Conditionalism

[JM]

Do you believe the Reformed confessions teach Conditionalism?

 

[mothcorrupteth]

What do you mean by "conditionalism"?

 

[JM]

I had a hard time finding a clear definition. When I googled it I found a lot of fuss and fighting going on and a lot of name calling. I did find this definition from a forum that I think does a good job:

Conditional time salvationists teach salvation in time (experiential justification or justification in the court of the conscience) is by works.
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[JM]

Another from a forum:

Conditional time salvation divorces justification in time from eternal justification, which is no gospel at all. Unless time-salvation is in full and perfect harmony with salvation transcendent of time, we are of all men most miserable!​

 

[twin1954]

Another from a forum:

Conditional time salvation divorces justification in time from eternal justification, which is no gospel at all. Unless time-salvation is in full and perfect harmony with salvation transcendent of time, we are of all men most miserable!
​

In my experience with Primitve Baptists they believe in what they call time salvation which is conditioned upon joining the church. Of courese they also believe that eternal salvation comes to the elect whether they ever hear the Gospel of Christ or not.

 

[twin1954]

While the confessions, WCFand LBC, teach assurance by works I don't think that they teach a conditional salvation though their view of the Law comes pretty close.

 

[Osage Bluestem]

I had a hard time finding a clear definition. When I googled it I found a lot of fuss and fighting going on and a lot of name calling. I did find this definition from a forum that I think does a good job:

Conditional time salvationists teach salvation in time (experiential justification or justification in the court of the conscience) is by works.
​

Yes absolutley. They teach conditionalism. All of the conditions for justification must be met before justification is legal. That being said, the Reformed confessions teach that God meets all of the necessary conditions for the person to be legally saved as opposed to the synergist view that man must cooperate with God to meet the legal conditions to be saved.

Justification is 7th on the list in the order of time.

In the Reformed camp, the ordo salutis (order of salvation in time) is 1) election, 2) predestination, 3) gospel call 4) inward call 5) regeneration, 6) conversion (faith & repentance), 7) justification, 8) sanctification, and 9) glorification. (Rom 8:29-30)

Monergism :: Ordo Salutis

 

[mothcorrupteth]

Ah, you have to watch out for those Primitive Baptists. You don't want to succumb to their barefoot, cave-dwelling, drum-beating, spear-throwing ways.

 

[Whisper of Hope]

Ah, you have to watch out for those Primitive Baptists. You don't want to succumb to their barefoot, cave-dwelling, drum-beating, spear-throwing ways.

Um....my mother is a Primitive Baptist. She has never been a barefoot, drum-beating cave-dweller, and she has never thrown a spear in her life. I find your statement (whether being sarcastic or not) to be highly offensive and insulting to my mother.

 

[mothcorrupteth]

Well, I'm sorry you take offense, but try having a sense of humor. The joke is not in the characterization of Primitive Baptists, but in my pretended ignorance of the meaning of the term.

 

[Whisper of Hope]

I accept your apology. I suppose I should have a sense of humor, however, I found your comment to be offensive nonetheless.

 

[mothcorrupteth]

I would make the joke even if I were Primitive Baptist myself.

 

[Osage Bluestem]

I would make the joke even if I were Primitive Baptist myself.

I can't think of a joke for the OPC.

 

[mothcorrupteth]

Yeah, unfortunately it's not as ridiculous to picture Presbyterians running around with icons and onion domes. Especially since that's become a reality with Federal Vision.

 

[Osage Bluestem]

Yeah, unfortunately it's not as ridiculous to picture Presbyterians running around with icons and onion domes. Especially since that's become a reality with Federal Vision.

Please explain Federal Vision. I'll start a thread for it.

 

[mothcorrupteth]

Well, to get everyone back on topic... As I read it in some online discussions, it's hard to get a handle on what conditionalism is. Like, there are some people who talk about mere assurance of salvation from good works, but there are other people who talk about real salvation by good works. But I can be sure of one thing: the WCF says zip-all about any "time salvation."

 

[Apologetic_Warrior]

Do you believe the Reformed confessions teach Conditionalism?

No, such a notion is a contradiction in terms, Reformed believers affirm salvation by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone, for the glory of God alone. Two of the Reformers primary reasons for dissent from RCC were justification by faith alone and Sola Scriptura. I suppose reading them out of context we could come to such a conclusion.

 

[heymikey80]

I can't think of a joke for the OPC.

We all share the same plain black suit. I get it in three weeks.

 

[heymikey80]

Well, to get everyone back on topic... As I read it in some online discussions, it's hard to get a handle on what conditionalism is. Like, there are some people who talk about mere assurance of salvation from good works, but there are other people who talk about real salvation by good works. But I can be sure of one thing: the WCF says zip-all about any "time salvation."

Um, yeah.

Q. 72. What is justifying faith?

A. Justifying faith is a saving grace, wrought in the heart of a sinner by the Spirit and Word of God, whereby he, being convinced of his sin and misery, and of the disability in himself and all other creatures to recover him out of his lost condition, not only assenteth to the truth of the promise of the gospel, but receiveth and resteth upon Christ and his righteousness, therein held forth, for pardon of sin, and for the accepting and accounting of his person righteous in the sight of God for salvation.

Q. 73. How doth faith justify a sinner in the sight of God?

A. Faith justifies a sinner in the sight of God, not because of those other graces which do always accompany it, or of good works that are the fruits of it, nor as if the grace of faith, or any act thereof, were imputed to him for his justification; but only as it is an instrument by which he receiveth and applieth Christ and his righteousness.

Q. 74. What is adoption?

A. Adoption is an act of the free grace of God, in and for his only Son Jesus Christ, whereby all those that are justified are received into the number of his children, have his name put upon them, the Spirit of his Son given to them, are under his fatherly care and dispensations, admitted to all the liberties and privileges of the sons of God, made heirs of all the promises, and fellow-heirs with Christ in glory.

Q. 75. What is sanctification?

A. Sanctification is a work of God’s grace, whereby they whom God hath, before the foundation of the world, chosen to be holy, are in time, through the powerful operation of his Spirit applying the death and resurrection of Christ unto them, renewed in their whole man after the image of God; having the seeds of repentance unto life, and all other saving graces, put into their hearts, and those graces so stirred up, increased, and strengthened, as that they more and more die unto sin, and rise unto newness of life.

Q. 76. What is repentance unto life?

A. Repentance unto life is a saving grace, wrought in the heart of a sinner by the Spirit and Word of God, whereby, out of the sight and sense, not only of the danger, but also of the filthiness and odiousness of his sins, and upon the apprehension of God’s mercy in Christ to such as are penitent, he so grieves for and hates his sins, as that he turns from them all to God, purposing and endeavouring constantly to walk with him in all the ways of new obedience.

Q. 77. Wherein do justification and sanctification differ?

A. Although sanctification be inseparably joined with justification, yet they differ, in that God in justification imputeth the righteousness of Christ; in sanctification of his Spirit infuseth grace, and enableth to the exercise thereof; in the former, sin is pardoned; in the other, it is subdued: the one doth equally free all believers from the revenging wrath of God, and that perfectly in this life, that they never fall into condemnation the other is neither equal in all, nor in this life perfect in any, but growing up to perfection.

 

[Timothew]

I had a hard time finding a clear definition. When I googled it I found a lot of fuss and fighting going on and a lot of name calling. I did find this definition from a forum that I think does a good job:

Conditional time salvationists teach salvation in time (experiential justification or justification in the court of the conscience) is by works.
​

That's not the definition of conditionalism.

In Christian theology, conditionalism or conditional immortality is a concept of special salvation in which the gift of immortality is attached to (conditional upon) belief in Jesus Christ. This doctrine is based in part upon another theological argument, that if the human soul is naturally mortal, immortality ("eternal life") is therefore granted by God as a gift. This viewpoint stands in contrast to the more popular doctrine of the "natural immortality" of the soul.