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Read books written by atheist, that became enlightened by the Holy Spirit, and then born again.
Atheist are very one dimensional in their thinking. They only except what MAN can prove.
How shallow...I was once in this selfish mind of thinking...man knows it all.
I'm content in knowing I don't have all the answers. I can do my best with what God's given me to find them, but I'll never know the whole truth. When you really think about it, human beings are literally a speck of dust compared to the great cosmic universe and the awesomeness of God. For me to say there is no God, is basically to deny all of existence, but that's just my observation. Not a big deal if you don't believe the way I do, I'm content with my faith in Christ.
You dismiss this way too quickly. And denigrating people who believe this way (which is what the Bible teaches, btw) is rather insulting. Nevertheless, I don't know why you'd say it's "logically and scientifically impossible". What logic makes it impossible that an eternal omnipotent being outside space and time created the space and time? And as for science, while it may be impossible to prove that such a thing happened via the scientific method, that doesn't mean it's impossible to have happened - just impossible to prove.I'd like to join into the discussion, given I haven't really read everything in this thread. So here I go.
So I'd like say to say that the possibility of God or any other higher being is definitely possible, but on the Biblical side of God isn't as likely, and there may be much more to the story of God and what happened prior to the beginning than what we were told. Perhaps a conspiracy, or maybe just mistranslations over time, we won't know as of who we are now.
There are 4 options to consider to the creation of everything that I have come up over the years of thinking about this.
1: Creation from Nothing
- Literally popping out of nothing, including space and time
- This is the supernatural option, it's logically and scientifically impossible. If one believes this, they're literally on the same level of some religious fanatic that they brag how much they hate.
Incidentally, I'm an atheist, and I don't take the view that the universe "began to exist". It may have "begun to change", but it has never not-existed. I don't believe that the universe popped into existence out of a pure philosophical nothingness.
eudaimonia,
Mark
I can't look at the awesomeness of this great big universe, and not see God in it.
Any "explanations" about the origins of the universe are necessarily exceptional - in that they can´t conform with what we observe as the rules within the universe. So it´s sort of funny when people try to justify their exceptional claims by pointing to laws such as "something cannot come from nothing". By the same token, I could refer to the law that "spiritual entities cannot create matter". So there.I have seen this critique a lot when it comes to abiogenesis and the creation of everything (which is not evolution, just so everyone knows that). People will say, "Something cannot from nothing" and "A living thing cannot come from a non-living thing." So they say, "Since those two things cannot happen, then there must be some sort of Creator."
But if what they say is true, then who created a higher being?
Their answer is, "Well that being always existed."
Regardless of whether a person beliefs that a god is a physical being or not, they believe it exists, and that this being created everything. So, in reality atheists/agnostics are not doing anything far fetched when they accept things such as ambiogenesis and in theories like the Big Bang.
The shadow of Plato's hand looms large over our language.
Even 'nothing' is abstracted into a pure Platonic form.
Paradoxically almost, it becomes 'something'.
I can't look at the awesomeness of this great big universe, and not see God in it.
That is how your psyche is currently set up to believe. Nothing wrong or right about that, that is how you choose to look at things.
Not unlike the psychological tests where images are viewed and the person is asked to state what they see. No right or wrong answers, but the answer will come from the individuals psychological makeup. Those who see God in the universe, likely have a need to believe in a God and this drives their psyche. Again, nothing wrong with that.
I don't know about a persons psychological drives determine whether they believe in God or not. To me that's a very weak argument. What psychological drive's are you talking about that are supposedly different between theists and non theists?
For me the two go hand in hand. Creator/created. Kinda like looking at a beautiful quilt and wondering, wow I wonder who made that, it's amazing. Same idea.
The problem is you're labelling the universe as created when you have no justification to do so.
One man's justification is another man's lie and vice versa.
You are entitled to believe what you want, so am I. My justification has already been discussed ad nauseum by the atheist league of bowlers. And at their next shin dig conference they'll probably discuss and bash their next Christian targets over their atheist talking point outline. Nothing new under the sun. They would have done karl marx proud.
***Shrug***
I don't know about a persons psychological drives determine whether they believe in God or not. To me that's a very weak argument. What psychological drive's are you talking about that are supposedly different between theists and non theists?
You dismiss this way too quickly. And denigrating people who believe this way (which is what the Bible teaches, btw) is rather insulting. Nevertheless, I don't know why you'd say it's "logically and scientifically impossible". What logic makes it impossible that an eternal omnipotent being outside space and time created the space and time? And as for science, while it may be impossible to prove that such a thing happened via the scientific method, that doesn't mean it's impossible to have happened - just impossible to prove.
One man's justification is another man's lie and vice versa.
You are entitled to believe what you want, so am I. My justification has already been discussed ad nauseum by the atheist league of bowlers. And at their next shin dig conference they'll probably discuss and bash their next Christian targets over their atheist talking point outline. Nothing new under the sun. They would have done karl marx proud.
***Shrug***
For me the two go hand in hand. Creator/created. Kinda like looking at a beautiful quilt and wondering, wow I wonder who made that, it's amazing. Same idea.
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