Confederate Flag

jj3pa · Jan 28, 2004

My personal opinion is that its amazing that we have an open enough society that we can even discuss the ability to fly the flag of a group that tried to overthrow the government ... many other countries would not only disallow the flying of the flag, but also mention of it

I think flying it can be in bad taste sometimes ... over a state courthouse for instance ... and I personally don't understand the attraction, but I'm not a southerner.

It seems that some consider it almost as repulsive as some view a swatstika ...

GraceReborn · Jan 29, 2004

As far as the flag in question being a symbol of honor and pride to Southerners, That I have no problem with. I think it has more to do with the intention of what you are trying to say by flying ANY flag be it Confederate, American, Christian... even Nazi. I think many people who claim the flag to be a symbol of bigotry DO have a point, although normally they use the Civil War, and the South's stance in it, as the ammunition in their arguments. Unfortunately, this wasn't the only flag used by the South during the Civil War. I think if someone wanted to make a case of the flag being used specifically in a racist manner, they should look to the battle of Civil Rights in the south during the 50's and 60's. If someone were to look up the specific state flag history of these states, they may be surprised to find out that during this struggle, ALL throughout the country, it was the governors of certain states at this time that changed their state flag to INCLUDE the Confederate Battle Flag as a direct response to Kennedy's proclamation of nationwide de-segregation. There is no better argument to remove these symbols from the state flags. In Georgia, there is still disagreements over the flag changing. The state flag now is the original symbol of the state (or close to it) like many states throughout the country. Check your state's flag history (for those of you in the south; like me) and see the progression of your state's flag and corresponding images as it changes with events of American history.

Some people will always ask me, "Why don't quote your sources? Where do you get this stuff from?" I answer them the same way I do when I speak about things from the Bible; "True knowledge comes from the journey. Look it up and see for yourself. Don't take my word for it. I'm no expert."

GraceReborn · Jan 29, 2004

By the way... I live in Georgia. And happen to be a proud southern man. Thanks

xMinionX · Jan 29, 2004

Whatever the rational is being used for people loathing and being offended by the Confederate flag, the fact is that people are terribly offended by it. This, in itself, isn't a reason to take it down. But it has become a symbol for oppression against black people, and will likely remain so for a long time.

Just because a symbols original meaning was harmless does not mean that it's present meaning is. Just look at the Swastika. It used to be a very spiritual symbol, until Hitler and the Nazis defiled it. http://www.manwoman.net/swastika/swastika.html

praying · Jan 29, 2004

xMinionX said:
Whatever the rational is being used for people loathing and being offended by the Confederate flag, the fact is that people are terribly offended by it. This, in itself, isn't a reason to take it down. But it has become a symbol for oppression against black people, and will likely remain so for a long time.

Just because a symbols original meaning was harmless does not mean that it's present meaning is. Just look at the Swastika. It used to be a very spiritual symbol, until Hitler and the Nazis defiled it. http://www.manwoman.net/swastika/swastika.html

Man can take anything and twist into something ugly and perverted, we specialize in that.

shomethadoor · Jan 30, 2004

jj3pa said:
My personal opinion is that its amazing that we have an open enough society that we can even discuss the ability to fly the flag of a group that tried to overthrow the government ... many other countries would not only disallow the flying of the flag, but also mention of it

I think flying it can be in bad taste sometimes ... over a state courthouse for instance ... and I personally don't understand the attraction, but I'm not a southerner.

It seems that some consider it almost as repulsive as some view a swatstika ...

The Confederacy didn't try to overthrow the gov't, they believed it had usurped the Constitution (which it had) so they just wanted to break away from it and be left alone to govern themselves, which is totally different.

Lillithspeak · Jan 30, 2004

GraceReborn said:
By the way... I live in Georgia. And happen to be a proud southern man. Thanks

You know what? I have a question, and I'm not being snotty. Just what is it you're all so proud of when you say you're proud of being a southerner? I could list many things that wouldn't make me say that, so I just thought I'd ask and see if I get a real answer.

Key Of David · Jan 30, 2004

shomethadoor said:
The Confederacy didn't try to overthrow the gov't, they believed it had usurped the Constitution (which it had) so they just wanted to break away from it and be left alone to govern themselves, which is totally different.

Its funny...but I as a southerner got the opposite from what he said...until I read this.....most southerners feel it was the north who overthrew the government and upset the peace, etc....not the southerners. We call it the War of Northern Aggression.

shomethadoor · Jan 30, 2004

Hi Key,

Yeah, I think War of Northern Agression is better than "Civil War" as there was nothing too civil about Lincoln's invasion and deliberate waging of total war on the Southern civilian population and causing the deaths of over 600,000 people. Not to mention all the persecution of Northern dissenters, including suspending Habeas Corpus and shutting down newspapers, etc. etc.

Dale · Jan 31, 2004

*
This just in...
On the news out of Tampa, FL, Janurary 30, a high school girl has received a ten day suspension for passing out a petition to have Confederate Flag tee shirts banned from school.

Officials claim that handing out the petition would be legal if she had obtained permission from the Office first. (Would they have given this permission?)
Even the folks who are wearing the Stars and Bars think her punishment is too harsh!
In a related story, her younger brother claims to have been threatened since this happened.

*

tulc · Jan 31, 2004

causing the deaths of over 600,000 people.

That seems a little high, unless you mean for both sides?
tulc(who could find a listing for 290,000 southern dead)

IrishJohan · Jan 31, 2004

Lillithspeak said:
I certainly wouldn't want it flown in my hometown.

I don't have a problem with it. If you are talking about at city hall, I might depending on the circumstances.

I don't call myself British either.

Nor would I if I were a Scot. Do you have similar objections to the Union Jack, the flag that was used by the English in oppressing the Scots and exterminating their independence?

IrishJohan · Jan 31, 2004

fromtheright said:
When the issue of the Confederate flag atop Alabama's state capitol came up, my first view was to oppose pulling it down as part of our history but my wife made a point which convinced me otherwise: blacks in Alabama are citizens too and the flag is the symbol of a period and a "nation" in which their ancestors were enslaved, whether it directly symbolizes slavery or not, or whether the Civil War was fought over slavery or not. When I add to that that the flag was hoisted in the midst of the depths of battles over segregation (yes, I understand the Constitutional issues involved in Brown v. Board, as to states' rights) is further argument against its being there. South Carolina and Georgia can wrestle this issue for themselves, but this is one white Alabamian who is proud that the Stars and Bars came down, and that the State Capitol became the Capitol for all of Alabama.

Similar to my own reasons why I wouldn't want it flying over the Capitol of Virginia either. I have no problem with the flag, but other Virginians do. Besides, the war ended long ago and I see no reason to fight over this.

IrishJohan · Jan 31, 2004

mhatten said:
How did Ham become brown?

Left in the oven too long? Happens to me every time I try to cook...

Oh wait, you were speaking of a different Ham. Never mind.

IrishJohan · Jan 31, 2004

TheRealityOfMan said:
What I find even more sensitive though is the English flag - the flag of St. George. This is can often be associated with racism and white supremacy even (it actually reminds me of Ku Klux Klan gear).

Besides the KKK's weird idea of "racial" history, this is probably because the Confederate Battle Flag or Southern Cross was modeled after the English flag. It's not the fault of the English and they should be happy with their flag.

It all depends on the spirit in which it is flown I guess.

Too true.

IrishJohan · Jan 31, 2004

jj3pa said:
My personal opinion is that its amazing that we have an open enough society that we can even discuss the ability to fly the flag of a group that tried to overthrow the government ... many other countries would not only disallow the flying of the flag, but also mention of it.

We are a weird country, aren't we? Yes it's true. We didn't have any drumhead trials and mass executions of the "rebel" leadership afterwards, nor was Reconstruction nearly as harsh as it probably would have been in other coutries where revolutions failed.

IrishJohan · Jan 31, 2004

xMinionX said:
Whatever the rational is being used for people loathing and being offended by the Confederate flag, the fact is that people are terribly offended by it. This, in itself, isn't a reason to take it down. But it has become a symbol for oppression against black people, and will likely remain so for a long time.

Just because a symbols original meaning was harmless does not mean that it's present meaning is. Just look at the Swastika. It used to be a very spiritual symbol, until Hitler and the Nazis defiled it. http://www.manwoman.net/swastika/swastika.html

Yet Hindus use this symbol even today. Should they change it? I don't think so.

IrishJohan · Jan 31, 2004

tulc said:
That seems a little high, unless you mean for both sides?
tulc(who could find a listing for 290,000 southern dead)

Over 600,000 deaths by soldiers from both sides. Still our costliest war ever. As for civilian deaths mostly in the South, but some in the North, I do not know what the figures are. I suspect they would be around 250,000.

Key Of David · Jan 31, 2004

IrishJohan said:
Left in the oven too long? Happens to me every time I try to cook...

Oh wait, you were speaking of a different Ham. Never mind.

L O L !!

That was too good!

southron · Feb 6, 2004

Dear fellow Christians,
As a Southern Heritage activist I would like to add my 2 cents into this topic on the Confederate Flag. To what many might not believe they were not only White Confederates but they were Confederates from different races who fought and died defending there homes and families wearing the Grey of the Confederate States of America. I have attached two photos of Mr. HK Edgerton to this post. Mr. Edgerton's (a Black Man) ancesters just like my ancesters fought for the Confederate States of America. Just as I honor my ancesters cause so does he with his march across Dixie in defense of the Confederate Flag. Heritage Not Hate

God Bless,
Southron

Confederate Flag

Active Member

Saved

Saved

Contributor

Snazzy Title Goes Here

Active Member

The Umbrella

Well-Known Member

Active Member

Senior Veteran

loves "SO'S YER MOM!! posts!

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Active Member

Attachments

Similar threads

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency