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<blockquote data-quote="thaumaturgy" data-source="post: 58158739" data-attributes="member: 169303"><p>Have you <em>ever</em> heard him say that? Do you have <strong>any</strong> evidence that this bizarre hypothesis is even marginally correct?</p><p></p><p>There are gradations of socialism. Indeed <strong>it works every day here in the U.S. and has helped us for a century or more</strong>. </p><p></p><p>YOU get advantages of the social network you may not even be aware of. Go to your fridge. Look in. You see the groceries there? The food comes from the U.S. in most cases and the U.S. agricultural system is beyond compare <strong>precisely because of government funded research since the middle 1800's</strong>. The USDA has an "Agricultural Research Service" which employs a lot of scientists whose work has helped America become self-sufficient in terms of agriculture.</p><p></p><p>See the computer you're using? The adoption and advancement of the computer was aided immeasurably by the U.S. government war effort in WWII as well as later on in the APollo space program.</p><p></p><p>See the drugs you take? A huge number of the blockbuster drugs that have hit the market <strong>started off as NIH funded research</strong>.</p><p></p><p>You have to work in grossly unsafe conditions for 16 hours a day 7 days a week? No? Well thank the social progressive movement of the early 20th century.</p><p></p><p>Your elder parents or grandparents digging through garbage cans to eat? No? Thank the Social Security program set in place during the Depression.</p><p></p><p>Your elder family members dying of diseases because of no access to healthcare? No? Thank the MEDICARE SYSTEM. A fantastic example of social medicine.</p><p></p><p>Now, if you think Socialism = Stalinism then you have missed all the good that socialism can bring. It isn't all black and white. (Well it isn't if one is an adult).</p><p></p><p>I've done a lot of travel in Europe lately and I cannot say that more socially progressive countries are "suffering". Germany has one of the stronger economies in the world now. Even Finland seems to be doing OK. And the people I work with in Europe in Finland and the Netherlands and Belgium and the UK don't seem to be suffering so very, very much.</p><p></p><p>This isn't to say all governments do well, but socialism (or properly "social democracies" like western Europe) are hardly the problem.</p><p></p><p>And all this GOP scare mongering about how many people just want to stop working and live on government subsidies is HILARIOUS! I know NO ONE around me who looks forward to being laid off so they can go on the dole.</p><p></p><p>NO. ONE. AT. ALL.</p><p></p><p>Not one person.</p><p></p><p>I am sure there are people out there like that but in my 47 years on the planet I've not met very many so I think this idea that everyone wants to be a freeloader is grounded in some sort of bizarre fantasy.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>After, of course, you get all the advantages of the social system already in effect. But once you get all that out of it, I'm sure it'll ruin it.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="thaumaturgy, post: 58158739, member: 169303"] Have you [I]ever[/I] heard him say that? Do you have [B]any[/B] evidence that this bizarre hypothesis is even marginally correct? There are gradations of socialism. Indeed [B]it works every day here in the U.S. and has helped us for a century or more[/B]. YOU get advantages of the social network you may not even be aware of. Go to your fridge. Look in. You see the groceries there? The food comes from the U.S. in most cases and the U.S. agricultural system is beyond compare [B]precisely because of government funded research since the middle 1800's[/B]. The USDA has an "Agricultural Research Service" which employs a lot of scientists whose work has helped America become self-sufficient in terms of agriculture. See the computer you're using? The adoption and advancement of the computer was aided immeasurably by the U.S. government war effort in WWII as well as later on in the APollo space program. See the drugs you take? A huge number of the blockbuster drugs that have hit the market [B]started off as NIH funded research[/B]. You have to work in grossly unsafe conditions for 16 hours a day 7 days a week? No? Well thank the social progressive movement of the early 20th century. Your elder parents or grandparents digging through garbage cans to eat? No? Thank the Social Security program set in place during the Depression. Your elder family members dying of diseases because of no access to healthcare? No? Thank the MEDICARE SYSTEM. A fantastic example of social medicine. Now, if you think Socialism = Stalinism then you have missed all the good that socialism can bring. It isn't all black and white. (Well it isn't if one is an adult). I've done a lot of travel in Europe lately and I cannot say that more socially progressive countries are "suffering". Germany has one of the stronger economies in the world now. Even Finland seems to be doing OK. And the people I work with in Europe in Finland and the Netherlands and Belgium and the UK don't seem to be suffering so very, very much. This isn't to say all governments do well, but socialism (or properly "social democracies" like western Europe) are hardly the problem. And all this GOP scare mongering about how many people just want to stop working and live on government subsidies is HILARIOUS! I know NO ONE around me who looks forward to being laid off so they can go on the dole. NO. ONE. AT. ALL. Not one person. I am sure there are people out there like that but in my 47 years on the planet I've not met very many so I think this idea that everyone wants to be a freeloader is grounded in some sort of bizarre fantasy. After, of course, you get all the advantages of the social system already in effect. But once you get all that out of it, I'm sure it'll ruin it. [/QUOTE]
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