. So we'll just have to agree to disagree, otherwise I'll have to go through the same points with you over and over again.

But I'm glad others are blessed and set free.

 

[God_Owned]

New Testament does not always equal New Covenant.

And I don't think you have really been reading my posts carefully. So we'll just have to agree to disagree, otherwise I'll have to go through the same points with you over and over again.

But I'm glad others are blessed and set free.

I never agree to disagree. It is not God's will.

 

[Andrew]

Then we'll just have to disagree to agree.

 

[God_Owned]

Then we'll just have to disagree to agree.

We don't have to do anything. You do as you choose and I'll do as God instructs.

 

[Andrew]

We don't have to do anything. You do as you choose and I'll do as God instructs.

Just make sure it's God.

 

[God_Owned]

Just make sure it's God.

You needn't concern yourself.

 

[KleinerApfel]

mercy