Computer program "mutate"

[wagsbags]

I just remembered that in intro programming we had to decode a scrambled message. Each letter stood for a different one and to solve it we used a function called "mutate" which randomly substituted one word for another, over and over. At each step it applied the substitution to the message and checked the dictionary for words. It did this until it eventually decoded the message.

So equating "finding more dictionary words" to "more likely to breed" many creationists will claim that this program created information and therefore would not work. Thoughts?

EDIT: I guess my question is really to creationists. How did this program work? The letters appeared random so there was no information but the program seemed to "create" information!! Or do you just think I'm lying and the program actually doesn't work?

 

[nvxplorer]

Dawkins describes a similar experiment in The Blind Watchmaker. He used a jumble of letters and reached the phrase METHINKS IT IS LIKE A WEASEL in 41 generations of cumulative selection.

This simple experiment mimicked the cumulative natural selection in nature, disposing of the fallacious creationist claim that complexity is mathematically impossible.

 

[Pete Harcoff]

What creationists will argue is that the outcome is already determined (i.e. pre-scripted in the program), so it's moot.

 

[wagsbags]

Ok well then let's just say that evolution is fated to turn out a certain way but we just can't predict what way. I suppose a theist could argue god loaded the evolution die for humans, that doesn't invalidate the process.

 

[Jet Black]

What creationists will argue is that the outcome is already determined (i.e. pre-scripted in the program), so it's moot.

i.e. they miss the point of the program. though admittedly, in every generation the outcome of evolution is the same.

 

[Dukey]

I just remembered that in intro programming we had to decode a scrambled message. Each letter stood for a different one and to solve it we used a function called "mutate" which randomly substituted one word for another, over and over. At each step it applied the substitution to the message and checked the dictionary for words. It did this until it eventually decoded the message.

So equating "finding more dictionary words" to "more likely to breed" many creationists will claim that this program created information and therefore would not work. Thoughts?

EDIT: I guess my question is really to creationists. How did this program work? The letters appeared random so there was no information but the program seemed to "create" information!! Or do you just think I'm lying and the program actually doesn't work?

do you have solid evidence that this program actually worked? its a zillion to one odds

 

[random_guy]

do you have solid evidence that this program actually worked? its a zillion to one odds

Not when you combine natural selection with random mutations. The algorithm is called a genetic algorithm and they've been in use in machine learning and artificial intelligence.

I've written several GA's which correctly classified whether mushrooms were poisonous or not based on characteristics. I've seen it work myself. However, you don't need to take my word for it. Look up genetic algorithms. I'm sure there's examples of it on the web.

The key is a population+mutations+natural selection will give you the needed outcome.

 

[troodon]

its a zillion to one odds

Can anyone here express a "zillion" in scientific notation? I've always been curious how large one is

 

[Dukey]

Not when you combine natural selection with random mutations. The algorithm is called a genetic algorithm and they've been in use in machine learning and artificial intelligence.

I've written several GA's which correctly classified whether mushrooms were poisonous or not based on characteristics. I've seen it work myself. However, you don't need to take my word for it. Look up genetic algorithms. I'm sure there's examples of it on the web.

The key is a population+mutations+natural selection will give you the needed outcome.

God made the genetic algorithms though; God made everything

 

[Dukey]

Can anyone here express a "zillion" in scientific notation? I've always been curious how large one is

it depends what youre comparing it too

 

[random_guy]

God made the genetic algorithms though; God made everything

How is this relevant to anything?

 

[Dukey]

How is this relevant to anything?

it means that God is a creationist

 

[random_guy]

Can anyone here express a "zillion" in scientific notation? I've always been curious how large one is

For fun, I typed rand in Matlab and got this number: 0.23113851357429.

The odds of this occurring is 10^-14. It would take 3,000,000 years at picking one number between 0-1 every second (with 14 decimal precision) to get that number.

I guess this is like a zillion to one odds. I guess God helped me beat those odds.

 

[random_guy]

it means that God is a creationist

So did God also make 9/11, the Holocaust, and Hitler?

 

[nvxplorer]

it means that God is a creationist

What does God as creationist have to do with computer programs running genetic algorithms?

 

[random_guy]

What does God as creationist have to do with computer programs running genetic algorithms?

I guess since we showed evidence that evolution works through genetic algorithms, Dukey panicked, and thought hundreds of thousands of Christians would all turn atheist. He had to do something, and that post was something.

 

[FSTDT]

Can anyone here express a "zillion" in scientific notation? I've always been curious how large one is

Its a 1 followed by a gagillion zeroes.

 

[Dukey]

So did God also make 9/11, the Holocaust, and Hitler?

no, satan authored those

 

[Dukey]

What does God as creationist have to do with computer programs running genetic algorithms?

God is in everything; God has to everything to do with everything always; if we dont see it, then were the ones who are paying attention to God

 

[random_guy]

no, satan authored those

But didn't God create Satan? Also, how do you know Satan didn't create genetic algorithms to trick Christians into accepting evolution?