Commandments for Gentiles?

[visionary]

Messianics believe in the God of the Jews > They believe in Jesus as the Messiah> They believe Jews will be given rewards and from God for being observant > They want rewards> They want to be a part of Israel so they too can be observant and receive rewards and blessings

Is there something I'm omitted or adding here that is incorrect?

One of the greatest blessings/rewards is to be in His Presence with His robe of righteousness on, so that we can stand in His Presence.

 

[xDenax]

One of the greatest blessings/rewards is to be in His Presence with His robe of righteousness on, so that we can stand in His Presence.

And does one have to be a part of Israel for this to happen?

 

[visionary]

In Judaism, a Jewish person would not keep the Sabbath to receive blessings. And the curses listed in scripture are more corporate, meaning if most of the children of Israel failed to keep the Sabbath, but I did, as a nation, we are all punished, so even if I kept the Sabbath faithfully, and most did not, I experience the curses also.

So, I as a Jew, do not keep the Sabbath to receive blessings or to avoid curses.

As a Jew, the only way to fully keep the law is to do so with no anticipation of any gain. Blessing is not even a factor or motivation.

So what is your motivation?

 

[visionary]

And does one have to be a part of Israel for this to happen?

Not that I know of... Being a part of Israel [commonwealth of Israel] has more to do with learning Torah.

 

[xDenax]

Not that I know of... Being a part of Israel [commonwealth of Israel] has more to do with learning Torah.

Can you explain what you mean? One doesn't have to be a part of Israel to learn Torah. Do you need to really understand it?

 

[visionary]

Can you explain what you mean? One doesn't have to be a part of Israel to learn Torah. Do you need to really understand it?

To understand God, I do, for to me it explains His motivation, character, and what He expects from His followers.

 

[xDenax]

So what is your motivation?

You'll find that different people have different motivations. Some are simply motivated by the idea that "God said so". I am not one of those people. My motivation is obligation and meaning. As a Jew I'm obligated to make an effort. I generally fail miserably but I keep trying. I realize that our traditions and rituals are vitally important to community cohesion and identity. We would not still be here without them. They are necessary for the functioning of the whole and the continuation of the Jewish people.

I do find a lot of meaning in many rituals (not all of them) and when I skip something like lighting shabbat candles, I feel very odd and out of sorts. If I take a bite of non-kosher meat I don't feel as if I'm "bad" but I feel like I could have done better and just avoided it. It's second nature not to spend money on Saturdays. If I get caught in a bind (like when my husband forgot to put gas in my car which I realized on my way to Saturday morning services) and have to spend money it's uncomfortable.

I do find it's true that one mitzvah leads to others. I tried for a while to make an effort to say many blessings each day. The more I said..the more I said. When I quit...I quit. When I follow through with these actions I am more aware of my myself. More in tune with the Jewish cycle, if that makes any sense to you. I feel more connected to...everything.

I also admit that I do not want to be a disappointment. I do not want to feel like I've let down the community who accepted me. I do not want anyone to be judged badly because of something I did or did not do (I think I made this point earlier). I want to continue to do better. I want to continue to learn and grown. I want to have gained ritual experience by the time I have children so that I can pass it on to them. I want them to grow up in a house where doing Jewish things is normal. That's not going to be accomplished if I haven't been observing rituals until they are born.

This isn't coming out very eloquently (I haven't slept much in a couple days) but suffice it to say I have several motivators and none of them are rewards from God.

 

[xDenax]

To understand God, I do, for to me it explains His motivation, character, and what He expects from His followers.

And this involves being a part of Israel? I'm trying to get somewhere (to the point of understanding) here. Eventually we'll get there!

 

[visionary]

You'll find that different people have different motivations. Some are simply motivated by the idea that "God said so". I am not one of those people. My motivation is obligation and meaning. As a Jew I'm obligated to make an effort. I generally fail miserably but I keep trying. I realize that our traditions and rituals are vitally important to community cohesion and identity. We would not still be here without them. They are necessary for the functioning of the whole and the continuation of the Jewish people.

I do find a lot of meaning in many rituals (not all of them) and when I skip something like lighting shabbat candles, I feel very odd and out of sorts. If I take a bite of non-kosher meat I don't feel as if I'm "bad" but I feel like I could have done better and just avoided it. It's second nature not to spend money on Saturdays. If I get caught in a bind (like when my husband forgot to put gas in my car which I realized on my way to Saturday morning services) and have to spend money it's uncomfortable.

I do find it's true that one mitzvah leads to others. I tried for a while to make an effort to say many blessings each day. The more I said..the more I said. When I quit...I quit. When I follow through with these actions I am more aware of my myself. More in tune with the Jewish cycle, if that makes any sense to you. I feel more connected to...everything.

I also admit that I do not want to be a disappointment. I do not want to feel like I've let down the community who accepted me. I do not want anyone to be judged badly because of something I did or did not do (I think I made this point earlier). I want to continue to do better. I want to continue to learn and grown. I want to have gained ritual experience by the time I have children so that I can pass it on to them. I want them to grow up in a house where doing Jewish things is normal. That's not going to be accomplished if I haven't been observing rituals until they are born.

This isn't coming out very eloquently (I haven't slept much in a couple days) but suffice it to say I have several motivators and none of them are rewards from God.

While the "community" identity is not there for me, the "community" in God's kingdom causes me to have the same feelings when I do well and when I do not so well, just like you described. .. Thanks for sharing.

 

[xDenax]

Is God kingdom and afterlife thing?

 

[visionary]

Is God kingdom and afterlife thing?

Here and now.. and for all eternity .. unchanging... wouldn't you agree?

 

[Qnts2]

So what is your motivation?

There is a Rabbinical story of a great Rabbi who was approached by a man who requested to receive the blessings gained by the Rabbi for the next mitzvah the Rabbi did. The Rabbi with great pleasure said he would be more then happy to do that. The Rabbi expressed that it would be such a joy to him to do a mitzvah just for the sake of the mitzvah, with no possibility of gain.

So, the best way to do a mitzvah is simply because it is commanded by God, with no thought of gain or loss.

A similar theme runs throughout Judaism. What is the highest way to give charity? In such a manner as no one knows who gave the charity, and for the giver not to know to whom it went, so there is no possibility of honor or recognition for doing the mitzvah but just for the sake of the mitzvah.

 

[xDenax]

Here and now.. and for all eternity .. unchanging... wouldn't you agree?

I have no idea, honestly.

 

[visionary]

I have no idea, honestly.

So, no idea as to why are you obedient to His Word?

 

[xDenax]

So, no idea as to why are you obedient to His Word?

Huh? That isn't what I said (and I answered that question in my other post). You asked if I agree with "God Kingdom" here and now, for all eternity, unchanging. I guess that quite frankly, I do not agree. The universe is always changing and indicates that one day it will cease to exist. What happens to "God's Kingdom" at that point? It will clearly have changed.

 

[yedida]

You'll find that different people have different motivations. Some are simply motivated by the idea that "God said so". I am not one of those people. My motivation is obligation and meaning. As a Jew I'm obligated to make an effort. I generally fail miserably but I keep trying. I realize that our traditions and rituals are vitally important to community cohesion and identity. We would not still be here without them. They are necessary for the functioning of the whole and the continuation of the Jewish people.

I do find a lot of meaning in many rituals (not all of them) and when I skip something like lighting shabbat candles, I feel very odd and out of sorts. If I take a bite of non-kosher meat I don't feel as if I'm "bad" but I feel like I could have done better and just avoided it. It's second nature not to spend money on Saturdays. If I get caught in a bind (like when my husband forgot to put gas in my car which I realized on my way to Saturday morning services) and have to spend money it's uncomfortable.

I do find it's true that one mitzvah leads to others. I tried for a while to make an effort to say many blessings each day. The more I said..the more I said. When I quit...I quit. When I follow through with these actions I am more aware of my myself. More in tune with the Jewish cycle, if that makes any sense to you. I feel more connected to...everything.

I also admit that I do not want to be a disappointment. I do not want to feel like I've let down the community who accepted me. I do not want anyone to be judged badly because of something I did or did not do (I think I made this point earlier). I want to continue to do better. I want to continue to learn and grown. I want to have gained ritual experience by the time I have children so that I can pass it on to them. I want them to grow up in a house where doing Jewish things is normal. That's not going to be accomplished if I haven't been observing rituals until they are born.

This isn't coming out very eloquently (I haven't slept much in a couple days) but suffice it to say I have several motivators and none of them are rewards from God.

Believe it or not, I know exactly what you're saying - I'm NOT Jewish but I feel the same way as I observe (or neglect to do such) mitzvot that I am aware of.

 

[yedida]

There is a Rabbinical story of a great Rabbi who was approached by a man who requested to receive the blessings gained by the Rabbi for the next mitzvah the Rabbi did. The Rabbi with great pleasure said he would be more then happy to do that. The Rabbi expressed that it would be such a joy to him to do a mitzvah just for the sake of the mitzvah, with no possibility of gain.

So, the best way to do a mitzvah is simply because it is commanded by God, with no thought of gain or loss.

A similar theme runs throughout Judaism. What is the highest way to give charity? In such a manner as no one knows who gave the charity, and for the giver not to know to whom it went, so there is no possibility of honor or recognition for doing the mitzvah but just for the sake of the mitzvah.

Exactly! Doing what is right, not for gain, but because it was commanded. I've found that even those things that don't seem to make any sense take on an understanding as I do them simply because they are commanded.

 

[Steve Petersen]

Exactly! Doing what is right, not for gain, but because it was commanded. I've found that even those things that don't seem to make any sense take on an understanding as I do them simply because they are commanded.

'Be not like the servant who obeys for the sake of a reward; be like the servant who obeys NOT for the sake of a reward.' - Mishnah, tractate Avot

 

[Lulav]

There is a Rabbinical story of a great Rabbi who was approached by a man who requested to receive the blessings gained by the Rabbi for the next mitzvah the Rabbi did. The Rabbi with great pleasure said he would be more then happy to do that. The Rabbi expressed that it would be such a joy to him to do a mitzvah just for the sake of the mitzvah, with no possibility of gain.

So, the best way to do a mitzvah is simply because it is commanded by God, with no thought of gain or loss.

A similar theme runs throughout Judaism. What is the highest way to give charity? In such a manner as no one knows who gave the charity, and for the giver not to know to whom it went, so there is no possibility of honor or recognition for doing the mitzvah but just for the sake of the mitzvah.

You mean like the Jew, Yeshua taught?

1 "Take heed that you do not do your charitable deeds before men, to be seen by them. Otherwise you have no reward from your Father in heaven. 2 Therefore, when you do a charitable deed, do not sound a trumpet before you as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory from men. Assuredly, I say to you, they have their reward. 3 But when you do a charitable deed, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, 4 that your charitable deed may be in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will Himself reward you openly.

It sounds to me that 'Judism' learned this from Yeshua, but left out the part about there being a reward, or was Yeshua teaching the Jews wrong here about there being any rewards?

 

[Lulav]

You'll find that different people have different motivations. Some are simply motivated by the idea that "God said so". I am not one of those people. My motivation is obligation and meaning. As a Jew I'm obligated to make an effort. I generally fail miserably but I keep trying. I realize that our traditions and rituals are vitally important to community cohesion and identity. We would not still be here without them. They are necessary for the functioning of the whole and the continuation of the Jewish people.

I do find a lot of meaning in many rituals (not all of them) and when I skip something like lighting shabbat candles, I feel very odd and out of sorts. If I take a bite of non-kosher meat I don't feel as if I'm "bad" but I feel like I could have done better and just avoided it. It's second nature not to spend money on Saturdays. If I get caught in a bind (like when my husband forgot to put gas in my car which I realized on my way to Saturday morning services) and have to spend money it's uncomfortable.

I do find it's true that one mitzvah leads to others. I tried for a while to make an effort to say many blessings each day. The more I said..the more I said. When I quit...I quit. When I follow through with these actions I am more aware of my myself. More in tune with the Jewish cycle, if that makes any sense to you. I feel more connected to...everything.

I also admit that I do not want to be a disappointment. I do not want to feel like I've let down the community who accepted me. I do not want anyone to be judged badly because of something I did or did not do (I think I made this point earlier). I want to continue to do better. I want to continue to learn and grown. I want to have gained ritual experience by the time I have children so that I can pass it on to them. I want them to grow up in a house where doing Jewish things is normal. That's not going to be accomplished if I haven't been observing rituals until they are born.

This isn't coming out very eloquently (I haven't slept much in a couple days) but suffice it to say I have several motivators and none of them are rewards from God.

Let me see if I am understanding you, because I really would like to and maybe that will help me to understand why you feel the need to hang around us here in this forum.

• You are not motivated to keep the commandments because HaShem said to.
• Your motivation is obligation and meaning.
• You believe that the Jews are still on earth today is because they follow rituals and traditions, but not the Mitzvot
• If you break a mitzvah you don't feel guilt, but uncomfortable but think you could have done better
• You find a connection to others when doing the same thing they are doing and you like that feeling
• You care about letting the people down that accepted you but not necessarily G-d

Did I get the gist of what you are saying? You wanted to become a part of the Jewish people to feel a belonging somewhere? Your motivation was more cultural than religious? To have a feeling of connection?


I understand that, and know the feeling, but the connection to me goes from those scattered about the earth that love and worship their creator and are connected to him by love and obedience, not ritual and tradition. I feel the love and obedience are foremost and the ritual and tradition secondary.