Computergames age-rating

[Lynden1000]

Why is it always music and video games that get picked on? I can turn on the news or pick up the newspaper and hear about all kinds of horrific violence- for real.

 

[Steezie]

Ive played hundreds of games, including mini-games or starters, probably upwards of a thousand in my life.

Many were violent. Ive killed probably MILLIONS of people on the computer. Ive fired billions of rounds of ammunition. I can land a sniper shot reliably from 3,000 yards on Battlefield 2 (I dont do it often but I CAN do it) and I can slaughter an army four times my size in Rome: Total War. Ive taken on four Warships with a Barque in Age of Pirates and won, resulting in the deaths of over 2,000 sailors.

I listen to primarily heavy metal and rock including Slayer, Buckcherry, Ozzy, Rob Zombie, and many many more.

I have watched hundreds (Probably in the low thousand) of violent movies in my life. I ate a pizza while watching the Alien series and I watched Saw and Saw 2 without feeling the least bit sick or disturbed.

Now, consider all that. I have had...maybe 7 or 8 total acts of violence in my entire life. Only one of which was planned and all of them were for good or justifiable reasons.

I am a living testament to the fact that seeing violence does not make you violent.

 

[kopilo]

One thing ahead:
I do not know if this is the right sub-forum to discuss this, so if not please move this thread.

Now to topic:
In Germany a recent school-shooting has occured, and now the blame is laid on computergames and heavy metal.

Shifting the blame; people are just trying to outlaw what they don't understand. No amount of gaming and heavy music alone will cause a student to shoot a bullet, by all means I believe that ratings should be used and enforced by the legal guardian.

In fact I'd go so far as to say in my case heavy music and violent gaming (yes both at the same time ) prevented me from being violent whilst I was at high-school because I had something to chill out on, do something mind-numbing and yet a venting out of anger.

I agree sticker ratings on games is only addressing the symptoms not the causes.

 

[madetoworship]

I agree with Kopilo, The parents are the ones that need to enforce their views onto the kids. I mean, disipline them for goodness sake.

 

[tocis]

(can anyone think of a book that has ever been banned for being too violent?)

Not literally "too violent", but... try to get your hands on a copy of mein kampf over here in Germany, and soon you'll answer to your own question in the affirmative.

 

[tocis]

I loooove the blame game. Something aweful happens quick find something to blame, you cannot blame the person who did it that is too easy and produces no ratings/votes. So what do we blame, lets see... we need to find something that we do not ourselves do but people like the perp would do, hmmm kids you say. What are kids into these days? DnD? Heavy metal? Hip-hop? Harry potter? Video games... Ok ppl we have the list lets all shout and yell at these so we do not feel bad for ignoring our own kids which is probably the reason they do what they do.

Aye, sometimes you don't know whether you should laugh or puke when you encounter the blame game...

...let's see, of how many things have I been guilty by association yet? *scratches head*

I'm a psychopath (for playing fantasy RPGs)
I'm a satanist (for liking, among other styles, heavy metal)
I'm a reich wing neofascist (because I participate in online communities and everyone knows that only nazi scum does that *cough cough*)

Aaaah, and the funny combinations of rumors that abound sometimes... over a period of a few months, all according to the very same people, I was:
- in love with girl X
- homosexual
- the boyfriend of, and almost engaged with, girl Y

Now it that's not funny, especially in that particular order, then what is?
(Well, at least I did find girl X quite cute, and I had been in love with girl Y once )

Oh well, I'm getting waaaay to OT here. Thanks for your attention, now back to our regular schedule

 

[sister_maynard]

Banning games is just convenient because it addresses the surface aspect; digging deeper would be too difficult and would require blaming actual kids. The anti-bullying programs in elementary school may help a little, but they don't stop people from treating each other horribly; they're just propaganda meant to make the school system look better.

 

[marblehead]

I'm not sure if this whole blame game will ever stop, and it seems to be counterproductive.

Politicians and others did the same after Columbine by blaming Marilyn Manson even though I think they listened to Rammstein, not Manson, and played Doom, which doesn't matter either way because I listen/listened to Manson and Rammstein and have played Doom, but never shot up my school. The stigma caused by these idiots did bring on more idiots at my school making up more rumors though.

 

[wanderingone]

Even if it were the video games, it's amazing that the parents who should be watching their children get no blame at all.

Exactly. If my kids are exhibiting an obsession with violent games, reading material movies etc.. and noticeably entranced by the actual acts of violence as opposed to the complete picture I hope I'd notice and start looking at what's happening inside their heads.

Personally I don't care if they rate or don't rate video games, I'm not opposed to some sort of guide to what the content of things but the number of people who are blind to content based on ratings is amazing. No matter what the rating is on toys and games I still consider if it's appropriate for MY kid, cause that's MY job.

 

[wanderingone]

Not literally "too violent", but... try to get your hands on a copy of mein kampf over here in Germany, and soon you'll answer to your own question in the affirmative.

Well that's just "convincing the world we really do regret the past" while so many other countries manage to build up genocidal behavior without such treatises and begs the question, while we carefuly monitor neo nazi groups in Germany what have we really learned about preventing the notion of ethnic cleansing as a means to national reform? (and looking at various nations around the world since the demise of Hitler tells us we've not learned very much, and apparently haven't even learned appropriate intervention...)

I guess that's off topic so.. I'll bring it on back to video games.. assuming we are all familiar with neo nazi and aryan nation type video games that are all the rage among those types of folks the question is.. does the content create the mindset or does the mindset create the games and the way the games are played?

And.. does having an outlet like video games for negative ideas actually prevent most who indulge from acting out in real life when all else is fairly balanced in their life?

 

[marblehead]

assuming we are all familiar with neo nazi and aryan nation type video games that are all the rage among those types of folks

Could you elaborate about what you mean by "neo nazi and aryan nation type video games" and "those types of folks"?

 

[RavenPoe]

Who are we going to demonize next? D&D players?

You haven't read much Chick or listened to people in the mid 80's?

http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0046/0046_01.asp

 

[shye]

blaming something or someone else for something you did is just irresponsible.

 

[wanderingone]

Could you elaborate about what you mean by "neo nazi and aryan nation type video games" and "those types of folks"?

I mean video games where the goal is something like rounding up Jews and gunning them down which are played at or sold at various sites run by members of various white power type groups. So those types of folks would be those who belong to white power type groups...not sure what's not clear about it unless you're completely unfamiliar with the games and the sites. And no, I won't link them.

 

[white dove]

Strictening the rating system only would adresse the "symptomes" and not the causes.

Age-ratings on games don't work too well. Why? First of all, you need authoritative figures (parents/legal guardians, ideally) to help enforce it. Seeing "M" for Mature on the outside of a videogame is almost laughable at best because you know that the chances of that game getting into the hands of a younger child is pretty good anyway. That, and for the most part, venders don't really care who they sell items to. Their goal is to sell & make money, not to teach any sort of moral lesson to your children.


I don't remember the first time I played Mortal Kombat (it probably was around the time of 12/13ish or so), but kicking butt in that game didn't necessarily make me want to go rip someone's head off. Sure, videogames do have the ability to run up the heart rate and making a person more tense (esp. if you're trying really hard not to die at the end of level 7)...but moreso than a movie or page-turning novel? If a child has a problem separating reality from fantasy, that is truly a scary thing...and that is something that a watchful, caring, concerned adult should notice. If they are paying attention.

Personally I don't care if they rate or don't rate video games, I'm not opposed to some sort of guide to what the content of things but the number of people who are blind to content based on ratings is amazing. No matter what the rating is on toys and games I still consider if it's appropriate for MY kid, cause that's MY job.

I think this is absolutely wonderful...yet, unfortunately so rare to find.

 

[No72]

You haven't read much Chick or listened to people in the mid 80's?

Actually I did, two or three days ago. Was quite funny, especally the book burning (can't do that here in good old Germany*lol*).

Personally I don't care if they rate or don't rate video games, I'm not opposed to some sort of guide to what the content of things but the number of people who are blind to content based on ratings is amazing. No matter what the rating is on toys and games I still consider if it's appropriate for MY kid, cause that's MY job.

Well, about the content description, some time ago I held a lenghty presentation freaturing USK and PEGI. The latter includes such descriptions, but ist not compulsory, while the former is. And guess what system we have over here.

Why? First of all, you need authoritative figures (parents/legal guardians, ideally) to help enforce it.

You see, over here in Germany the state doesen't trust the people enough for that. Besides it is a nice field for politcians to make some gain.
And so, not only creative liberty suffers, but also the grown-ups*grrrr*.