Commuity

[tulc]

and the title should read: Community
anyone read this?
http://www.anabaptistchurch.org/community_by_elmo_stoll.htm
I liked this part (among others)

But now be prepared to go into shock - my observations compel me to tell you that for most people living without wheels and gadgets is not the biggest hurdle. For most the most difficult challenge is learning to live in brotherhood and under what the Plain People consider a scriptural concept of church authority. Included in this part of the picture is the lack of privacy that brings forth exasperated comments like, "You people gossip so much! You're all so nosey. Why do people think they have a right to mind my business?" No doubt we do gossip too much, and our noses should be shorter. But that does not remove the part of the problem that results from having grown up in a society that puts a premium on independence and self-identity rather than a brotherhood's caring for one another. Living in a close community, everyone tends to know a lot about everyone else. This is not necessarily nosey. Living in brotherhood means sharing your life to a degree many people have not been used to. They discover that what they thought was normal may not be, and what strikes them as abnormal may actually be more in line with what God intended. Our lives are not our own. We are accountable to others, and others to us.

tulc(found this article very interesting)

 

[WayneinMaine]

and the title should read: Community
anyone read this?
http://www.anabaptistchurch.org/community_by_elmo_stoll.htm
I liked this part (among others)
tulc(found this article very interesting)

I read this 15 years ago, when I was contemplating joining the Bruderhof -and when Elmo was trying to persuade me to join his community.

 

[tulc]

I read this 15 years ago, when I was contemplating joining the Bruderhof -and when Elmo was trying to persuade me to join his community.

Interesting, what was he like?
tulc(always curious)

 

[WayneinMaine]

Interesting, what was he like?
tulc(always curious)

Elmos writing reflect his personality well. He was articulate, sensitive and wise. He was not very controlling but he certainly felt strong about the superiority of the Amish lifestyle even to the fine points of steel versus rubber tires on buggys. Elmo was a good listener too, in my experience. When I visited him in Cookeville, when several visitors were chatting he would ask a question and then sit back and listen. When a man who wanted to join the community started telling us about all the bad things in his current church that were the reasons for seeking at Cookeville, Elmo did not respond to the particulr concerns but instead asked the man to tell him ten good things about that church.

I knew several people who joined the community, which changed over time into something very different from what Elmo described as his goal in his earlier writings.

I considered joining myself, but I could not see the value or a biblical case for "primative technology". I challenged Elmo to present a biblical case for the extremely primative lifestyle he advocated, and was very disapointed when he published it in his newsletter, as he really made no case at all. I have a whole stack of shared correspondence between us, as well as others. I'd love to see a biography. A professor at Vaderbilt is studyng Elmo and the community: http://sitemason.vanderbilt.edu/site/jRY7Ze . Read this account of Elmo too if you are interested: http://www.irawagler.com/?p=511

 

[tulc]

Elmos writing reflect his personality well. He was articulate, sensitive and wise. He was not very controlling but he certainly felt strong about the superiority of the Amish lifestyle even to the fine points of steel versus rubber tires on buggys. Elmo was a good listener too, in my experience. When I visited him in Cookeville, when several visitors were chatting he would ask a question and then sit back and listen. When a man who wanted to join the community started telling us about all the bad things in his current church that were the reasons for seeking at Cookeville, Elmo did not respond to the particulr concerns but instead asked the man to tell him ten good things about that church.

I knew several people who joined the community, which changed over time into something very different from what Elmo described as his goal in his earlier writings.

I considered joining myself, but I could not see the value or a biblical case for "primative technology". I challenged Elmo to present a biblical case for the extremely primative lifestyle he advocated, and was very disapointed when he published it in his newsletter, as he really made no case at all. I have a whole stack of shared correspondence between us, as well as others. I'd love to see a biography. A professor at Vaderbilt is studyng Elmo and the community: http://sitemason.vanderbilt.edu/site/jRY7Ze . Read this account of Elmo too if you are interested: http://www.irawagler.com/?p=511

Cool! I'll read it tonight!
tulc(thanks bro!)

 

[Crazy Liz]

and the title should read: Community
anyone read this?
http://www.anabaptistchurch.org/community_by_elmo_stoll.htm
I liked this part (among others)
tulc(found this article very interesting)

I hadn't read that before, but having grown up in a Mennonite Brethren community, it made me laugh a little because it's so true. Although Mennonite Brethren don't go in for plain dress, use every kind of technology, and tend theologically to be pretty much in the Evangelical mainstream, this kind of community is still very much a part of their culture.

For me, it's been hard to adjust the other way - to a large suburban church where people come and go as they please & you never know anything about anybody's life except what they choose to share with you. I perceive this as lack of community. I've had other people tell me this aspect of Mennonite community is cult-like.

But it's not cult-like at all because it is not governed by any central authority, but by the community together. Although there is a lot less privacy in Mennonite communities & everybody is "their brother's keeper," the communities are also very democratic. Anybody can criticize authority, and the lives of the leaders are just as much an open book as the lives of everyone else.

My sister became a Presbyterian pastor, and she & her husband, also a pastor, divorced a few years ago. It was shocking to me that nobody butted into their situation and asked what was going on at all. It was so different from what would have happened in a Mennonite church. For someone to get a divorce & the whole church not to know what happened & try to bring about some restorative justice would be unheard-of in a Mennonite community.

 

[Crazy Liz]

So I just read the article. While it starts out sounding like the kind of community I grew up in, when I reached this paragraph, I said "Whoa!" Red flags all over the place.

We mentioned church structure. We are not a democracy where the majority vote rules. We commonly make a comparison between the natural family and the spiritual family. Just as the husband is the head of the natural family, so the bishop and ministers are responsible to watch over and care for the spiritual flock entrusted into their care. In the natural family, many times the husband abuses or is unworthy of his position. That calls for his repentance, but does not change what is God's order. The same is true in the church. Someone is responsible to lead and shepherd, and others are responsible to support and submit. Otherwise, there can be no godly order.

So my reactions to the rest of the article is a mixed bag, and the update added at the end helped me fill in details, since I was not familiar with this community or with Elmo before.

 

[CelticRose]

Interesting Tulc. I have lived in community & I have what is considered a large family by today's standards & I have lived on board boats & the one thing I know irks me more than any other is not being able to get away from someone who is bugging me. The reason does not matter, ever. I find it gets very hard to continue to be charitable when I lack for personal space.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

"We mentioned church structure. We are not a democracy where the majority vote rules."

This has been true wherever Yhvh has a people.

Whenever the people Yhvh called out for Himself to be His people
asked for things the way the world does it , they sinned thereby and He punished them. Still true today.

Democrats and Republicans have simply, at best, been tricked beyond knowing they don't know and can't, as a party, do what is right.

Yhvh's People have almost never obeyed Yhvh the way He says to simply.
It's absolutely necessary, but also devastating and embarassing(at first).
There is no secret, everything is brought out in the open,
either in this world (with recovery and healing)
or in the next (with judgment) .

Society knows nothing. Society is a corpse, perverse, and deadly.
Once you know this, you are on the Way to Life.