Confederate Flag

[praying]

Well, no. That is a rather discredited idea, as the races generally enjoyed pretty good relations in the South, while in the North blacks were looked down upon every bit as much, if not more so. This included many Abolitionists, who were for freeing the slaves not so much out of Christian/humanitarian principle, but because they had an interest in economically crippling the South. The whole thing is more complex than most textbooks issued in government run public schools would have you believe. I therefore refer you to Tom DiLorenzo’s book The Real Lincoln or even better, R.L. Dabney’s A Defense of Virginia, which I believe can be purchased for a nominal price from Reformation Heritage books.

I have no objections to their being free, but to the way it was accomplished, and to the idea that it was the principal reason for the South's secession and the North's motivation for prosecuting the War. [/font][/color]

You are kidding correct, a good relationship, please do explain to poor little misinformed, misdirected me what is so good about a slave and master relationship?

I agree that in both the North and South Africans were looked down on, but it was in the South that we as people were owned, some northern states had slavery early on but that was abolished long before the civil war.

Without a doubt it was tied to economics and the issue of slavery was secondary to the North however that does not jusitfy or validate owning slaves.

I can see where you are coming from now though with your reference "I have no objections to their being free, but to the way it was accomplished

They, them, those people, those pronouns when used usually is not a good thing. I am glad you have no objection to our freedom, and how that was accomplished is irrelavent to me.

 

[DixieBelle]

I agree that in both the North and South Africans were looked down on, but it was in the South that we as people were owned, some northern states had slavery early on but that was abolished long before the civil war.

I'm sure I've mentioned this before, but there were still states in the Union (Northern States) who still owned slaves and those slaves were not freed until AFTER the war.

 

[praying]

I'm sure I've mentioned this before, but there were still states in the Union (Northern States) who still owned slaves and those slaves were not freed until AFTER the war.

I will take your word for that Dixiebell.

 

[DixieBelle]

I will take your word for that Dixiebell.

You don't have to take my word for it!

http://blackhistory.harpweek.com/3CivilWar/CivilWarTimeline.htm

http://www.2souls.com/main/Knowledge Warehouse/Emancipation Proclamation.htm

 

[Key Of David]

The German government has bent over backwards in its attempt to acknowledge and repent for the sins of the Third Reich..... I don't bear them any ill will...But then none of my family was sent to the camps.

Those who fly the flag in Germany and the US are called racists.. Does that tell you something?

It tells me some will look for anyway they can to take the easy way out and judge a person by where he/she lives. Period. I am against some of the abominable ways people were treated back then....but I am admittedly not as educated on this as some others. I do know the northerners used this kind of rhetoric to justify keeping us out of heavy trade with our English brothers and sisters. It was one of the first things they attacked.....duh? That should tell you something. Raise the flag....no pun intended.

I'm glad things changed, but I can't praise the north for their hypocritical attitudes and use of aggression on a people who clearly were mislead. These were fellow countrymen whom they were supposed to be doing the "better thing" with, since they were you know. They tore this country literally in half simply to get their way, cover up why it happened to this day, and expect southerners to believe it. Why don't you think most Africans of the time didn't rush to the north? A lot of them tried....and were treated so badly....some of them starved to death because the north didn't want them there.....the majority. Africans VERY SLOWLY gained acceptance down here as the south began to rebuild and attitudes and beliefs slowly changed. They had to...they would not have survived in such large numbers in the north. I'm not saying everything is all hunk dorry down here even to this day....I don't ever think it will be for African Americans. Racism will always be here......but attacking a flag, like the liberals say attacking a country on the issue of terrorism, is not going to stop racism. That flag flew and continues to fly now, not because of slavery or even in regard to race at all....but because of why that war was started by the north and what the war was really about. We fly it in order to say....we will never forget what happened (aside from slavery)...and why. The north, as a whole, cannot take this back, and cannot ever take that flag out of existance. You took our government....but you will never take our hearts and our core as a people.

 

[SUNDAE]

It tells me some will look for anyway they can to take the easy way out and judge a person by where he/she lives. Period. I am against some of the abominable ways people were treated back then....but I am admittedly not as educated on this as some others. I do know the northerners used this kind of rhetoric to justify keeping us out of heavy trade with our English brothers and sisters. It was one of the first things they attacked.....duh? That should tell you something. Raise the flag....no pun intended.

I'm glad things changed, but I can't praise the north for their hypocritical attitudes and use of aggression on a people who clearly were mislead. These were fellow countrymen whom they were supposed to be doing the "better thing" with, since they were you know. They tore this country literally in half simply to get their way, cover up why it happened to this day, and expect southerners to believe it. Why don't you think most Africans of the time didn't rush to the north? A lot of them tried....and were treated so badly....some of them starved to death because the north didn't want them there.....the majority. Africans VERY SLOWLY gained acceptance down here as the south began to rebuild and attitudes and beliefs slowly changed. They had to...they would not have survived in such large numbers in the north. I'm not saying everything is all hunk dorry down here even to this day....I don't ever think it will be for African Americans. Racism will always be here......but attacking a flag, like the liberals say attacking a country on the issue of terrorism, is not going to stop racism. That flag flew and continues to fly now, not because of slavery or even in regard to race at all....but because of why that war was started by the north and what the war was really about. We fly it in order to say....we will never forget what happened (aside from slavery)...and why. The north, as a whole, cannot take this back, and cannot ever take that flag out of existance. You took our government....but you will never take our hearts and our core as a people.

I can't really say much now ( gotta get back to work)! I don't think any of us believe the North is lilly white in all this. Their actions, in my opinion, are far from praiseworthy. Concerns for the bottom line and political ambitions all played a part.

Honestly.... I'm not a huge flag waver, so I can't understand the attachment to a piece of material on a pole. That said, I respect your right to fly it should you so choose, but understand the history behind it is will never be good for African Americans!!!

 

[Key Of David]

I can't really say much now ( gotta get back to work)! I don't think any of us believe the North is lilly white in all this. Their actions, in my opinion, are far from praiseworthy. Concerns for the bottom line and political ambitions all played a part.

Honestly.... I'm not a huge flag waver, so I can't understand the attachment to a piece of material on a pole. That said, I respect your right to fly it should you so choose, but understand the history behind it is will never be good for African Americans!!!

Understood....and I agree that if I were an African American I would probably not like it. I am somewhat torn on this issue as I feel strongly against what was going on in the South and know it had to end one way or another, but on the other hand I know that the South was betrayed and almost completely destroyed for selfish reasons. I do see yours and others points of views, at the same time as a Southerner have my own.....OY VEY!!

This country is based on a series of balances. For the south the flag meant preservation....for blacks it meant inslavement and torture......for the north it meant rebellion against what they were trying to achieve. There are weights on all of these balances and when one tips in one's favor the others cry no fair. Its the same with the way our government is setup, our political parties, supply and demand in the economy, etc. There's going to have to be some understanding on this issue if everyone is going to get anything out of this.

 

[praying]

Understood....and I agree that if I were an African American I would probably not like it. I am somewhat torn on this issue as I feel strongly against what was going on in the South and know it had to end one way or another, but on the other hand I know that the South was betrayed and almost completely destroyed for selfish reasons. I do see yours and others points of views, at the same time as a Southerner have my own.....OY VEY!!

This country is based on a series of balances. For the south the flag meant preservation....for blacks it meant inslavement and torture......for the north it meant rebellion against what they were trying to achieve. There are weights on all of these balances and when one tips in one's favor the others cry no fair. Its the same with the way our government is setup, our political parties, supply and demand in the economy, etc. There's going to have to be some understanding on this issue if everyone is going to get anything out of this.

Well I appreciate your understanding!

 

[SUNDAE]

Understood....and I agree that if I were an African American I would probably not like it. I am somewhat torn on this issue as I feel strongly against what was going on in the South and know it had to end one way or another, but on the other hand I know that the South was betrayed and almost completely destroyed for selfish reasons. I do see yours and others points of views, at the same time as a Southerner have my own.....OY VEY!!

This country is based on a series of balances. For the south the flag meant preservation....for blacks it meant inslavement and torture......for the north it meant rebellion against what they were trying to achieve. There are weights on all of these balances and when one tips in one's favor the others cry no fair. Its the same with the way our government is setup, our political parties, supply and demand in the economy, etc. There's going to have to be some understanding on this issue if everyone is going to get anything out of this.

This is a very balanced view and I appreciate it as well!!!

 

[Key Of David]

I greatly appreciate yours and learn a lot from threads such as this. I expected this thread when it was first started to be closed LONG before...just like any other really controversial one on this forum.....but it seems I was wrong. The discussion on here has been so intelligent and mature I'm kindof taken back. If we don't want the truth we will never have the best God's world has to offer for any of us....so I think its great when we can all learn from each other.

 

[ltngbolt]

How far are we going to bend in this country when someone is offended. Frankly I am so sick and tired of hearing how laws need to be passed and traditions need to cease because someone might, heaven forbid, be offended. We are raising what are bound to be a whole generation of children that won't know how to deal with disappointment and not getting their own way. The reality is some things in life will offend you and some things you are not going to like. The best attribute of this country has been the ability for people to exercise the right to be offensive. Perhaps we should just have a country of robots who all act alike.

 

[O'Factry]

Please excuse me if this has been brought up in this thread. I really don't want to wade through the whole thing.

Did anyone notice the cavalry in Iraq wearing 19th century cavalry hats? Do the native Americans find this symbol offensive? Do the Iraquis quake in their sandals in fear that they face the same fate as native Americans? How do you FEEL about that?

 

[praying]

Please excuse me if this has been brought up in this thread. I really don't want to wade through the whole thing.

Did anyone notice the cavalry in Iraq wearing 19th century cavalry hats? Do the native Americans find this symbol offensive? Do the Iraquis quake in their sandals in fear that they face the same fate as native Americans? How do you FEEL about that?

I was not aware that they did and surprised it was allowed. What difference it would make to the Iraqi's is probably very little, unless they were/are quite knowledgable in American history, and even then I don't that it would make them anymore fearful than if they were in normal calvary wear.

 

[Pastor_Benjamin]

If simbolizes hate in the minds of a group of people so it should not be honored. We should spend more time honoring God and not a flag. Its offensive to some people so they should be respected.

 

[O'Factry]

If simbolizes hate in the minds of a group of people so it should not be honored. We should spend more time honoring God and not a flag. Its offensive to some people so they should be respected.

I agree. I find some flags to be extremely offensive. Those flags should not be allowed to fly. For instance; red china, ussr, cuba, nazi germany, imperial japan, islam, and worse of all; UN!

 

[Pipe Dreamer]

I am a Southerner whose family has lived here for over 200 years. I've researched my family history top to bottom. I've found horse thieves, murderers, the rich, the poor, a Hessian soldier who fought for the Brits during the Revolution, and 15 Confederate veterans. Of those 15 Confederates, 14 owned no slaves ever. The 15th soldier, my GreatX3 Grandfather held an apprenticeship bond over 2 black orphans to teach them a trade. He did not own either one of them. How can it be stated that they were fighting to keep a black man down or enslaved, when they owned none of them, and according to their geographic area of the NC foothills and mountains, they hardly ever saw blacks on a regular basis? 2 of these men died on the battlefield fighting for the Constitution and freedom of the Southern States.

 

[jameseb]

I didn't own any slaves and neither did any of you. My ancestors probably didn't either, but it's the one act of decency, regarding their history, that we could all support to honor their pain, a small act of redemption and honor if you ask me.

"Decent?" Should we also get rid of the Union flag as well? After all, it flew over slavery. Just a thought.

Why do so many refuse to even do this?

Because doing so is in fact suggesting it IS a racist symbol and would suggest I feel ashamed for my heritage, for which I am not. A Southerner and a Slaver are *not* one in the same.


~J

 

[ee-o-safe']

 

[ee-o-safe']

I have many ancestors who fought for the CSA during the war and to deny the Confederate flag is to deny them! The Confederate flag battle is a lost cause because of the average Americans lack of interest in the war and its causes. Anyone who takes the time to study the war will find the truth , otherwise dont try defending or attacking something you know nothing about!!!
P.S. The motto on the Confederate seal is Deo Vindice(God vindicates)

Joseph

 

[ee-o-safe']

Please excuse me if this has been brought up in this thread. I really don't want to wade through the whole thing.

Did anyone notice the cavalry in Iraq wearing 19th century cavalry hats? Do the native Americans find this symbol offensive? Do the Iraquis quake in their sandals in fear that they face the same fate as native Americans? How do you FEEL about that?

Being a prior Cav man I will let you in on this, its a tradition for Cav pilots to wear the old cowboy hats.
I've seen pics of Cavalry aviators in Vietnam wearing them, maybe they started it Im not for sure.

Joseph