Concerned/Trying to Understand the Logic

nyj · Mar 29, 2004

NOTE: Some of the comments in this thread can be construed as badmouthing the moderators, who volunteer their time here and try to do as good a job as possible. If there are things which are offensive, the responsibility rests on the non-staff to report them and bring it to the attention of the moderators. Therefore, before you start talking about "how bad this place is/has become" people need to look at their own apathetic response to the situation and re-evaluate THAT first.

Christy4Christ · Mar 29, 2004

I have never said how bad the place has become nyj, I hope you don't mean me. I just have a concern for the people being led away and I was trying to get input on a solution.

SuperBunny · Mar 29, 2004

You aren't supposed to understand the logic. If you do, you will come to some very disturbing conclusions that you will come to accept, or you will go the other way and become like them. Many of us know exactly what you mean, for I've seen posts on this by many, and we are not fooled.

Bushido216 · Mar 29, 2004

Christy4Christ said:
Shelby, but when I asked the question to a 17 year old kid about what made him turn away from Christianity, he told me that it happened right here at CF on that board. He said he came here to spread the word about Christ and ended up not beleiving in Him anymore after losing a debate with an Athiest.

This is no secret as it is posted in a thread on GA.

There is also a comment there that I find disturbing and that was "A lot of people are led away from the Lord on this board"

So then we should improve our debating skills. It's not his fault that an atheist came up with better answers than He.

I mean, answer this question. Can you prove that God exists?

Bushido216 · Mar 29, 2004

Gen 22:14 said:
If blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is the one unforgivable sin, do we sin by allowing it, and not speaking up? Would this be an evil action on our part? Or in the language of sin, would not defending our faith to the fullest be a sin of omission? Sometimes, letting a sin go without trying to rebuke it can be just as bad as if we were the one committing the sin ourself.

I, for one, am not afraid to defend my faith. I am not afraid of evil because I am protected by the blood of the Lamb. I am clothed in armor and I wear His badge and shield proudly!

Jesus Lives! Alleluia!
Donna

So, rather than defend our faith, you'd rather we shut everything down, plug our ears up, and scream "I'm not listening!"?

Christy4Christ · Mar 29, 2004

Bushido216 said:
So, rather than defend our faith, you'd rather we shut everything down, plug our ears up, and scream "I'm not listening!"?

I think you have a great point. You were there last night and saw how quickly certain people are to just bash others. I was the target of some rather mean people, to say the least. I think that the debating should be allowed for sure. I just hate seeing people get mean and nasty and sarcastic and bash God and Christianity and other people just BECAUSE they are Christian. Can you see where I am coming from a little?

They were actually bashing me and calling me a bad mother for raising my son with a strong faith in God. That to me is horrible

nyj · Mar 29, 2004

SuperBunny said:
You aren't supposed to understand the logic. If you do, you will come to some very disturbing conclusions that you will come to accept, or you will go the other way and become like them. Many of us know exactly what you mean, for I've seen posts on this by many, and we are not fooled.

Who are you talking to?

Bushido216 · Mar 29, 2004

Christy4Christ said:
I think you have a great point. You were there last night and saw how quickly certain people are to just bash others. I was the target of some rather mean people, to say the least. I think that the debating should be allowed for sure. I just hate seeing people get mean and nasty and sarcastic and bash God and Christianity and other people just BECAUSE they are Christian. Can you see where I am coming from a little?

They were actually bashing me and calling me a bad mother for raising my son with a strong faith in God. That to me is horrible

You're absolutely right. It was horrendous how they treated you. I wanted to write a thread about how people need to respect everyone else. Unfortunately I'm not sure that it won't be closed.

I suppose, however, that I should anyway.

Regardless, that sort of treatment only elucidates how much more work we have to do. I don't go into GA because I know that I am a horrible debater when it comes to that field. However, that shouldn't stop others who are better at it from spreading the word.

Gen 22:14 · Mar 29, 2004

Well, I guess I have been TOTALLY misunderstood! I am NOT in anyway slamming moderators. What I AM saying is that we have more than a few contradictions going on here.

First of all, I would not be altogether proud of being representative of the world. I do believe the NT teaches us to be in the world, but not OF the world. So by stating that CF represents the world is a MAJOR contradiction of Christian theology. Now to say we want to "witness" to the world, ok, I can buy that.

Secondly, I was not referring to debating with atheists. I can handle that. The main point that seems to have been lost in the shuffle is that a board for atheists on a Christian Forum is an oxymoron. Jesus admonished His disciples for complaining about outsiders preaching in His name. He said if they are not against me they are for me so leave them alone. I don't think I know of ANYONE more against Christ than an atheist! Even ignostics claim not to know. But an atheist denies Divinity, let alone Christ's divinity. So how can you say someone who teaches against Christ bears being a full fledged member of a CHRISTIAN FORUM? Sorry, but I really don't get it. Even the early Chruch didn't let catechumins fully participate. Wonder why? Maybe just for this reason? To keep something Holy and Sacred?

I am not saying we shouldn't have a place to witness to unbelievers. I AM saying that I see the humor in the contradictory nature of the combination!

And, there IS indeed evil in the world. I am not at all comfortable knowing that we leave ourselves open to attack! I feel that there needs to be some form of checks and balances as to who can post and in which boards! I feel that, and again this is just MY discernment, that the "elders" and more knowledgeable members should address these issues on forum. I mean if the point is to share the faith, then lets let people like Michelina, KennySE, Geocajun and NYJ do the talking for us. We all have valid points to make and a story to tell, but hey, I'm no Scott Hahn or Fulton Sheen! And when we are talking grave matters of faith, I prefer to hide behind "the knowing ones!" (LOL)

Just be careful who you "consort" with.....just as good begets good, evil begets evil. A word to the wise.

Donna

ShannonMcCatholic · Mar 29, 2004

Anybody else fond of the song "Refiner's Fire"? If people "lose" their faith because a discussion on the internet, I would suppose that their faith was only superficial in the first place-- and that can be good, because as we are stipped down- it gives Jesus the chance to refine us and build us back up.

Results are not instantaneous-- everything we write here should be seen as seeds, or water, or sunshine, or care of the soil.... but seeds don't turn into 50 ft. trees overnight.

Who really cares what people have to say- just ask Mary to claim them for Jesus, pray ardently for their soul, and be confident, as that is absolutely a prayer according to the will of Jesus-- as we are all called to the vocation of holiness.

Let's remember that little St. Therese is the patroness of missionaries equal to St. Francis Xavier who traveled the world , though she never stepped foot outside her convent. Our prayer when offered with great love, and holy confidence can do wonders-- much more than our words, in my opinion......

Bushido216 · Mar 29, 2004

Gen 22:14 said:
Well, I guess I have been TOTALLY misunderstood! I am NOT in anyway slamming moderators. What I AM saying is that we have more than a few contradictions going on here.

I can't believe I read this post. Is this the summation of your arguements?

First of all, I would not be altogether proud of being representative of the world. I do believe the NT teaches us to be in the world, but not OF the world. So by stating that CF represents the world is a MAJOR contradiction of Christian theology. Now to say we want to "witness" to the world, ok, I can buy that.

What I believe was said is that, like the world, this forum has members of many different faiths and opinions. We don't represent the world, we are representative of the world. Does this register?

Secondly, I was not referring to debating with atheists. I can handle that. The main point that seems to have been lost in the shuffle is that a board for atheists on a Christian Forum is an oxymoron. Jesus admonished His disciples for complaining about outsiders preaching in His name. He said if they are not against me they are for me so leave them alone. I don't think I know of ANYONE more against Christ than an atheist! Even ignostics claim not to know. But an atheist denies Divinity, let alone Christ's divinity. So how can you say someone who teaches against Christ bears being a full fledged member of a CHRISTIAN FORUM? Sorry, but I really don't get it. Even the early Chruch didn't let catechumins fully participate. Wonder why? Maybe just for this reason? To keep something Holy and Sacred?

Is this your forum? No. It's Erwin's. For the record, there are Christians only and Open forums. If you don't like the scary atheists, stay in the former. As well, part of any ministry is outreach to the non-believers. Are you suggesting that evangelizing isn't Christian? Please, let us not go down that route.

Why should an atheist be allowed to be a member of a Christian forum? Because it's a forum! Not a worship group. This isn't a parish or something, is it? No. It's internet software. Don't get you knickers in a twist.

And for the last time, atheists aren't evil. They just haven't met anyone who can convince them otherwise. Is that their fault or ours?

I am not saying we shouldn't have a place to witness to unbelievers. I AM saying that I see the humor in the contradictory nature of the combination!

I again don't understand why you're in a twist about this. Do you want an exclusive club or something? If you want I can install an Invision Board and let you have a blast.

And, there IS indeed evil in the world. I am not at all comfortable knowing that we leave ourselves open to attack! I feel that there needs to be some form of checks and balances as to who can post and in which boards! I feel that, and again this is just MY discernment, that the "elders" and more knowledgeable members should address these issues on forum. I mean if the point is to share the faith, then lets let people like Michelina, KennySE, Geocajun and NYJ do the talking for us. We all have valid points to make and a story to tell, but hey, I'm no Scott Hahn or Fulton Sheen! And when we are talking grave matters of faith, I prefer to hide behind "the knowing ones!" (LOL)

This is so typical. I'll paraphrase. "I'm not comfortable with letting people here other opinions because I'm not sure that we have done enough to protect them from hearing other people speak." That is really weak. Let everyone hear everyone else's opinion. That's the best way to strengthen someone's faith in God. At least that's how it worked for me. I can't believe that you want to shunt people away from the outside world because you are afraid that you will lose people!

Just be careful who you "consort" with.....just as good begets good, evil begets evil. A word to the wise.

Another word to the wise, experience the world outside of the nutshell that is your tiny life.

Donna

I'm Brian, pleasure to meet you!

Christy4Christ · Mar 29, 2004

Don't get you knickers in a twist

Bushido, is this anyway to talk to a woman who is old enough to be your Grandmother? Take it easy friend...

Disciple 3 · Mar 29, 2004

Bushido216 said:
So then we should improve our debating skills. It's not his fault that an atheist came up with better answers than He.

I mean, answer this question. Can you prove that God exists?

Pure logic proves God exists. Science proves he exists. The atheistic Big Bang is contradictory to the science they hold so religously (no pun intended) to. Matter neither is made or destroyed, it only changes forms. Something can't come from nothing, where did it all come from?

It is not that they had better answers it was that he was new to his faith. If there are young people here that are just accepting God and the first board they hit is the atheist board, how can that do any good? I think that was her point and people should be more open to it instead of just jumping on her, Bushido. Would you disrespect your grandmoher like that? I thought not, have some respect for mine. Sarcasm is not called for.

Miss Shelby · Mar 29, 2004

ShannonMcMorland said:
Anybody else fond of the song "Refiner's Fire"? If people "lose" their faith because a discussion on the internet, I would suppose that their faith was only superficial in the first place-- and that can be good, because as we are stipped down- it gives Jesus the chance to refine us and build us back up.

Results are not instantaneous-- everything we write here should be seen as seeds, or water, or sunshine, or care of the soil.... but seeds don't turn into 50 ft. trees overnight.

Who really cares what people have to say- just ask Mary to claim them for Jesus, pray ardently for their soul, and be confident, as that is absolutely a prayer according to the will of Jesus-- as we are all called to the vocation of holiness.

Let's remember that little St. Therese is the patroness of missionaries equal to St. Francis Xavier who traveled the world , though she never stepped foot outside her convent. Our prayer when offered with great love, and holy confidence can do wonders-- much more than our words, in my opinion......

Debi1967 · Mar 29, 2004

Breathe

inhale exhale inhale exhale
before this becomes an all out flamefest in here between each other everyone have more RESPECT for each other. Obviously this is a touchy subject to alot of people.

bigsierra · Mar 29, 2004

I don't see any flames yet, just a bit of smoke

Bushido216 · Mar 29, 2004

Sorry, but science doesn't say one thing or another about God. Infact, neither does Big Bang theory. The creation myth was falsified 170 years ago. And, yes, there are many theories as to the first cause.

Where people go on the internet isn't under the control of Erwin. What's to stop people from going to vanallens.com/forum ? Isn't it more wise that they experience atheism in a controlled environment?

I didn't know that she was your grandmother, and I appreciate you defending her. But that doesn't make her position any less defensible. She's preaching in the wrong forum to the wrong crowd about the dangers of having a GA forum. If she doesn't like it, she should probably talk to Erwin about it.

Bushido216 · Mar 29, 2004

Christy4Christ said:
Bushido, is this anyway to talk to a woman who is old enough to be your Grandmother? Take it easy friend...

Age doesn't, on its own, validate one's position.

Nor, might I add, does lack of age automatically invalidate one's position (geocajun!).

Debi1967 · Mar 29, 2004

bigsierra said:
I don't see any flames yet, just a bit of smoke

Hey I did say BEFORE it became.......OK so the smoke is getting a little thick.....cough cough ok I will stop now bad debiwebi *debiwebi smacks her own hand* LOL

Disciple 3 · Mar 29, 2004

Bushido216 said:
Sorry, but science doesn't say one thing or another about God. Infact, neither does Big Bang theory. The creation myth was falsified 170 years ago. And, yes, there are many theories as to the first cause.

Where people go on the internet isn't under the control of Erwin. What's to stop people from going to vanallens.com/forum ? Isn't it more wise that they experience atheism in a controlled environment?

I didn't know that she was your grandmother, and I appreciate you defending her. But that doesn't make her position any less defensible. She's preaching in the wrong forum to the wrong crowd about the dangers of having a GA forum. If she doesn't like it, she should probably talk to Erwin about it.

You should really read the post again. You said "how can you prove God exists", I said, "science proves it". You obviously didn't understand the context in which this statement was made. The ATHEISTIC Big Bang contradicts other science. Matter is niether created or destroyed, something can't come from nothing. Matter never is destroyed it only changes forms. I said that proves God from simple logic. No scientist directly says that there is definitive proof of a God or no god. But there laws say there is. How can we say that matter is neither created or destroyed and cannot come from nothing and yet say there is no God? It is impossible!

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