Communion and baptism

Loukuss · Mar 12, 2006

Ok.

I've been attending a SA church now for several months, and I really enjoy it. However, I have some problems with the way things are done and I would like to know if this is jsut my church, or the SA church in general.

We dont have communion or baptisms at my SA church. Frankly, this bothers me. I went to talk to my pastor about it, and he told me he's never been baptized and doesnt think its a big deal.

Any help on this would be much appreciated.

Thanks.

Shalom.

Lucas

Loukuss · Mar 13, 2006

Nobody??

Andy Broadley · Mar 13, 2006

Water Baptism and Communion do not play a part in Salvation Army worship.

This link gives more information as to the reasons

http://web.salvationarmy.org.uk/en/Library/factSheets/Sacraments.htm

BalaamsAss51 · Mar 14, 2006

Hello LucasGoltz.

Interesting question, what role does baptism and communion have in the Salvation Army. You appear troubled that the Salvation Army do not have these things in their services. I wonder myself.

Andy Broadly has given a link that includes this phrase - "the Army believes that it is possible to live a holy life and receive the grace of God without the use of physical sacraments and that they should not be regarded as an essential part of becoming a Christian."

Ouch! I guess the church has been wrong for the last 2000 years! If for no other reason now I know why many consider the Salvation Army outside the Christian umbrella. Glad I found this thread. I for one won't be back.

Pax

InTheFlame · Mar 15, 2006

BalaamsAss51 said:
Ouch! I guess the church has been wrong for the last 2000 years! If for no other reason now I know why many consider the Salvation Army outside the Christian umbrella. Glad I found this thread. I for one won't be back.

Ahhh, so Christian tradition dictates how the bible should be interpreted? Didn't think I'd ever hear a Lutheran saying that...

BalaamsAss51 · Mar 15, 2006

Hello Intheflame.

You misunderstand. Things are done properly and over and over again because we are told to do them, not because it is convenient to do so. We are told in Scripture to teach and baptise, so we do that. That is not doing something because of tradition. Orienting a church building to face a certain direction would be something that is done because of tradition.

Not that doing things because if tradition is necessarily a bad thing. As long as you don't make what you do mandatory. But baptism and communion are not done because of tradition, but because they are mandated by scripture. The church has done these things for the last 2,000 years because of that reason, not for reasons of tradition. How we do these things may fall into the realm of tradition, but that's another topic.

Pax

Andy Broadley · Mar 15, 2006

BalaamsAss51 said:
Ouch! I guess the church has been wrong for the last 2000 years! If for no other reason now I know why many consider the Salvation Army outside the Christian umbrella. Glad I found this thread. I for one won't be back.

Pax

No comment

Loukuss · Mar 15, 2006

Andy Broadley said:
Water Baptism and Communion do not play a part in Salvation Army worship.

This link gives more information as to the reasons

http://web.salvationarmy.org.uk/en/Library/factSheets/Sacraments.htm

Thanks, Andy. I appreciate your help.

God bless,

Lucas

Loukuss · Mar 15, 2006

BalaamsAss51 said:
Hello LucasGoltz.

Hello, friend. How have you been?

BalaamsAss51 said:
Interesting question, what role does baptism and communion have in the Salvation Army. You appear troubled that the Salvation Army do not have these things in their services. I wonder myself.

Its troubled me greatly. I am at a loss about what to do.

BalaamsAss51 said:
Andy Broadly has given a link that includes this phrase - "the Army believes that it is possible to live a holy life and receive the grace of God without the use of physical sacraments and that they should not be regarded as an essential part of becoming a Christian."

Fortunately, I dont care what the Army believes. I care what Jesus says we should be doing. Communion and baptism are two commandments in the gospels from Jesus.

BalaamsAss51 said:
Ouch! I guess the church has been wrong for the last 2000 years! If for no other reason now I know why many consider the Salvation Army outside the Christian umbrella.

I've never heard that from anyone before. My church has a lot of really good christian men and women that I fellowship with, but this doctrine problem has become quite frustrating.

BalaamsAss51 said:
Glad I found this thread. I for one won't be back.

Please do come back. Any help is appreciated.

God bless,

Lucas

BalaamsAss51 · Mar 15, 2006

Andy Broadley said:
Offensive and reported

Offensive? What part?

Ouch! I guess the church has been wrong for the last 2000 years! If for no other reason now I know why many consider the Salvation Army outside the Christian umbrella. Glad I found this thread. I for one won't be back.

Pax

Let's see, "Ouch!" Is that it?

Do you find "I guess the church has been wrong for the last 2000 years!" offensive? My opinion bothers you that much? I'm not allowed to have an opinion if it disagrees with yours? Either your teachings about communion and baptism are correct and the church has been wrong since Pentacost (when all those folks got baptised) or the church has been right and your teachings are incorrect. Care to discuss or what?

Must be "If for no other reason now I know why many consider the Salvation Army outside the Christian umbrella." This is a true statement, there are many who do not consider SA true Christians. Why should I lie? What do you care what others think? If you don't care what others say or think why post at all?

Perhaps it's "Glad I found this thread. I for one won't be back" Is my mistake coming back?

Pax means peace - could that be what is offensive?]

Report away. Enjoy your closed little world.

Pax

BalaamsAss51 · Mar 15, 2006

LucasGoltz said:
Hello, friend. How have you been?

Please do come back. Any help is appreciated.

God bless,

Lucas

Hello Lucas. Contact me privately if you would like. Opinions aren't appreciated around here.

Pax

InTheFlame · Mar 15, 2006

Hi BA - I think the 'offensive' relates to forum rules (which I admit I forgot about when I answered your post - my apologies to you and others reading the thread) regarding inter-denominational debate in Congregational forums.

2.2 b. The Congregation subforums only allow debate between people belonging to the Congregation - others can only post fellowship and ask questions.

BalaamsAss51 · Mar 16, 2006

InTheFlame said:
Hi BA - I think the 'offensive' relates to forum rules (which I admit I forgot about when I answered your post - my apologies to you and others reading the thread) regarding inter-denominational debate in Congregational forums.

Hello InTheFlame.

That rule is a slipperly slope. 2.2 b. The Congregation subforums only allow debate between people belonging to the Congregation - others can only post fellowship and ask questions.

When does questioning become debate? I think the only questions not allowed are the ones asking for groups to defend their positions. This is looked at as threatening. Sad.

Pax

TheDag · Mar 16, 2006

Do you care to comment on the salvation armys viewpoint at all?
I have had communion in the salvation army. I have never heard anyone in the army condemn baptism. I am not convinced it is neccesary (i am glad i'm baptised tho). If we are talking about water baptism which it sounds like we are then catholics don't believe it is essential either so there isn't a conflict of beliefs there.

BalaamsAss51 said:
Ouch! I guess the church has been wrong for the last 2000 years! If for no other reason now I know why many consider the Salvation Army outside the Christian umbrella. Glad I found this thread. I for one won't be back.

Using this argument that you have made then I have to ask why you have a lutheran symbol? After all there are differences between the lutheran church and the catholic/orthodox churches. So obviously the lutheran church is wrong too. So everything the lutheran church taught me in the 21 years I attended must be wrong. I hope you don't get upset at this because after all I am only using your words and applying it to your denomination.

J21 · Mar 16, 2006

Originally Posted by: BalaamsAss51.... now I know why many consider the Salvation Army outside the Christian umbrella.

Isn't it a good thing then that we are to trust in how Jesus sees us and not on that of our fellow man. At one stage, Luther was considered to be ' outside of the Christian umbrella' as well. That did not stop him from doing the Lord's work,as yu well know, just as the Salvation Army will continue to do their all for Christ, and in Christ, as well
Pax and Ciao!

Athanasian Creed · Mar 17, 2006

Do the officer(s) of an individual Corps have the freedom, if they felt led, to hold the Lord's Supper say once a month or to baptise individuals wishing to belong to the Church (especially those who wish to be soldiers)?? Would they receive any 'flack' from territorial HQ's?

In my formative years growing up in the SA, it wasn't an issue for me (nor for the myriad of family that were both adherants and soldiers)

Ray

Sascha Fitzpatrick · Mar 18, 2006

Not ours - we have communion probably 3-4 times a year (possibly more - especially if you include weddings - a lot seem to have it), and baptisms are a regular event (although they are more often than not held during a lifegroup or youth event or conference, seeing we don't have a baptismal - it's usually in someone's pool or at the beach).

Never heard of someone being reprimanded, and I would almost say that would NEVER occur - it's not like we stop it! It is encouraged, actually (not as a 'you must do this to be saved' kinda thing, but more as a 'if you feel God calling you to this, let us know and we can organise a location and the event'... )...

Almost makes me laugh thinking of being reprimanded for it - it's highly celebrated at our corps when someone does it.

Sasch

Abiel · Mar 20, 2006

mod hat.

OK> I'm closing this. Reports have been received. We are happy to chat about our churches' position on the sacraments, you will find those among us who support change- but we will not be haranged about it in our own back yard. This is a congregational forum. Non-Salvationists are so welcome here to fellowship and chat, but this has gone beyond that.

hat off

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