Confess Christ, but has no Understanding of Sin

[Steven Torman]

After witnessing to a homosexual, they did say they believed in Jesus as Savior. Attended an Episcopal church - actively. They also saw no conflict betwixt their faith and sexual lifestyle.

Personally, I did not sense the light of God in them. Their faith in Jesus and membership in the church seemed of the same temperment that one would have about joining a gym or book club or any other social club. I wish there was a name for this, some good nomenclature.

But this is also not to say that the charismatic experience of flipping, shouting, and running the aisles is the standard (that is sensationalism through activating adrenaline)

And of course, we have Scriptures like,

1st Timothy 1:8-11 which openly defys the homosexual lifestyle.

And yer we have those in the church who repent and struggle with addictions and besetting sins, and I have even seen people die in the church, still struggling with the sin.

Furthermore, we have Paul saying,

"I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral persons— not at all meaning the immoral of this world... But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother or sister who is sexually immoral or greedy, or is an idolater , reviler , drunkard, or robber.

I am having a bit of a hard time synthesizing all this info into a definitive position that properly represents Christian doctrine, while maintaining mercy, grace, and a non-judgemental position.

I cant think of a way to clarify this further please give some feedback to work with.

 

[ByTheSpirit]

This whole discussion is the most hypocritical thing the church could do beside worship Baal in service.

How in the world do you say expel homosexuals, when we willingly allow liars, thieves, murderers, inside our church buildings?

Who gets to decide what sins we do and do not discriminate against?

Jesus said LOVE... EVERYONE, even your enemy.

I am not saying give anyone who willfully practices sin a platform to share their worldly lifestyle with others, but if you are going to expel or prohibit them, then shut your doors altogether. Because most who enter that gathering are going to have sin that they will not give up willingly.

 

[frienden thalord]

Its correct. The church has long abandoned the pattern of JESUS and the aposltes.
I actually feel sad and angry about this.
Many gays have no convinction of their sin and yet claim JESUS.
Yet the HOLY GHOST would convict one. The problem is that many teach a false goodness of GOD
and absolutely no severity of God.
a false goodness that teaches the wrong version of love , the wrong image of God
which allows sinners to feel saved and yet still not be saved.
This version they preach on the goodness of GOD
is that HE is a good God, He loves all, their is no hellfire, their is no resseurction of the unjust.
just a goodness of God that has led to the acceptance of sins, rather than the True goodness of GOD
which leads a man to repentance, not acceptance.
It has led the worlds churches to focus on good works. TO do good but not BE good syndrome.
Seeker friendly killed what last good the evangelical church had.
We don't need the wisdom of man to grow a church or to lead a new generation to Christ .
ALL we need is the HOLY SPIRIT and it gives us words to say.
The church has long abandoned one sin , one pattern at a time . When men left off correcting
the churches blossomed in sin. For a little leaven caused the whole lump to swell huge in sin.
Till today the churches are being led to the son of perdition and know it not.
WORLD PEACE WORLD UNITY with HUMANTIY as the god. and soon
the dark king will stand and by PEACE shall destroy many.
Go investigate what they did to our missions...................its an abomination . making
desciples no longer means to JESUS , it means to good works for world peace .
GOD never said IN this world did I send my SON now go and have world peace.
JESUS said do you THINK I came to bring peace on earth. NAY
not to mention God never said , hey for world peace I want you to make a religion which honors all gods
WRONG. That makes GOD furious. MY Friend we are fast approaching the darkest hours
and a time in which under the son of perdition we will see the worlds largest gathering
of all people, all religions , the largest ecumenical gathering ............for world peace
THEN COMES tribulation against all us who refused to bend the knee to this wicked religion.
and its fast approaching.

 

[frienden thalord]

This whole discussion is the most hypocritical thing the church could do beside worship Baal in service.

How in the world do you say expel homosexuals, when we willingly allow liars, thieves, murderers, inside our church buildings?

Who gets to decide what sins we do and do not discriminate against?

Jesus said LOVE... EVERYONE, even your enemy.

I am not saying give anyone who willfully practices sin a platform to share their worldly lifestyle with others, but if you are going to expel or prohibit them, then shut your doors altogether. Because most who enter that gathering are going to have sin that they will not give up willingly.

That is the problem. the church has quit correcting. But I say as paul, it don't matter what sin it is
if one wont repent keep no company with them , in hopes they will be ashamed and repent.
Woe unto men who leave men in sin. THEIR is NO LOVE IN that. the end of sin is death.
CORRECT all sinners who wont repent asap. What a sorry worldy version of love
that wont correct and it sure don't come from GOD.
Because all whom GOD loves he corrects. For HE desires none to perish.
PAUL knew the love of GOD
and his love came with upmost correction .
True love that comes with correction is never loved by those who don't want to hear it.
as paul once made crystal clear
THough the more I love the LESS I BE LOVED.

 

[brinny]

This whole discussion is the most hypocritical thing the church could do beside worship Baal in service.

How in the world do you say expel homosexuals, when we willingly allow liars, thieves, murderers, inside our church buildings?

Who gets to decide what sins we do and do not discriminate against?

Jesus said LOVE... EVERYONE, even your enemy.

I am not saying give anyone who willfully practices sin a platform to share their worldly lifestyle with others, but if you are going to expel or prohibit them, then shut your doors altogether. Because most who enter that gathering are going to have sin that they will not give up willingly.

I am not saying give anyone who willfully practices sin a platform

You raise a good point.

What does the Bible say about someone in the church willfully practicing sin?

 

[ByTheSpirit]

The other thing to bear in mind is when a sinner (no matter what sin it be) truly meets Jesus they will change.

Many testimonies exist of homosexuals/transgender/etc changing their lifestyles because they met Jesus!

Jesus never gave license for people to sin, but yet in his command for them to sin no more they knew he loved them because he didn't look at them in judgement, nor did he cast them aside as unworthy of unclean. He loved them just as they were and in that love, they knew they had to change.

That is what love does! It changes people! I think of my first true love. I was untamable, but when I met her everything changed. I wanted to be faithful to her. I wanted to spend time with her. When she asked me to stop acting foolishly I did because of love.

Telling people their lifestyle is okay and not sinful is not love, it is complacency. Whether it be a habitual liar, a murderer (someone with hate in their heart) or a sexually immoral person.

Jesus met their needs where they were. Then when he said, "Go and sin no more." They did just that.

We should never give up on people in this life. No matter how awful they may seem to be. Because God's love saved even Paul, a man who was bent on destroying Jesus name. It can save anyone else too.

 

[ByTheSpirit]

You raise a good point.

What does the Bible say about someone in the church willfully practicing sin?

It says warn them once and if necessary twice, after that have nothing to do with them and cast them out of fellowship, until they repent.

 

[tstor]

This whole discussion is the most hypocritical thing the church could do beside worship Baal in service.

How in the world do you say expel homosexuals, when we willingly allow liars, thieves, murderers, inside our church buildings?

Who gets to decide what sins we do and do not discriminate against?

Jesus said LOVE... EVERYONE, even your enemy.

I am not saying give anyone who willfully practices sin a platform to share their worldly lifestyle with others, but if you are going to expel or prohibit them, then shut your doors altogether. Because most who enter that gathering are going to have sin that they will not give up willingly.

The church should discipline unrepentant sinners. That may be a homosexual, thief, liar, murderer, etc.

 

[brinny]

It says warn them once and if necessary twice, after that have nothing to do with them and cast them out of fellowship, until they repent.

Do you disagree?

I can't remember off-hand where that Bible verse is. Can you post it?

Thanks, and God bless you.

 

[ByTheSpirit]

The church should discipline unrepentant sinners. That may be a homosexual, thief, liar, murderer, etc.

I fully agree, just raising facts on the situation is all

 

[ByTheSpirit]

Do you disagree?

I can't remember off-hand where that Bible verse is. Can you post it?

Thanks, and God bless you.

Its in Titus 3:10 1 Timothy 1:20 & 1 Corinthians 5:12-13 I actually just read it last night.

I do agree that those who willfully practice sin should not be allowed into fellowship of the Church, but my point was if we are going to turn a blind eye to sins that are more convenient (lying, hate, cheating) then we are hypocrites for denying others.

Can you imagine the power of a church that actually holds its members accountable for their lifestyle? Yikes, talk about the power of God on earth. That would blow the roof off any place

 

[brinny]

Its in Titus 3:10 1 Timothy 1:20 & 1 Corinthians 5:12 I actually just read it last night.

I do agree that those who willfully practice sin should not be allowed into fellowship of the Church, but my point was if we are going to turn a blind eye to sins that are more convenient (lying, hate, cheating) then we are hypocrites for denying others.

Can you imagine the power of a church that actually holds its members accountable for their lifestyle? Yikes, talk about the power of God on earth. That would blow the roof off any place

This applies to ALL sin doesn't it?

On another note, would Jesus fear "blowing the roof off" any place?

 

[frienden thalord]

The other thing to bear in mind is when a sinner (no matter what sin it be) truly meets Jesus they will change.

Many testimonies exist of homosexuals/transgender/etc changing their lifestyles because they met Jesus!

Jesus never gave license for people to sin, but yet in his command for them to sin no more they knew he loved them because he didn't look at them in judgement, nor did he cast them aside as unworthy of unclean. He loved them just as they were and in that love, they knew they had to change.

That is what love does! It changes people! I think of my first true love. I was untamable, but when I met her everything changed. I wanted to be faithful to her. I wanted to spend time with her. When she asked me to stop acting foolishly I did because of love.

Telling people their lifestyle is okay and not sinful is not love, it is complacency. Whether it be a habitual liar, a murderer (someone with hate in their heart) or a sexually immoral person.

Jesus met their needs where they were. Then when he said, "Go and sin no more." They did just that.

We should never give up on people in this life. No matter how awful they may seem to be. Because God's love saved even Paul, a man who was bent on destroying Jesus name. It can save anyone else too.

Having unrepentant sinners be separated out , is not giving up on them at all. Its keep the others safe.
Just ponder that. Not only that , but look what paul did. He gave a few over to destruction of flesh, some sort of affliction.
so they would LEARN not to blaspheme. In hopes they would repent.
But we have to not keep company with any who says they are a believer , and yet in sin and wont repent when they are warned.
The first step in correction is this.
IF the churches wherein all these sinners, gays, adulterers , liars , whatever the sin,
IF one day the church just picked back up the bible and read SOUND DOCTRINE
you would be amazed at what could happen. Sure you might lose some, but some would also repent .
We have to return to the pattern of Christ and the Aposltes in all things.
WE must . its the pattern of our FOUNDATION , of the aposltes and prophets JESUS himself the corner stone.
WE must . With all our heart we must preach sound doctrine again. IT gives instruction IN RIGHTOUESNESS
its good for CORRECTION , edification , so that the people of GOD may be thoroughly furnished unto all good works.
I ask you all, if any is in a church where it leaders are not grave , leave it.
it they behold not the goodness and severity of GOD , leave it.
the leaders are supposed to guide the church . IF the leaders doctrine stinks , the church blossoms in sin.
IF your church is focusing on good works but not sound doctrine , FLEE IT
we need SOUND DOCTRINE back. and we also need to be doing good works by grace.
But if any is sitting week after week , in churches that wont read revelations , that wont warn men to repent
that teach basically lets do good works , yet say nothing about BEING good, FLEE IT now.

 

[ByTheSpirit]

This applies to ALL sin doesn't it?

On another note, would Jesus fear "blowing the roof off" any place?

Just for clarification I do not condone sin in church. Far from it, only saying if we are going to expel one group of sinners we need to expel all of them.

What reputation do churches have among the world today?

We are hypocrites.

Why?

Because the church is full of people who lie, backstab, cheat, full of hate, adulterous, etc.

Yet we want to act Holy and just when confronted with "more despicable" sins like homosexuality and abortion.

If we hold all people accountable the power of God will truly rule in the church.

I don't think Jesus would mind blowing the roof off some churches figuratively speaking. I know I would love it if the church had that kind of power on a daily basis!

 

[frienden thalord]

Its in Titus 3:10 1 Timothy 1:20 & 1 Corinthians 5:12-13 I actually just read it last night.

I do agree that those who willfully practice sin should not be allowed into fellowship of the Church, but my point was if we are going to turn a blind eye to sins that are more convenient (lying, hate, cheating) then we are hypocrites for denying others.

Can you imagine the power of a church that actually holds its members accountable for their lifestyle? Yikes, talk about the power of God on earth. That would blow the roof off any place

EXACTLY . if we turn the eye to the many sins , yet just go after ONE , we are Nuaght but hyprocrites.
ITS Why I often stress ALL of JESUS sayings and say do not pick and choose . we either keep HIS sayings or we don't.
their is no gray. SIN , all sins must be corrected asap. We are in dire straits , I fear greatly for masses all over the world.
I have never seen a falling away like this . Never, and its speeding up like a train cart rushing full force down hill.
We are running out of time. And the people NEED to repent now. OR risk perdition, when the son of perdtion stands to deceive all soon.

 

[brinny]

Just for clarification I do not condone sin in church. Far from it, only saying if we are going to expel one group of sinners we need to expel all of them.

What reputation do churches have among the world today?

We are hypocrites.

Why?

Because the church is full of people who lie, backstab, cheat, full of hate, adulterous, etc.

Yet we want to act Holy and just when confronted with "more despicable" sins like homosexuality and abortion.

If we hold all people accountable the power of God will truly rule in the church.

I don't think Jesus would mind blowing the roof off some churches figuratively speaking. I know I would love it if the church had that kind of power on a daily basis!

Jesus "blew the roof off" many churches in Revelation, didn't He?

The bottom line is, it's about ALL sin.

Isn't it?

And you are correct, if sin is allowed and a blind eye is turned to it, what happens is that the church is simultaneously turning their back on God.

Jesus spoke on this.

Didn't He?

The bottom line is that it's about the "fear of the Lord" (a reverential respect for God). God is holy. To dismiss God is to not take Him or sin seriously, and thus to allow it, because it doesn't matter, and that is because there is no reverent fear of God.

The bottom line is:

God is not mocked.

Is He?

 

[frienden thalord]

Its so clear to see, If we have the eyes to see.
Ponder this. look at how simple it is.
HOW does the son of perdtion destroy many. THROUGH peace
now go and behold the churches, from rick warrens PEACE plan
to interfaith to all over the churches , they are being taught to focus on peace and good works with all men .
WHO ON earth do we think this mindset IS LEADING US TOO.
THE SON OF PERDTION , wake up, I beg you all wake up now. We aer running out of time.
the transgressors have reached the full. What happens when they do.
WHEN the transgressors have reached the full, THEN stands a KING understanding dark sentences
who , BY PEACE shall destroy many.
We are headed right for the MONSTER and so few see it.
THEY will see him as a man of peace, love , unity , THEY WONT see Him for who and what HE IS.

 

[frienden thalord]

Jesus "blew the roof off" many churches in Revelation, didn't He?

The bottom line is, it's about ALL sin.

Isn't it?

And you are correct, if sin is allowed and a blind eye is turned to it, what happens is that the church is simultaneously turning their back on God.

Jesus spoke on this.

Didn't He?

Sister HE SURE DID
not to mention he purposefully sat down and string by string he made a mean whip.
THEN STOOD and whipped and trashed the entire place.
GOD does not LOVE SIN .

 

[frienden thalord]

Todays churches would see JESUS as a hater of mankind , of world peace of love ,you name it
this world and most churches are being groomed NOT for the one WHO comes in the name of the FATHER
for that would mean repentance and correction so as the bride be made ready.
NO , its being groomed for one who comes in his own name. and he they will hear.

 

[ByTheSpirit]

Todays churches would see JESUS as a hater of mankind , of world peace of love ,you name it
this world and most churches are being groomed NOT for the one WHO comes in the name of the FATHER
for that would mean repentance and correction so as the bride be made ready.
NO , its being groomed for one who comes in his own name. and he they will hear.

That first statement is incredibly sad but true beyond words