Confession of sin?

[Andrew]

So Emma,

Based on what you have written, am I right to assume that unlike the majority of Christians, you do not use 1 Jn 1:9 to confess your daily sins and me made righteous again and again as you see no need for that?

Jesus took our sin for us on the cross....if you look to the original text (Greek & Hebrew) sin is referring to our sinful NATURE NOT just the sin as an act.

Jesus was a ONCE and for all offering.....meaning we DONT have to keep asking for forgiveness.....its like saying He didnt do a good enough job and He is only as good as the animal offerings of the OT, He DID IT, ALL OF IT. We dont have to ask for forgivness because He has ALREADY forgiven us.

He did NOT leave things half done!!! He said it IS DONE!! complete!!!

Our sinful nature is dealt with and gone....which means that our sins from the past are forgiven or current sins and the ones of tomorrow.

Another interesting thing is that we always are 'looking at ourselves' seeing what we need to change but only ONCE in the Bible it says to 'look at yourself' and that is where you are coming to the alter and you need to see that your relationship is right with the people....not God.

I think that when Jesus would say to people 'go and sin no more' was like Him saying dont hang around things that are not like you...sin has no place near you so dont hang around it, you have been cleansed of that...acknowledge it and live it. Dont be fooled by the enemy into thinking that it has any place near you, dont let him lie to you and try to entangle you because it has no place near you...you are free and cleansed.

We need to keep our eyes on Him and forget about sin, when we do this He does a work (that He did on the cross) and fades sin to nothing and shows us that its no longer there. Thats where we find the true freedom that He has freely given to us.

 

[Andrew]

Again, he is only talking to believers who have sinned. He is not talking to those of us who are in the light, who are walking in fellowship, and who have been cleansed.

Songbird88,

Interesting post about being in the light and being in darkness.

My question is this:

• Did not Jesus bring us from darkness into light when we believed on Him and were saved? Is this not a done thing? A permanent state? Or can we still move in and out between these 2 states? My belief is that we can't ONCE we have been brought into the light.

• And if in Christ there is no darkness and we are in Him, then to say that the believer can go back into darkness is to say that he can be in and out of Christ every time he sins and then confesses his sins. So, if he sins 10 times a day and uses 1 Jn 1:9 each time he sins to get back into the light, then he was in and out of Christ 10 times a day? Is our salvation so unstable? Is the blood so impotent?

Eph 5:8 for once you were darkness, but now you are light in the Lord; walk as children of light

1Th 5:5 For you are all sons of light and sons of the day; we are not of the night or of darkness.

1Pe 2:9 But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God’s own people, that you may declare the wonderful deeds of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light.

1Jo 1:5 This is the message we have heard from him and proclaim to you, that God is light and in him is no darkness at all.

 

[Father Rick]

Dealing with this issue, I think it is also important to look at Jesus' last actions with his disciples.

On the night he was betrayed, He got up from dinner, took a towel and began to wash their feet. Peter told Jesus "No". Jesus' answer was that they had already been made clean, so if he washed their feet, then they would be clean again. (I know I'm giving the short version)

Moral of the story... Even though we are clean, we pick up 'dirt' just from walking through this world. Periodically, we need to clean the 'dirt off our feet' that is picked up just from living in a world full of 'dirt'--

 

[songbird88]

Hi Andy,
It would seem that to try and interpret these verses as meaning that we are always in the light would create some problems.
For instance.
According to these verses:

• A person who is sinnless is in the light and is in fellowship.
• A perons who has sinned is in darkness and is out of fellowship.

There does not seem to be much room here for a person who has sinned to be "in the light". If you have sin... you are in darkness. That is pretty much the whole point of 1 John. He was pointing out that if you are in darkess you got their by sin. If you find yourself in darkness and claim you did not sin, then you lie. To get out of darkness, you confess sin, are forgiven, and are back into the light.
I think there are different kinds of darkness according to what realm and what light you are talking about. If I turn off the light in this room, I am in physical darkness... but I am not in spiritual darkess. If I sin a sin not unto death, I am in fellowship darkness... but not in relationship darkness. If I sin a sin unto death, I am in relationship darkness. I believe 1 John is refering to fellowhip darkness. He is talking to beleivers (those who are in relationship light and can be in fellowship light). He is telling them that if they sin a sin not unto death, then they are out of fellowship with God (fellowship darkness). They are not in relationship darkness. If you are in relationship darkness... you have to be born again. Getting forgiven (attempting to restore fellowship)will not help you. You need to restore the relationship. The verses you supplied I believe are speaking about relationship light/darkness. These are referring to people who have been born again. But as 1 John points out... it is possible to be a born again believer and yet be out of fellowship with God. You still have the relationship... but the fellowship is gone.
The parable of the prodigal son (I call it the parable of the compassionate father) shows us this. The son who left home and ended up eating pigs food in a far country was "out of fellowship" with his father... but he was not out of relationship. He was still a son of the father. So too when we sin a sin not unto death, we are still born again children of God, but we have left the Father's table and have opted for pigs food.(Fellowship means to partake of the table together.)
Peace

Songbird88,


Interesting post about being in the light and being in darkness.

My question is this:

• Did not Jesus bring us from darkness into light when we believed on Him and were saved? Is this not a done thing? A permanent state? Or can we still move in and out between these 2 states? My belief is that we can't ONCE we have been brought into the light.

• And if in Christ there is no darkness and we are in Him, then to say that the believer can go back into darkness is to say that he can be in and out of Christ every time he sins and then confesses his sins. So, if he sins 10 times a day and uses 1 Jn 1:9 each time he sins to get back into the light, then he was in and out of Christ 10 times a day? Is our salvation so unstable? Is the blood so impotent?

Eph 5:8 for once you were darkness, but now you are light in the Lord; walk as children of light

1Th 5:5 For you are all sons of light and sons of the day; we are not of the night or of darkness.

1Pe 2:9 But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God’s own people, that you may declare the wonderful deeds of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light.

1Jo 1:5 This is the message we have heard from him and proclaim to you, that God is light and in him is no darkness at all.

 

[songbird88]

bump

 

[Father Rick]

Opinions on Rom 5:14

My opinion is that Paul wrote it.

 

[Andrew]

Dealing with this issue, I think it is also important to look at Jesus' last actions with his disciples.

On the night he was betrayed, He got up from dinner, took a towel and began to wash their feet. Peter told Jesus "No". Jesus' answer was that they had already been made clean, so if he washed their feet, then they would be clean again. (I know I'm giving the short version)

Moral of the story... Even though we are clean, we pick up 'dirt' just from walking through this world. Periodically, we need to clean the 'dirt off our feet' that is picked up just from living in a world full of 'dirt'--

My Pastor explains this passage as follows:

We need only bathe once -- the new birth. We need only be saved once, made righteous once, by the blood, once and for all.

But our feet -- our daily walk -- has to be washed daily becos as you say, we pick up 'dirt' from the world.

But the washing here is not washing away sins by the blood thru confessions. It is not washing away 'some' of our unrighteousness that we 'picked' up so that we can be made totally 100% righteous again, and again, and again...

No, it is the washing with the Word. eg: you go thru a hard day's work where you hear a lot of secular negative talk, and you are 'defiled'. Then you come to church and hear the Word -- putting you back on track, on faith -- washing off the 'effects'/'filth' of the world. The washing of the Word. And you are encouraged, uplifted, edified, renewed in your mind... etc.

 

[Andrew]

There does not seem to be much room here for a person who has sinned to be "in the light". If you have sin... you are in darkness. That is pretty much the whole point of 1 John. He was pointing out that if you are in darkess you got their by sin. If you find yourself in darkness and claim you did not sin, then you lie. To get out of darkness, you confess sin, are forgiven, and are back into the light.

Songbird,

As mentioned earlier, this would mean that the Christian can be in and out of Christ like 50 times a day, which really does not make sense.

I think there are different kinds of darkness according to what realm and what light you are talking about. If I turn off the light in this room, I am in physical darkness... but I am not in spiritual darkess. If I sin a sin not unto death, I am in fellowship darkness... but not in relationship darkness.

The Bible does not talk about a "relationship" darkness and a "fellowship" darkness. You are either in the light or you are in the darkness. But Christ has brought us out of the kingdom of darkness into the light. We ARE in the light, whether we've sinned today or not.

And if sin puts the Christian in darkness, then that wld mean that most Christians are in darkness most of the time -- if we are truly honest about sin -- becos anything that is not of faith is sin -- that means when we worry, or doubt, we also sin -- these being the 'bigger' sins of unbelief.

But lets bring this thing back to 1 Jn 1:9. If it is talking about the Christian having to confess his sins everytime he sins, then it again begs the question: How many times can a Christian be cleansed of ALL unrighteousness?

The answer and my point is this : ONLY ONCE. therefore, that verse is not for Christians to use to confess sins and be made righteous over and over again and again....

 

[brinley45cal]

righteousness means right standing,holiness is right living.In other words once a person recives christ he is made righteous or in right standing with god.There isnt different levels of righteousness, your as righteous today as when you first recieved christ,that dosent change unless you stop following christ.God Bless

 

[Andrew]

righteousness means right standing,holiness is right living.In other words once a person recives christ he is made righteous or in right standing with god.There isnt different levels of righteousness, your as righteous today as when you first recieved christ,that dosent change unless you stop following christ.God Bless

Yes I believe that too.

So why do Christians use 1 Jn 1:9 to be made righteous again and again and again and again....

 

[songbird88]

I am fairly certain that John was writing to believers. He is telling them what to do if they find themselves in darkness and out of fellowship. That Christians do sin is self evident. 1 John is the remedy given to Christians telling them what to do when they do slip up and sin. Else why would we need an advocate:
1Jo 2:1
1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

This verse as well as the many others would not make sense if Christians did not sin, never got into darkness, were never out of fellowship, and never needed to confess those sins in order to be cleansed of unrighteousness.
There are different kinds of unrighteousness. This verse is not talking about the righteousness of God that we receive by virture of our relationship obtained in the new birth. Our spirits are 100% righteous. Our flesh and soul however are not. We can sin from the flesh. We do not loose our spiritual salvation when we do... but the laws of reaping and sowing in the flesh are still working. If you sin in the flesh you reap the corruption in the flesh. This is the unrighteousness that we are cleansed from in 1 John 1:9. We do not need to be born again -again. We just need to confess our sins and be cleansed of our soulish unrighteousness. This is the sin not unto death spoken of in chapter 5.
How many times a day do we have to cnfess sins? As often as we commit them.

Songbird,

As mentioned earlier, this would mean that the Christian can be in and out of Christ like 50 times a day, which really does not make sense.



The Bible does not talk about a "relationship" darkness and a "fellowship" darkness. You are either in the light or you are in the darkness. But Christ has brought us out of the kingdom of darkness into the light. We ARE in the light, whether we've sinned today or not.

And if sin puts the Christian in darkness, then that wld mean that most Christians are in darkness most of the time -- if we are truly honest about sin -- becos anything that is not of faith is sin -- that means when we worry, or doubt, we also sin -- these being the 'bigger' sins of unbelief.

But lets bring this thing back to 1 Jn 1:9. If it is talking about the Christian having to confess his sins everytime he sins, then it again begs the question: How many times can a Christian be cleansed of ALL unrighteousness?

The answer and my point is this : ONLY ONCE. therefore, that verse is not for Christians to use to confess sins and be made righteous over and over again and again....

 

[Trish1947]

Jhn 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Jhn 16:8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

Jhn 16:9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;

This is the only sin that we will be judged for. The rest of our sins we're taken to the cross.
This is a explanation of the sin, by Jesus in John 16:8



Jhn 16:10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;

He is the only rightousness that God has accepted. And has already entered Heaven on our behalf.
This is an explanation in John 16:8 of the rightousness that you already have. Him only.


Jhn 16:11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

The only ones that are already judged are those that don't believe in the name of only begotton Son. And the prince of this world, the devil.
This is an explanation in John 16:8 of the ones that already dwell in judgment.

 

[Andrew]

I am fairly certain that John was writing to believers.

Well yes and no. In chap 1 he is addressing the gnostics within the church, and dealing with this heresy. So in this sense, it is not really written to the church. If you have a Spirit-Filled Bible, read the intro to 1 Jn, it gives you the background. The gnostics say that they have no sin, hence John was addressing this. That is alos why 1 Jn does not have the usu opening that adresses the brethren found in the other epistles. It only starts in Chp 2, where her addresses Christians.

This verse as well as the many others would not make sense if Christians did not sin, never got into darkness, were never out of fellowship, and never needed to confess those sins in order to be cleansed of unrighteousness.

1 Jn 7: But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

Its obvious Christians still sin. But that does not put us into darkness. Look at verse 7: It is saying that when we are in the light, the blood cleanses us of all sin. This means even when we sin, we are still in the light! Otherwise, it is redundant for the verse to say "and the blood of Jesus cleanses us from all sin." If obedience and not sinning means walking in the light, then why do we need the blood to cleanse us from all sin?

There are different kinds of unrighteousness. This verse is not talking about the righteousness of God that we receive by virture of our relationship obtained in the new birth. Our spirits are 100% righteous. Our flesh and soul however are not.

These are man-made theories. First you talk about "relationship darkness" and "fellowship darkness", now you say there are 3 types of righteousness. Well, the Bible doesnt differentiate all these.

How many times a day do we have to cnfess sins? As often as we commit them.

Then I assume a great part of your Christian life is spent focussed on your sins and confessing them (if you are honest) -- this is being sin conscious or what the Bible calls having an "evil conscience", that should have been purged by the blood.

 

[God_Owned]

Well bro I know you well enough that I suspect that you already know the answer to this question and are just soliciting opinions.

People who read 1 John and think it means that we are still sinful in our spirit have a great problem in their thinking. They read the verse that you quote as well as the verses previous to it and get into an endless loop. You confess that you are sinful... but then you would be sinless because He forgave you and cleansed you... but then you would be lying if you said you were sinless.... so you would have to confess again...
around and around and around.




The solution is to simply read the verses in context:

5 And this is the message which we have heard from him and announce unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.



​

This verse sets the stage. If you are with God, then you are in the light. If you are in darkness, then you are not with God.

6 If we say that we have fellowship with him and walk in the darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

​

This verse simply carries on the thought of the previous verse. If you are walking in darkness and claim to be in continued fellowship with God, then you are lying. There is no darkness in God, so if you find yourself in darkness you can not be in fellowship with God. This is only talking to beleivers who claim to still be in fellowship with God while they are in darkness. He is not saying all believers are in darkness, nor is he saying all believers are in sin. He is only talking to believers who have sinned and who in that state of darkness claim they are still in fellowship. This is not the normal state or the normal Christian life. This is only describing believers who have sinned, who are in darkness, and so are in truth out of fellowship with God.

7 but if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanseth us from all sin.​

Again he reasserts the fact that God is in the light, and the only way we can also be in the light is if we have been cleansed from all sin and so are in fellowship with God. In no way shape or manner is he suggesting that being in sinfulness, darkness, and being out of fellowship is the normal state for believers. The normal state for believers is to be in the light, cleansed from all sin, and in fellowship with God.

8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

​

A second time he returns to those who are in darkness. If they find themselves in darkness (and out of fellowship) then it can only be for one reason: they have sinned. If you are out of fellowship and in darkness and claim you got there without sinning, THEN you decieve yourself and the truth is not in your. HE IS NOT SAYING SIN IS THE NORMAL STATE OF THE BELIEVER. He is only talking to those who are in darkness and claim they got there without sinning. THEY DID. That is how you get into darkness and out of fellowship.

9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.



​

This is the remedy for those who find themselve in darkness, marred with unrighteousness , and our of fellowship. Confess your sins and He is faithful to forgive you your sin and cleanse you. As above, this is only talking to those who have sinned and who are out of fellowship. He is not talking to those who are with God in the light.

10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.



​

Again, he is only talking to believers who have sinned. He is not talking to those of us who are in the light, who are walking in fellowship, and who have been cleansed.

This is one of the most mangled passages in the NT and has led many believers to go about in confusion. Are we righteous or are we not? WE ARE. If you are not in darkess then this passage does not apply to you. It only applies to those who are in darkness, and so out of fellowship, and who claim they did not sin.

This verse tells you in no uncertain terms what the normal Christian life is:

1 John 3
9. No one born of God commits sin; for God's nature abides in him, and he cannot sin because he is born of God.

That part of you that was born again CANNOT sin. It is totally incapable of sinning. It cannot sin because it has the nature of God. We cannot sin from the heart because HE (our Father) cannot sin from the heart. THAT is the normal Christian life!

Very very GOOD!

 

[J4Jesus]

AMEN songbird88

I have also explained these verse in this way to others when they say we have to sin all the time, although I have never heard anyone teach it like that before. Just that I believe that's what is it saying. I am glad to see some confirmation of this by another Christian.

Well bro I know you well enough that I suspect that you already know the answer to this question and are just soliciting opinions.

People who read 1 John and think it means that we are still sinful in our spirit have a great problem in their thinking. They read the verse that you quote as well as the verses previous to it and get into an endless loop. You confess that you are sinful... but then you would be sinless because He forgave you and cleansed you... but then you would be lying if you said you were sinless.... so you would have to confess again...
around and around and around.









The solution is to simply read the verses in context:

5 And this is the message which we have heard from him and announce unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.​

​

This verse sets the stage. If you are with God, then you are in the light. If you are in darkness, then you are not with God.

6 If we say that we have fellowship with him and walk in the darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:​

​

This verse simply carries on the thought of the previous verse. If you are walking in darkness and claim to be in continued fellowship with God, then you are lying. There is no darkness in God, so if you find yourself in darkness you can not be in fellowship with God. This is only talking to beleivers who claim to still be in fellowship with God while they are in darkness. He is not saying all believers are in darkness, nor is he saying all believers are in sin. He is only talking to believers who have sinned and who in that state of darkness claim they are still in fellowship. This is not the normal state or the normal Christian life. This is only describing believers who have sinned, who are in darkness, and so are in truth out of fellowship with God.

7 but if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanseth us from all sin. ​

Again he reasserts the fact that God is in the light, and the only way we can also be in the light is if we have been cleansed from all sin and so are in fellowship with God. In no way shape or manner is he suggesting that being in sinfulness, darkness, and being out of fellowship is the normal state for believers. The normal state for believers is to be in the light, cleansed from all sin, and in fellowship with God.

8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.






​

A second time he returns to those who are in darkness. If they find themselves in darkness (and out of fellowship) then it can only be for one reason: they have sinned. If you are out of fellowship and in darkness and claim you got there without sinning, THEN you decieve yourself and the truth is not in your. HE IS NOT SAYING SIN IS THE NORMAL STATE OF THE BELIEVER. He is only talking to those who are in darkness and claim they got there without sinning. THEY DID. That is how you get into darkness and out of fellowship.

9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.








​

This is the remedy for those who find themselve in darkness, marred with unrighteousness , and our of fellowship. Confess your sins and He is faithful to forgive you your sin and cleanse you. As above, this is only talking to those who have sinned and who are out of fellowship. He is not talking to those who are with God in the light.

10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.








​

Again, he is only talking to believers who have sinned. He is not talking to those of us who are in the light, who are walking in fellowship, and who have been cleansed.

This is one of the most mangled passages in the NT and has led many believers to go about in confusion. Are we righteous or are we not? WE ARE. If you are not in darkess then this passage does not apply to you. It only applies to those who are in darkness, and so out of fellowship, and who claim they did not sin.

This verse tells you in no uncertain terms what the normal Christian life is:

1 John 3
9. No one born of God commits sin; for God's nature abides in him, and he cannot sin because he is born of God.

That part of you that was born again CANNOT sin. It is totally incapable of sinning. It cannot sin because it has the nature of God. We cannot sin from the heart because HE (our Father) cannot sin from the heart. THAT is the normal Christian life!

 

[lovesblessing]

Hi Andrew!

I just wanted to let you know that I had gone back and edited my previous posts in this thread, to the correct response! So you answers to me look a bit strange.....LOL! In case you want to change them.....

Thank you again so very much for listening to Father God and sending me Pastor Prince's teaching on grace......and thank you so much for wanting a copy of Brother Jerry Savelle's book!

May the Amazing Grace of our Lovely Lord Jesus be yours in abundance!

lovesblessing

PS. Got the email for addy chg.......

 

[amdntstr]

OK I have skimmed this thread and this is what I was always taught.

When we are born again we no longer have a sinful nature, but rather a Godly nature. In otherwords, we are not sinners, but the righteousness of God in Christ.

But we can and will occasionally slip up, less so the more mature we are in the Word. All sin will seperate us from God. When we sin we are to ask for fogiveness for that sin and then it is gone as if we never sinned. But even in the slip we are still the righteousness of God in Christ and not a sinner. But we still need to ask for forgivenss for the sin then we can forget about it and it is like we never sinned.

This is different that if we are born again and then never turned our backs on sin. In other words, we continue to do the same things as if we were never born again. This will seperate us from God because even though we are born again we are still living in the flesh and not the spirit.

The intent of the heart is what makes the difference. If we are in fellowship with God and we do our best to never sin again, our sins are forgiven the second we ask. An we are still the righteousness of God in Christ.

But if we do not make that decision to turn our backs on sin and continue living in the flesh then our sins are not forgiven until we repent of those sins and turn our backs on it and then do our best to never sin again. And then we will be restored.

But as long as we are following after the Spirit and doing our best we do not need to be retored over and over again, we just need to ask for forgiveness for the slip and it is as if we never sinned.

Thoughts?

 

[God_Owned]

OK I have skimmed this thread and this is what I was always taught.

When we are born again we no longer have a sinful nature, but rather a Godly nature. In otherwords, we are not sinners, but the righteousness of God in Christ.

But we can and will occasionally slip up, less so the more mature we are in the Word. All sin will seperate us from God. When we sin we are to ask for fogiveness for that sin and then it is gone as if we never sinned. But even in the slip we are still the righteousness of God in Christ and not a sinner. But we still need to ask for forgivenss for the sin then we can forget about it and it is like we never sinned.

This is different that if we are born again and then never turned our backs on sin. In other words, we continue to do the same things as if we were never born again. This will seperate us from God because even though we are born again we are still living in the flesh and not the spirit.

The intent of the heart is what makes the difference. If we are in fellowship with God and we do our best to never sin again, our sins are forgiven the second we ask. An we are still the righteousness of God in Christ.

But if we do not make that decision to turn our backs on sin and continue living in the flesh then our sins are not forgiven until we repent of those sins and turn our backs on it and then do our best to never sin again. And then we will be restored.

But as long as we are following after the Spirit and doing our best we do not need to be retored over and over again, we just need to ask for forgiveness for the slip and it is as if we never sinned.

Thoughts?

I can agree with you on the following:

"When we are born again we no longer have a sinful nature, but rather a Godly nature. In other words, we are not sinners, but the righteousness of God in Christ."

On some of your following points I differ from you:

The Bible doesn't qualify the type of sin that God forgives, i.e. "...occasionally slip up..." You can be the worst of the worst backsliders that ever lived and God has still forgiven you.

Factually God has already forgiven us of all sin, so our sins can't be unforgiven from God's side of things wheather we repent of not. We may not forgive ourselves as sin does cause our own hearts to condemn us.

What sin does is take us out of fellowship with God. This has noting to do with God's forgiveness, which He has already extended to all for all sin, save blasphemy of the Holy Ghost. This can also be overcome, but this is for another discussion.

Consider the highlighted portions of the following verses.

1 John 1:6-10

6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

1 John 2:1-12
1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.
7 Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning.
8 Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth.
9 He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now.
10 He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him.
11 But he that hateth his brother is in darkness, and walketh in darkness, and knoweth not whither he goeth, because that darkness hath blinded his eyes.
12 I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name's sake.

The way I read this is that, when we are in the light, the blood continually cleanses us as we continually repent in favor of God's ways and will for our lives. When we are in the dark, we are forgiven when we ask for forgiveness and that same blood is still there to cleanse us of all sins. Then we have an opportunity to turn our backs on sin and again be eligible to receive that continual cleansing of the blood.


I do agree with you that the intent of the heart is an important issue.

 

[amdntstr]

I can agree with you on the following:

"When we are born again we no longer have a sinful nature, but rather a Godly nature. In other words, we are not sinners, but the righteousness of God in Christ."

On some of your following points I differ from you:

The Bible doesn't qualify the type of sin that God forgives, i.e. "...occasionally slip up..." You can be the worst of the worst backsliders that ever lived and God has still forgiven you.

Factually God has already forgiven us of all sin, so our sins can't be unforgiven from God's side of things wheather we repent of not. We may not forgive ourselves as sin does cause our own hearts to condemn us.

What sin does is take us out of fellowship with God. This has noting to do with God's forgiveness, which He has already extended to all for all sin, save blasphemy of the Holy Ghost. This can also be overcome, but this is for another discussion.

Consider the highlighted portions of the following verses.

1 John 1:6-10

6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

1 John 2:1-12
1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.
7 Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning.
8 Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth.
9 He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now.
10 He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him.
11 But he that hateth his brother is in darkness, and walketh in darkness, and knoweth not whither he goeth, because that darkness hath blinded his eyes.
12 I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name's sake.

The way I read this is that, when we are in the light, the blood continually cleanses us as we continually repent in favor of God's ways and will for our lives. When we are in the dark, we are forgiven when we ask for forgiveness and that same blood is still there to cleanse us of all sins. Then we have an opportunity to turn our backs on sin and again be eligible to receive that continual cleansing of the blood.


I do agree with you that the intent of the heart is an important issue.

I agree that we were forgiven at the cross. Just like our healing was done at the cross.

We still have to receive it and ask to receice forgiveness when we sin or "slip up".

But we can't receive forgiveness when we are still walking in darkness with no intent to turn our backs on those sin and are not obedient to the Word.

 

[followjesus777]

Songbird,

As mentioned earlier, this would mean that the Christian can be in and out of Christ like 50 times a day, which really does not make sense.



The Bible does not talk about a "relationship" darkness and a "fellowship" darkness. You are either in the light or you are in the darkness. But Christ has brought us out of the kingdom of darkness into the light. We ARE in the light, whether we've sinned today or not.

And if sin puts the Christian in darkness, then that wld mean that most Christians are in darkness most of the time -- if we are truly honest about sin -- becos anything that is not of faith is sin -- that means when we worry, or doubt, we also sin -- these being the 'bigger' sins of unbelief.

But lets bring this thing back to 1 Jn 1:9. If it is talking about the Christian having to confess his sins everytime he sins, then it again begs the question: How many times can a Christian be cleansed of ALL unrighteousness?

The answer and my point is this : ONLY ONCE. therefore, that verse is not for Christians to use to confess sins and be made righteous over and over again and again....

(((AMEN!))) You have a EXCELLENT understanding of our Salvation "BY Grace ALONE" "ONLY BY THE BLOOD ATTONEMENT"...Which Glorifies the Lord alone! Not by works of Anykind!(Galations!)

There is no harm is confessing and asking forgiveness, it is also a good thing if we do not allow the enemy to convince us of lies that we have lost our salvation or righteousness! Because once we are truly saved, it is not 'required' for every single sin in order to be 'saved' ...if it were non of us would be saved because half the time we dont even know when we sin, and also that would mean that 'our works' help 'save' us which is clearly not the case in Galations! Glory to The Lord ALONE!
God bless!