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I'm not sure where it comes from but it is becomming "status quo" in a very large amounts of LCMS churches. I've visitied many in my travels and they all advocate corporate hierarchy where the pastor is basicaly the CEO, the elders as "yes men" and the laity who don't have voting priviledges. If anybody thinks I'm kidding then just see is your church constitution has changed in the past few years.
I know Jeusu First has advocated it for years but I'm not sure if it's part of PLI or Ablaze.
The information you've provided here does not seem to be pastoral error. Unless you know the pastor's perspective and reasons (if he'd even share them with you) beyond those required of everyone else, I don't know how you can insist he's being unfair.In the same light, at what point do you see a pastor err and do something about it?
It is wrong not to listen and only assume.
THis is the link to the PLI site. It has some innocuous eplanations about what it's aims are and what the program is. But in my personal experience I have seen first hand what it is doing to the church. As I've said I know that it is taking on momentum in LCMS and there are hundreds of churches ascribing to this program and it is grwoing everyday. I don't see any of what I mentioned as far as the hierarch but it definitely is part of the program. The pastor is chief officer and the elders are "yes" men and the congregation is only notified once a year about precedures and policy and has no vote on the consequences. THe whole church constitution is changed. Totally unscriptural becasue the keys are given to the congregation and passsed to the pastor through a call and then he is only responsible for preaching and the sacraments. The congregation and elders responsible for governing. Too many pastors want to be CEO and love this program because of the power it gives them. More on the order of the RC and it's even worse because they are the only head of their own hierarchy and there isn't anybody above them. Not even synod. That is dangerous.I'm confused now.. are you saying that Ablaze! is advocating that pastors give up their call to Sacrament and Word? I've read some of the Ablaze! stuff and went to last summer's district conference on it. I don't agree with all of it, but I didn't notice pastors being told to just be CEOs. That's what it sounds like you're suggesting. Or are you talking about the Ablaze! focus on personal evangelizing, thus telling the laity to preach the Word?
Can you clarify for me? I'm still new to this whole thing, and trying to understand. I know my Pastor doesn't like Ablaze! because he thinks it focuses on "decision theology". But if there's something more I'd like to know.
THis is the link to the PLI site. It has some innocuous eplanations about what it's aims are and what the program is. But in my personal experience I have seen first hand what it is doing to the church. As I've said I know that it is taking on momentum in LCMS and there are hundreds of churches ascribing to this program and it is grwoing everyday. I don't see any of what I mentioned as far as the hierarch but it definitely is part of the program. The pastor is chief officer and the elders are "yes" men and the congregation is only notified once a year about precedures and policy and has no vote on the consequences. THe whole church constitution is changed. Totally unscriptural becasue the keys are given to the congregation and passsed to the pastor through a call and then he is only responsible for preaching and the sacraments. The congregation and elders responsible for governing. Too many pastors want to be CEO and love this program because of the power it gives them. More on the order of the RC and it's even worse because they are the only head of their own hierarchy and there isn't anybody above them. Not even synod. That is dangerous.
You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Radidio again.
Could you explain please filo. I'd be interesting in hearing what you have to say.Still too many unknowns in the circumstances presented in OP. And there are some implications beyond the individual that have not been considered.
In Christ's love,
filo
Radidio said:Could you explain please filo. I'd be interesting in hearing what you have to say.
Before you make the Lord's Supper some SuperNova fest, the Festival of All Knowledge, read Luther's Communion sermon from 1525. I no longer have the link. But in it, he shares that our Lord also consumes us. We are being eating and swallowed up in this one Bread. There is no room for "me before you" which is so much the business of the church these days.
Next time you approach the table, bring some humility and pray "more of You - less of me". When you walk away, walk away from your self promotions and you may just find that all the things that bother you so much before are GONE. If they still bother you, get back in line!
Waiting for Sunday,
Cosmic
I am not against the learning. I am against the disrespectful attitude of a pastor who rejects hearing a man's confession of faith.
I am also against the idea that confirmation completion = the Lord's Supper. That is not the practice of the LCMS officially, rather it is a common practice that congregations feel comfortable with.
Ok.
This is the scenario:
You have a young man who is not a member of any Lutheran denomination, but has been going to a Lutheran church for the past 9 years.
He has the 10 commandments memorized, their meanings.
He has the Lord's Prayer memorized and it's meaning.
He has the Creed, Lord's Supper, Absolution, and Baptism memorized and their meanings.
Not many people are like this young man who has memorized their Catechism like this.
Now, he desires the Lord's Supper and his pastor says that he cannot do so until he finishes one more year of classes as all new members must do. He already has completed 4 months of classes. The pastor also says that wrote memorization does not mean that you have understanding. In my opinion, this young man appears to understand more then many pastors I have met.
Is the pastor right is doing this?
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