Competition

[peter2]

I assume they are used to believe Christ 's got nothing against competition, and to conclude therefore competition is sane.
Please, do you think Christ 's got something for competition ?
Indeed, it doesn't seems obvious to me Jesus would have agreed to challenge anyone else in a competitive event.
Actually, i wonder whether competition is or not a fertile environment for salvation. Has someone some argument for or against this idea, please ?

 

[Mark Quayle]

"iron sharpens iron"

 

[Halbhh]

I assume they are used to believe Christ 's got nothing against competition, and to conclude therefore competition is sane.
Please, do you think Christ 's got something for competition ?
Indeed, it doesn't seems obvious to me Jesus would have agreed to challenge anyone else in a competitive event.
Actually, i wonder whether competition is or not a fertile environment for salvation. Has someone some argument for or against this idea, please ?

Competition is a game for the young animal perhaps (the youthful human). And parents can make believe wrestle (or such) with children even for the children's sake, and though it's also a metaphor, it seems to be an event that happened in the scripture here -- Bible Gateway passage: Genesis 32:22-32 - New International Version

Our own national sports are more an animal indulgence of a kind though today. But then so are fancy clothing and nice cars/houses and so on.... A limited modest amount is ok for the young, when it doesn't become an end in itself, but instead is a way to be with them. Perhaps badminton is a good example of a fun competitive game that one not need take too seriously, but can be a way for a family to relax in the yard.

 

[peter2]

"iron sharpens iron"

Hi Mark, yes, iron does sharpen iron. But iron is not a living thing, is it ?

 

[peter2]

Competition is a game for the young animal perhaps

Hello Halbhh,
Since Darwin, people think of the living creatures to compete for life, not for challenging each other.
Of course, they can see puppies, for instance playing with each others. But you're right : it's only a game.
You make me think wolves do compete to lead their packs, yes. But should christians follow suit this kind of wild leadership ? Must humans imitate animal world's organisation ? Aren't they instead supposed to try and serve each others ? And,.., has service something to do with competition, where people spend their energies for their own promotion, not for necessary promoting life

As for

it's also a metaphor, it seems to be an event that happened in the scripture here -- Bible Gateway passage: Genesis 32:22-32 - New International Version

, i must admit i didn't think of this struggle of Jakob with God. For you, please,What does this scripture teach us as regards human competitions ?

 

[Mark Quayle]

Hi Mark, yes, iron does sharpen iron. But iron is not a living thing, is it ?

In the use of the saying, in scripture, yes, it is referring to people.

I see no place in scripture that teaches against mere competition. Though, there is plenty of competition we engage in that isn't mere competition. Fighting, strife, jealousy, selfishness, etc etc. are things that can apply to "competition" and Scripture has plenty to say about that. But competition itself, i.e. MERE competition, is not bad. In fact, I would say it is good.

 

[fide]

Hello Halbhh,
Since Darwin, people think of the living creatures to compete for life, not for challenging each other.
Of course, they can see puppies, for instance playing with each others. But you're right : it's only a game.
You make me think wolves do compete to lead their packs, yes. But should christians follow suit this kind of wild leadership ? Must humans imitate animal world's organisation ? Aren't they instead supposed to try and serve each others ? And,.., has service something to do with competition, where people spend their energies for their own promotion, not for necessary promoting life

As for
, i must admit i didn't think of this struggle of Jakob with God. For you, please,What does this scripture teach us as regards human competitions ?

The Lord did say, (Mar 9:35) And he sat down and called the twelve; and he said to them, "If any one would be first, he must be last of all and servant of all."

I once was part of a Christian Motorcycle Club, and at rallies they would have a "slow race". Feet must not touch the ground, no stopping, no going in circles, and the last over the finish line wins. It was very funny, and great fun. It required expert balance, to go as slowly as possible on a motorcycle without falling over or stopping. And the best is the last of all. There's a parable in that.

 

[Halbhh]

Hello Halbhh,
Since Darwin, people think of the living creatures to compete for life, not for challenging each other.
Of course, they can see puppies, for instance playing with each others. But you're right : it's only a game.
You make me think wolves do compete to lead their packs, yes. But should christians follow suit this kind of wild leadership ? Must humans imitate animal world's organisation ? Aren't they instead supposed to try and serve each others ? And,.., has service something to do with competition, where people spend their energies for their own promotion, not for necessary promoting life

Yes, we are to be the opposite of wolves. :=)

At its worst sports is too much like wolves, and at it's best it's individuals at times showing love and grace towards each other. That range of how we can act is sorta like any activity in life, like at a job or an outing, and so on. A bike ride can be companionable or get competitive, or both. If it gets competitive it can be friendly competitive where the people celebrate together, or even have mutual love, at the end. Or it could be without those good things.

 

[WarriorAngel]

I assume they are used to believe Christ 's got nothing against competition, and to conclude therefore competition is sane.
Please, do you think Christ 's got something for competition ?
Indeed, it doesn't seems obvious to me Jesus would have agreed to challenge anyone else in a competitive event.
Actually, i wonder whether competition is or not a fertile environment for salvation. Has someone some argument for or against this idea, please ?

The Apostles said 'Lord they're driving out demons in Your name, should we stop them?' He said 'They cannot be against Me [us]...'

Basically, He allowed them to do so because they were seeing the evidence and proof of the power of His name and they too would follow Him.
Role models [dying for the truth], miracles etc were often the proof of what aids people.

Unless someone desires 'truth' primarily and not only truth but also humility to receive truth, they will have grace to believe the Lord, but they will not go into the depth of the well to receive profound living graces via the sacraments of the Divine instituted Church. They will only survive off the tips of the graces, but will not be shown the depths of which.

"iron sharpens iron"

Tis true. WE have the greatest blessings in the early Fathers of the Church's teachings and writings against heresies.

 

[pdudgeon]

I assume they are used to believe Christ 's got nothing against competition, and to conclude therefore competition is sane.
Please, do you think Christ 's got something for competition ?
Indeed, it doesn't seems obvious to me Jesus would have agreed to challenge anyone else in a competitive event.
Actually, i wonder whether competition is or not a fertile environment for salvation. Has someone some argument for or against this idea, please ?

No I don't think that God approves or uses competition, and I will say why.
The idea of competition was first formed in the heart of satan, while he was still an angel in heaven.
While there he enjoyed everything that the other angels also enjoyed.
But that wasn't enough for him.
He was jealous of Christ, and He wanted to be first in the eyes of God.
What happened was he allowed these thoughts to longer and grow, until they changed him.
He entertained jealousy and hatred in his heart against Christ. And for entertaining and spreading such feelings among the other angels in heaven, God kicked him and his followers out of heaven forever.
That is what competition does.
1. It raises a person's self admiration above where it should be.
2. It encourages devaluation of others.
3. It feeds off of jealousy and feelings of wrongful entitlement.
4. If encouraged, it can lead to war.

So no, IMHO, there is no way that God would support such things happening among His children.
What He does encourage is helping each other, being kind and loving towards each other, and serving each other. Those things are pleasing to Him.

 

[Halbhh]

No I don't think that God approves or uses competition, and I will say why.
The idea of competition was first formed in the heart of satan, while he was still an angel in heaven.
While there he enjoyed everything that the other angels also enjoyed.
But that wasn't enough for him.
He was jealous of Christ, and He wanted to be first in the eyes of God.
What happened was he allowed these thoughts to longer and grow, until they changed him.
He entertained jealousy and hatred in his heart against Christ. And for entertaining and spreading such feelings among the other angels in heaven, God kicked him and his followers out of heaven forever.
That is what competition does.
1. It raises a person's self admiration above where it should be.
2. It encourages devaluation of others.
3. It feeds off of jealousy and feelings of wrongful entitlement.
4. If encouraged, it can lead to war.

So no, IMHO, there is no way that God would support such things happening among His children.
What He does encourage is helping each other, being kind and loving towards each other, and serving each other. Those things are pleasing to Him.

Pride is a more precise word in a way, but it's very useful also to use 'competition' in that particular way you have here, as it highlights how in competition pridefulness can take over very easily. So, that's quite useful to point out.

But also in typical informal competitions that very young children have like running a race together on the playground, for instance, you can see at times it's just for the sheer joy of running together.

At the end they are laughing together, celebrating for a moment.

And a great thing is that adults can do that too. So, we could say that's not really a 'competition' exactly. It's running together.

 

[pdudgeon]

And yes, iron does sharpen iron.
But the purpose of doing so is to improve the iron; not to defeat it or to weaken it.

 

[WarriorAngel]

And yes, iron does sharpen iron.
But the purpose of doing so is to improve the iron; not to defeat it or to weaken it.

Unfortunately pride creates/created competition in the earliest and ongoing pursuit to truth vs self idealism.
Unfortunately also, the many who left the truths of the Church, fought it and died in their ignorant ideologies.
Fortunately, we have those truths with us to this day.

 

[peter2]

I see no place in scripture that teaches against mere competition. Though, there is plenty of competition we engage in that isn't mere competition. Fighting, strife, jealousy, selfishness, etc etc. are things that can apply to "competition" and Scripture has plenty to say about that

Neither do i, it's true

But competition itself, i.e. MERE competition, is not bad. In fact, I would say it is good.

Do you have some supportive scriture, Mark? Personnally i don't see

 

[peter2]

The Apostles said 'Lord they're driving out demons in Your name, should we stop them?' He said 'They cannot be against Me [us]...'

Hello WA, i find your quotation pretty relevant.
They could assume the Apostles were competing in their hearts for some sort of reconnaissance from Jesus (or between them). It looks like they were subject to a kind of monopolistic feeling as well.

 

[peter2]

No I don't think that God approves or uses competition, and I will say why.
The idea of competition was first formed in the heart of satan, while he was still an angel in heaven.
While there he enjoyed everything that the other angels also enjoyed.
But that wasn't enough for him.
He was jealous of Christ, and He wanted to be first in the eyes of God.
What happened was he allowed these thoughts to longer and grow, until they changed him.
He entertained jealousy and hatred in his heart against Christ. And for entertaining and spreading such feelings among the other angels in heaven, God kicked him and his followers out of heaven forever.
That is what competition does.
1. It raises a person's self admiration above where it should be.
2. It encourages devaluation of others.
3. It feeds off of jealousy and feelings of wrongful entitlement.
4. If encouraged, it can lead to war.

So no, IMHO, there is no way that God would support such things happening among His children.
What He does encourage is helping each other, being kind and loving towards each other, and serving each other. Those things are pleasing to Him.

I feel the same as you, pdugeon, but doesn't competition also teach to tolerate superiority, or inversely, to accept disabilities ?

 

[WarriorAngel]

Hello WA, i find your quotation pretty relevant.
They could assume the Apostles were competing in their hearts for some sort of reconnaissance from Jesus (or between them). It looks like they were subject to a kind of monopolistic feeling as well.

Jesus knew though, letting them see for themselves that in time they would follow and become part of the Church. Rather than cut them from faith .. but allowing it to grow.

 

[WarriorAngel]

I feel the same as you, pdugeon, but doesn't competition also teach to tolerate superiority, or inversely, to accept disabilities ?

Competition, the word itself, has so many forms.

 

[peter2]

Competition, the word itself, has so many forms.

I don't know what you mean by "many forms", WA, for i'm french

 

[Michie]

Competition can be healthy or unhealthy. There are various forms of competition in games, contests, etc. there is nothing wrong with healthy forms of competition.