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Coming Soon To America

Discussion in 'American Politics' started by okafor, Jul 31, 2011.

  1. okafor

    okafor Well-Known Member

    843
    +65
    Wesleyan
    Married
    US-Libertarian
    It doesn't end well.


    Rise and Fall of the Welfare State

    "In my speeches, especially when talking about the fiscal crisis in Europe (or the future fiscal crisis in America), I often warn that the welfare state reaches a point-of-no-return when the number of people riding in the wagon begins to outnumber the number of people pulling the wagon."

    "To be more specific, if more than 50 percent of the population is dependent on government (employed in the bureaucracy, living off welfare, receiving pensions, etc), it becomes rather difficult to form a coalition to fix the mess. This may explain why Greek politicians have resisted significant reforms, even though the nation faces a fiscal death spiral."


    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]
     
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  2. Jake255

    Jake255 Regular Member

    +129
    Non-Denom
    Single
    Exactly!

    Not everyone can be on entitlement programs, which is what our current president wants, but then socialism doesn't/hasn't/won't work.

    It'll ruin a country for sure.
     
  3. allhart

    allhart Messianic believer

    +187
    Non-Denom
    Married
    US-Constitution
    U make a valid point, not everyone can be on entitlement programs. AWESOME!
     
  4. Touma

    Touma In on the cover up

    +689
    Christian Seeker
    Single
    US-Others
    Yeah, only the rich deserve to be entitled to living a good life, while the rest of us lift the up.

    [​IMG]
     
  5. allhart

    allhart Messianic believer

    +187
    Non-Denom
    Married
    US-Constitution
    We are trying to pay for immorality and it is costing us trillions, 14T plus to be exact.
    Our national debt is a threat to a any balanced budget anywhere. Injustice is a threat to justest everywhere else. So how can u justify our gross spending because ya'know a balanced budget means a restriction of sorts!
     
  6. Ton80

    Ton80 Well-Known Member

    +78
    Christian
    Private
    If not everybody, then who can be on entitlement programs?
     
  7. allhart

    allhart Messianic believer

    +187
    Non-Denom
    Married
    US-Constitution
    The very elderly, extreme disabled! Especially with computers these day many can work from home in a wheel chair!

    Instead of personalized incomes.we could nationalize shelters;)?
     
  8. Touma

    Touma In on the cover up

    +689
    Christian Seeker
    Single
    US-Others
    What immorality? Providing safety nets for the weakest of our society? You'd rather it be social darwinism, where only the strongest survive and the weak die?
     
  9. thaumaturgy

    thaumaturgy Well-Known Member

    +858
    Atheist
    Married
    Have you ever heard him say that? Do you have any evidence that this bizarre hypothesis is even marginally correct?

    There are gradations of socialism. Indeed it works every day here in the U.S. and has helped us for a century or more.

    YOU get advantages of the social network you may not even be aware of. Go to your fridge. Look in. You see the groceries there? The food comes from the U.S. in most cases and the U.S. agricultural system is beyond compare precisely because of government funded research since the middle 1800's. The USDA has an "Agricultural Research Service" which employs a lot of scientists whose work has helped America become self-sufficient in terms of agriculture.

    See the computer you're using? The adoption and advancement of the computer was aided immeasurably by the U.S. government war effort in WWII as well as later on in the APollo space program.

    See the drugs you take? A huge number of the blockbuster drugs that have hit the market started off as NIH funded research.

    You have to work in grossly unsafe conditions for 16 hours a day 7 days a week? No? Well thank the social progressive movement of the early 20th century.

    Your elder parents or grandparents digging through garbage cans to eat? No? Thank the Social Security program set in place during the Depression.

    Your elder family members dying of diseases because of no access to healthcare? No? Thank the MEDICARE SYSTEM. A fantastic example of social medicine.

    Now, if you think Socialism = Stalinism then you have missed all the good that socialism can bring. It isn't all black and white. (Well it isn't if one is an adult).

    I've done a lot of travel in Europe lately and I cannot say that more socially progressive countries are "suffering". Germany has one of the stronger economies in the world now. Even Finland seems to be doing OK. And the people I work with in Europe in Finland and the Netherlands and Belgium and the UK don't seem to be suffering so very, very much.

    This isn't to say all governments do well, but socialism (or properly "social democracies" like western Europe) are hardly the problem.

    And all this GOP scare mongering about how many people just want to stop working and live on government subsidies is HILARIOUS! I know NO ONE around me who looks forward to being laid off so they can go on the dole.

    NO. ONE. AT. ALL.

    Not one person.

    I am sure there are people out there like that but in my 47 years on the planet I've not met very many so I think this idea that everyone wants to be a freeloader is grounded in some sort of bizarre fantasy.


    After, of course, you get all the advantages of the social system already in effect. But once you get all that out of it, I'm sure it'll ruin it.
     
  10. allhart

    allhart Messianic believer

    +187
    Non-Denom
    Married
    US-Constitution
    [/QUOTE]

    One of the liberties Americans have is todo just enough to get by.

    If ur into redistribution so much then why don't we redistribute your GPA? For those that are misfortunate as yourself! Touting your PHD an all.
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2011
  11. thaumaturgy

    thaumaturgy Well-Known Member

    +858
    Atheist
    Married

    LOL! So naive!

    I work in a tech industry. Do you know what the latest fad is among tech companies? They ship the computer programming and assorted work to INDIA.

    Why? Because India has a lot of highly trained computer savvy professionals.

    Don't like it? TOUGH, the CEO's are looking to cut wages.

    So what kind of jobs do you envision for these people?

    ARE YOU WILLING TO PAY MORE FOR THE GOODS AND SERVICES? Apparently Americans so far AREN'T because we are shipping off jobs that are currently handled by regular folks every day in the computer field.

    But hey, it's a good idea in theory. But it would require some sort of "mandate" or government oversite to enforce it I suppose.
     
  12. Ton80

    Ton80 Well-Known Member

    +78
    Christian
    Private
    Why should we prop up the old and disabled? This has to be an all or nothing deal. Remember, this all started with taking care of the elderly, then came the disabled, then the unemployed.
     
  13. Tim the Plumber

    Tim the Plumber Newbie

    85
    +1
    Atheist
    Private
    The nations which are in trouble at the moment :- Greece, Spain, Portugal, Italy are there mostly because they have extreemly protective labour markets. The ability to sack workers in those countries is almost not there. As a result nobody will hire new staff. Same in France.

    It's not the social welfair programs which are the problem it's the non-functioning labour market.
     
  14. allhart

    allhart Messianic believer

    +187
    Non-Denom
    Married
    US-Constitution
    We can see welfare vs productivity. Americans need to get back to helping their neighbor ln- like farmers use to do......Selfless sacrifice/ love. U don't work u don't eat. The elderly can teach and help raise our kids and the extreme disabled is minimal..... Even some retards can work. Hyper-poling gets us nowhere.
     
  15. Jake255

    Jake255 Regular Member

    +129
    Non-Denom
    Single
    Not everyone is called to be wealthy, not everyone is called to be poor, we all have different economic levels.

    To say we should all be on the same level is impossible and unbibical.

    We can not steal from anyone to pay for something else, stealing is wrong.
     
  16. Jake255

    Jake255 Regular Member

    +129
    Non-Denom
    Single
    I agree, we are shipping the jobs off, we should have left it the way it was.

    Not sure why progressive is good, it's proven to be basically bad. Some things are better left alone.
     
  17. katherine2001

    katherine2001 Veteran

    +965
    Eastern Orthodox
    Single
    And this is being advocated by the same people who were screaming about death panels when the healthcare debate was going on. That's nothing compared to what is going to happen if medicare and Social Security go bye-bye. Old people are going to be dying off like flies, and it is going to be on the head of the Republicans and Tea Partiers.

    Also, if the government cuts out Medicare and Social Security, then they are going to have to pay back all the money to those of us who have paid money into the system over the years. For me, that is 30 years worth of money that I have paid into Medicare and Social Security. Do you think the Government could afford that?
     
  18. Jake255

    Jake255 Regular Member

    +129
    Non-Denom
    Single
    What do you think Obama care is????? It's an entitlement program! Obama wants everyone on an entitlement program. We are not entitled to healthcare, it is not a right. It is illegal and unconstitutional.

    The problem is WE DO NOT HAVE THE MONEY TO PAY FOR IT!
    It's socialism at it's worst.
    It will and is ruining our country.
     
  19. allhart

    allhart Messianic believer

    +187
    Non-Denom
    Married
    US-Constitution
    How can we see to redistribute God's gifts to the individuals? By picking winners and losers. Furthermore by not enslaving others or infringing on others liberties or freewill?
     
  20. Jake255

    Jake255 Regular Member

    +129
    Non-Denom
    Single
    This is absolutely false! The Obama care, that no one seems to realize, is going to end Medicare, it would have been so much cheaper for our nation to keep medicare, expand medicare to include those people needing coverage, then to force us all to purchase something that we may not want.
    It is illegal for our government to force us to be consumers for something like insurance.
    People need to think for themselves and not listen to the liberal media!! Go find real news and find out what is really going on.
     
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