Confess Christ, but has no Understanding of Sin

frienden thalord said:

Sister HE SURE DID
not to mention he purposefully sat down and string by string he made a mean whip.
THEN STOOD and whipped and trashed the entire place.
GOD does not LOVE SIN .

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Amen. Yes He did.

Re: sin....

This comes to mind.

"fear the LORD, and depart from evil." ~Proverbs 3:7

brinny said:

Re: sin....

This comes to mind.

"fear the LORD, and depart from evil." ~Proverbs 3:7

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Very true...

Just look around CF. people will argue with you until your fingers fall off that we are not supposed to "fear God". That God is love and as such we should not have to fear him.

They fail to see the two work together.

ByTheSpirit said:

Very true...

Just look around CF. people will argue with you until your fingers fall off that we are not supposed to "fear God". That God is love and as such we should not have to fear him.

They fail to see the two work together.

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Point taken. Nevertheless in context with the issue raised in this thread, that verse, in particular, ties into why Jesus would say 'I never knew you. Depart from me, ye who worketh in iniquity'.

I don't remember which verse it is, but hearing those words would scare me to death, because He is speaking to those who claim to be "doing things and speaking" on His behalf.

brinny said:

Point taken. Nevertheless in context with the issue raised in this thread, that verse, in particular, ties into why Jesus would say 'I never knew you. Depart from me, ye who worketh in iniquity'.

I don't remember which verse it is, but hearing those words would scare me to death, because He is speaking to those who claim to be "doing things and speaking" on His behalf.

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Matthew 7:21-23

ByTheSpirit said:

Matthew 7:21-23

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Yes these are the verses.

Thank you.

(It would terrify me to hear those words from Jesus.)

I'm glad some are thinking about these things. It is a challenge to grapple with especially when we have all been influenced by the political correctness thinking of today, which run counter to what the bible teaches, and we really need God's help to get hold of the mind of Christ on this.`

To the best of my understanding from scripture, when we gather together as believers, and remember the death of Jesus in the Lord's supper, it is to be a HOLY convocation. This is not a convocation of unbelievers and sinners, for the most part. It is to be like the early church, gathered together in the upper room in one accord, to pray and worship God, and upon this collective gathering the HOLY Spirit comes. If they want to, a congregation can always plan separate meetings or events to which they can invite the lost or seeking, for evangelism etc. (Though by and large I believe we are told to GO into all the world and make disciples, rather than rely on inviting the lost to a church all the time.)

There are ways of dealing with things in a Godly way, since we are told not to exercise authority upon people like the pagans do.......it is not a worldly kind of authority that is to be exercised in the church. But the bible tells us how.....if you have ought against a brother go to him, if he does not repent, then take two or three others, if still no repentance then bring them before the whole church. In other words, turn the heat up slowly giving them space to repent.... until the person either does have a change of heart, or has to leave.

Because Paul said that we are to judge those who are in the church, who name the name of Christ, it is not to condemn the person, but to condemn the sin....in order to save the person. And also the church is responsible to keep itself as a holy vessel, as a fitting place for the Holy Spirit to come........else He will be grieved and leave. Thinking of Jesus having something against one church for "tolerating" the woman Jezebel......we are not to just sit and "tolerate" sin in our midst, but rather correct it in love. We are one body, if one member suffers all suffer with it....and if one member is in sin, it affects the whole body.

Steven Torman said:

I would love help with Paul's position, because i dont say expel, he does. But also remember layer in 2 Corinthians he forgivws the person in question because of repentnence and grief.



This is my question in regards to my context given. How do you expel the person in love. Do you give them conditions to return under?



Where does the church fall into this paradigm, because this is speakimg purely about God's work, not the church's



Do theu happen because of the "come as you are mentality, and let God change you, and we will create a healthy enviroment for that?"

Or is it just straight, revwlation, imstant change, and new person stuff?

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I have had to do this very thing with several brothers and sisters over the years.
You cease company with them, TILL they repent. The churches of today will not do this.
thus the sin has leavened full swing in the churches.
I pray for them , but I refuse company with them. ITs worked before. But if we continue keeping company they wont repent
not only that, we run the risk , as the church has by not considering itself and it got tempted.
In gays , in buddists, muslims , heck people in general you can see good works
but the worst thing to do is assume they must be serving god in their own way.
But this often happens. When the church let the gays in and worse let some even teach
the people saw , what looked like genuine faith. I mean they can sing like we do, pray like we do
do good works to the poor like we do. This snared many into thinking it must be okay with GOD,
TIS why the LORD says be not unequally yoked together.
Its why they do interfaith. In time people will just think we all serve the same God in different ways.
What a farce and a lie. But the people buy anything these days.
We cannot be yoked with unrepentant sinners nor any who serves any other god.
JOHN knew that too..................if any comes brining any other gospel , don't let him in your house, heck don't even bid him god speed.
But that falls on deaf ears too. Well, I wont budge. ITS JESUS and the apostels pattern in all things I will follow
by the grace of GOD till my final and last breath. And I pray many wake up to righteousness and SIN NOT
but I absolutely refuse ten fold to do anything contrary to the pattern of Christ , which pattern the apostels knew and kept and taught.
I am a dinosaur to this generation ..............but MY GOD is whom I serve
and my HOUSE is built on HIS SAYINGS and HIS PATTERN and its the TRUE FOUNDATION forever and amen .

brinny said:

Point taken. Nevertheless in context with the issue raised in this thread, that verse, in particular, ties into why Jesus would say 'I never knew you. Depart from me, ye who worketh in iniquity'.

I don't remember which verse it is, but hearing those words would scare me to death, because He is speaking to those who claim to be "doing things and speaking" on His behalf.

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This is good , very good to ponder on. For its better we repent now , than hear those words later.
Imagine living your whole life , thinking to hear well done
only to be told on that day I NEVER KNEW YOU. Imagine HOW terrifying that would be.
I mean we know what comes after that , Cast alive into a lake of fire
from whence their is no escape , only the heavy torment and the mind which says, WHY didn't I heed the Spirit
Why didn't I love his sayings, Why, but only suffering in that place.
ITS a place GOD does not desire for us, but its real and it wont disappear , just because todays generation don't believe
this can happen. I want us to all seriously ponder What GOD did for us
HOW JESUS , creator , SUFFERED our dues , and then man is going to trodden under foot
JESUS , man twisting His sayings, His patterns to suit mans carnal sin.
If we think the law was harsh , and that under two or three witness a man could die
HOW MUCH WORSE for he or she who has trodden under foot the son of man.
HOW MUCH WORSE. Now this needs to sink in. Back in pauls day the requirement for leaders
heck for young men , even wives , even women, Be GRAVE
but I don't see grave anymore . I See a false image of GOD and of Christ that man has created.
A god that serves us, a god that is okay with sin, a god that calls evil good and good evil.
THEY preaching a false gospel that sets no man free. I volunteer to run them false hirelings OFF.
they got no business in the church , let alone to lead any church.
now , I do pray they repent , because I don't desire any man to perish.
But I will shun their false gosples and lies straight to the dung pile it is.

frienden thalord said:

This is good , very good to ponder on. For its better we repent now , than hear those words later.
Imagine living your whole life , thinking to hear well done
only to be told on that day I NEVER KNEW YOU. Imagine HOW terrifying that would be.
I mean we know what comes after that , Cast alive into a lake of fire
from whence their is no escape , only the heavy torment and the mind which says, WHY didn't I heed the Spirit
Why didn't I love his sayings, Why, but only suffering in that place.
ITS a place GOD does not desire for us, but its real and it wont disappear , just because todays generation don't believe
this can happen. I want us to all seriously ponder What GOD did for us
HOW JESUS , creator , SUFFERED our dues , and then man is going to trodden under foot
JESUS , man twisting His sayings, His patterns to suit mans carnal sin.
If we think the law was harsh , and that under two or three witness a man could die
HOW MUCH WORSE for he or she who has trodden under foot the son of man.
HOW MUCH WORSE. Now this needs to sink in. Back in pauls day the requirement for leaders
heck for young men , even wives , even women, Be GRAVE
but I don't see grave anymore . I See a false image of GOD and of Christ that man has created.
A god that serves us, a god that is okay with sin, a god that calls evil good and good evil.
THEY preaching a false gospel that sets no man free. I volunteer to run them false hirelings OFF.
they got no business in the church , let alone to lead any church.
now , I do pray they repent , because I don't desire any man to perish.
But I will shun their false gosples and lies straight to the dung pile it is.

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Yes and amen! That is why we are told to "examine ourselves".

It is also written that we can "sicken" God.

Now if THAT'S not a most startling wake up call, i don't know what is.

brinny said:

Yes and amen! That is why we are told to "examine ourselves".

It is also written that we can "sicken" God.

Now if THAT'S not a most startling wake up call, i don't know what is.

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and we are to examine ourselves daily and others. IFwe truly have the LOVE that comes
from GOD shed on our hearts by the Holy ghost , then our minds will be all for the welfare of others above even our selves..
Their needs will be placed before ours
their welfare will be put before ours......and DIDNT JESUS do THIS VERY WALK FIRST
HE IS OUR EXAMPLE n all things . HE IS the ONLY WAY unto the Father.
We must walk by the power of grace as DID our LORD.
For if one says he or she abides in Christ they walk as did HE. and JOHN KNEW THIS TOO>
AWAKE peoples and Christ shall give thee LIGHT
or also as paul once said , AWAKE to RIGHTEOUNESS and SIN NOT
or let he who names the name of Christ DEPART from inquity.
ITS FOR INIQUITY we will be told I NEVER KNEW YOU.
Lord, did we do IN YOUR NAME, many good works , cast out demons
IN HIS NAME...........IN HIS NAME and yet he says I NVER KNEW YOU , YOU who worked inquity.
And those who are CHRISTS have CRUCIFIED the affecions and lusts of the flesh.
FOR IN CHRIST ALL THINGS are possible to he or she who believes.
Don't let men preach a powerless gospel to any of us any longer. WE neeed to read JESUS words
and the letters from the apostels and revelations and may it sink in DEEP into our hearts
and let us live with JOY unto the LORD . amen.

frienden thalord said:

and we are to examine ourselves daily and others. IFwe truly have the LOVE that comes
from GOD shed on our hearts by the Holy ghost , then our minds will be all for the welfare of others above even our selves..
Their needs will be placed before ours
their welfare will be put before ours......and DIDNT JESUS do THIS VERY WALK FIRST
HE IS OUR EXAMPLE n all things . HE IS the ONLY WAY unto the Father.
We must walk by the power of grace as DID our LORD.
For if one says he or she abides in Christ they walk as did HE. and JOHN KNEW THIS TOO>
AWAKE peoples and Christ shall give thee LIGHT
or also as paul once said , AWAKE to RIGHTEOUNESS and SIN NOT
or let he who names the name of Christ DEPART from inquity.
ITS FOR INIQUITY we will be told I NEVER KNEW YOU.
Lord, did we do IN YOUR NAME, many good works , cast out demons
IN HIS NAME...........IN HIS NAME and yet he says I NVER KNEW YOU , YOU who worked inquity.
And those who are CHRISTS have CRUCIFIED the affecions and lusts of the flesh.
FOR IN CHRIST ALL THINGS are possible to he or she who believes.
Don't let men preach a powerless gospel to any of us any longer. WE neeed to read JESUS words
and the letters from the apostels and revelations and may it sink in DEEP into our hearts
and let us live with JOY unto the LORD . amen.

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Amen brother!!!!!

and regarding your last sentence:

brinny said:

Amen brother!!!!!

and regarding your last sentence:

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IF we have the LOVE that comes from GOD on our hearts and HIS goodness has led us to repentance and faith IN CHRIST
We know something very deep within . as I KNOW . All I was , was a sorry wicked sinfilled man
that deserved the lowest pit of hell fire . YET one day it was grace . AND THAT HEART would rejoice IN HIS salvation.
It wont matter what comes against it, and it don't matter if I lose all things
what matters is that the LORD SPARED this wicked thing and then gave me a new heart.
I according to the flesh will NEVER deserve heaven, ONLY HELL.
But by his grace ITS HEAVEN BOUND..........now that is the hope that will cause the heart to well up in JOY
and that JOY in the LORD is our STRENGTH.
the JOY of the LORD IS TRULY my STRENGTH. HE is all I need. the ONLY TREASURE and the only riches
a man needs to escape the wrath of GOD . NOW that song I can sing ALL Day LONG.
BUT HIS GRACE CHANGES the one it enters. IT don't leave them powerless in SIN
by the power of grace in Christ we can do all things through HIM who STRENGHTENS US.
my gospel don't point to me or man..........IT POINTS TO CHRIST ALONE and HE IS HIS SAYINGS amen.

frienden thalord said:

IF we have the LOVE that comes from GOD on our hearts and HIS goodness has led us to repentance and faith IN CHRIST
We know something very deep within . as I KNOW . All I was , was a sorry wicked sinfilled man
that deserved the lowest pit of hell fire . YET one day it was grace . AND THAT HEART would rejoice IN HIS salvation.
It wont matter what comes against it, and it don't matter if I lose all things
what matters is that the LORD SPARED this wicked thing and then gave me a new heart.
I according to the flesh will NEVER deserve heaven, ONLY HELL.
But by his grace ITS HEAVEN BOUND..........now that is the hope that will cause the heart to well up in JOY
and that JOY in the LORD is our STRENGTH.
the JOY of the LORD IS TRULY my STRENGTH. HE is all I need. the ONLY TREASURE and the only riches
a man needs to escape the wrath of GOD . NOW that song I can sing ALL Day LONG.
BUT HIS GRACE CHANGES the one it enters. IT don't leave them powerless in SIN
by the power of grace in Christ we can do all things through HIM who STRENGHTENS US.
my gospel don't point to me or man..........IT POINTS TO CHRIST ALONE and HE IS HIS SAYINGS amen.

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Amen brother! Thank you for sharing your testimony. Yes, it IS all about our Christ Who is indeed worthy of our praise. Keep on keepin' on brother.

God bless you.

And I am going to say it one more time, Brinny I love you , and I love you all.
Now let us increase our bible reading time , our prayer time.
And I need men and women everywhere to pray for increase on my heart to only do more for the sakes of others.
to speak as I should , to encourage and warn as I ought.
and anyone who prays for me or others who spread the hope we have
is a partaker of the fruits. some pray for labourers some labor , but all must let the LIGHT shine .
we the members of Christ , if we have HIS SPIRIT , and thus
simple prayers are also fruit . pray the LORD that he send labourers into Americas harvest
we need the gospel as much as any country . So be a partaker of the fruits of righteousness.
and praise the LORD on high , nowand forever . amen.
I love you brinny . Be blessed.

Steven Torman said:

After witnessing to a homosexual, they did say they believed in Jesus as Savior. Attended an Episcopal church - actively. They also saw no conflict betwixt their faith and sexual lifestyle.

Personally, I did not sense the light of God in them. Their faith in Jesus and membership in the church seemed of the same temperment that one would have about joining a gym or book club or any other social club. I wish there was a name for this, some good nomenclature.

But this is also not to say that the charismatic experience of flipping, shouting, and running the aisles is the standard (that is sensationalism through activating adrenaline)

And of course, we have Scriptures like,

1st Timothy 1:8-11 which openly defys the homosexual lifestyle.

And yer we have those in the church who repent and struggle with addictions and besetting sins, and I have even seen people die in the church, still struggling with the sin.

Furthermore, we have Paul saying,

"I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral persons— not at all meaning the immoral of this world... But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother or sister who is sexually immoral or greedy, or is an idolater , reviler , drunkard, or robber.

I am having a bit of a hard time synthesizing all this info into a definitive position that properly represents Christian doctrine, while maintaining mercy, grace, and a non-judgemental position.

I cant think of a way to clarify this further please give some feedback to work with.

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The focus of church has changed from God and Jesus Christ to more of a feel good self help social club. God is incidental to its purpose.

brinny said:

You raise a good point.

What does the Bible say about someone in the church willfully practicing sin?

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A small local church in my neighborhood did actually disfellowship and individual. I was shocked there was this kind of grit these days.

ByTheSpirit said:

Its in Titus 3:10 1 Timothy 1:20 & 1 Corinthians 5:12-13 I actually just read it last night.

I do agree that those who willfully practice sin should not be allowed into fellowship of the Church, but my point was if we are going to turn a blind eye to sins that are more convenient (lying, hate, cheating) then we are hypocrites for denying others.

Can you imagine the power of a church that actually holds its members accountable for their lifestyle? Yikes, talk about the power of God on earth. That would blow the roof off any place

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One of the problems in our churches today is no one visits another in their homes. People at church tend to isolate themselves from others pretending to be someone they are not for social purposes. So what really goes on at church these days is impressing people you really have no connection with. Paul addresses this very plainly with a discussion on women's dress. Oh yeah so does James.

ByTheSpirit said:

Just for clarification I do not condone sin in church. Far from it, only saying if we are going to expel one group of sinners we need to expel all of them.

What reputation do churches have among the world today?

We are hypocrites.

Why?

Because the church is full of people who lie, backstab, cheat, full of hate, adulterous, etc.

Yet we want to act Holy and just when confronted with "more despicable" sins like homosexuality and abortion.

If we hold all people accountable the power of God will truly rule in the church.

I don't think Jesus would mind blowing the roof off some churches figuratively speaking. I know I would love it if the church had that kind of power on a daily basis!

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Maybe it's good to stand for something, rather than nothing. The church isn't a fellowship of Christians these days. There's little to no discipleship going on.