Comet Neowise

[Halbhh]

Why would we want to trust those that support the traditions of men?

Good thing to bring up -- let's listen to Him about the "traditions of men"

Here's the verse:

Mark 7:8 You have disregarded the commandment of God to keep the tradition of men."

As Christ Jesus pointed out, in their ongoing religion men make up/create traditions, their own doctrines, created over time.

He says to us: don't create these religious doctrines and make them your tradition.

Verses 1 - 7

1 The Pharisees and some of the teachers of the law who had come from Jerusalem gathered around Jesus 2 and saw some of his disciples eating food with hands that were defiled, that is, unwashed. 3 (The Pharisees and all the Jews do not eat unless they give their hands a ceremonial washing, holding to the tradition of the elders....
Mark 7 NIV

And in our religion, look at how this young earth creationism has become now a doctrine/tradition.

But in scripture we hear:

James 1:27 Pure and undefiled religion before our God and Father is this: to care for orphans and widows in their distress, and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.
(To be polluted by the world is to be led into the greed, lusts, politics, angers, group fighting, slanders and so on of the world)

 

[JohnDB]

This sounds like you just want to believe something that is not in the Bible. Jesus says,

6 “But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female.
7 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife;
8 And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh.
9 What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.” (Mark 10:6-9).​

This was a similar reference to the words used in the story of Adam and Eve.

“Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.” (Genesis 2:24).​

Also, we read:

“And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.” (Genesis 2:23).

What were women called before this?
None.

So this is the first time the woman is called a woman.
This does not sound like a do-over.

In addition, the Scriptures say:

“And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living.” (Genesis 3:20).​

The lineage of Jesus Christ via by Mary's line is traced back to the name Adam: See Luke 3:23-38.

What happened to these other people before Adam? Did they sin? If so, why does Scripture say the following?

“For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.”
(1 Corinthians 15:22).

Now look at what I said,
God could have made others. Scriptures don't say that God did or that God didn't. We don't know.
"Eve" is the Latin translation of the Hebrew name "Hawaa" which means precisely "mother of all living".
That in itself makes me think that there weren't any others running about. Or that Adam didn't know of any.
Either way...head of the household in the Garden in the territory of Eden was THE preeminent place to be...it was the only one that mattered. (Worldwide floods have a tendency to make everything not relevant)

What I have said before and will repeat is that since God has not seen fit to tell us it likely is not relevant information and we really don't know exactly, precisely all that happened in that pre-flood timeline.

 

[JohnDB]

This sounds like you just want to believe something that is not in the Bible. Jesus says,

6 “But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female.
7 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife;
8 And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh.
9 What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.” (Mark 10:6-9).​

This was a similar reference to the words used in the story of Adam and Eve.

“Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.” (Genesis 2:24).​

Also, we read:

“And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.” (Genesis 2:23).

What were women called before this?
None.

So this is the first time the woman is called a woman.
This does not sound like a do-over.

In addition, the Scriptures say:

“And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living.” (Genesis 3:20).​

The lineage of Jesus Christ via by Mary's line is traced back to the name Adam: See Luke 3:23-38.

What happened to these other people before Adam? Did they sin? If so, why does Scripture say the following?

“For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.”
(1 Corinthians 15:22).

I am unwilling to go beyond what is written...

We have scriptures. They were written in four different languages using lots of metaphors, idioms of speech, and other literary devices.

Meaning that there's a ton of information they reveal.

And looking back through the geological and anthropological records forensically we can actually see how some of the things recorded in scripture played out using today's science to explain things more explicitly.
We don't have anything really much to look at before Noah's flood.

So we don't know.

But this isn't going beyond scripture... I've loved scripture... still do. It holds a very unique facination for me as to its precision and beauty that no author can replicate today.
I very much believe scripture. It's never wrong. People have been trying to poke holes in it for centuries now... unsuccessfully too.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Now look at what I said,
God could have made others. Scriptures don't say that God did or that God didn't. We don't know.
"Eve" is the Latin translation of the Hebrew name "Hawaa" which means precisely "mother of all living".
That in itself makes me think that there weren't any others running about. Or that Adam didn't know of any.
Either way...head of the household in the Garden in the territory of Eden was THE preeminent place to be...it was the only one that mattered. (Worldwide floods have a tendency to make everything not relevant)

What I have said before and will repeat is that since God has not seen fit to tell us it likely is not relevant information and we really don't know exactly, precisely all that happened in that pre-flood timeline.

But God didn't make others. You are speculating in contrary to what the Scriptures clearly state. There was no others before Adam and Eve. The days are literal 24 our days that God made everything because He defines the day by using the words evening and morning.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I am unwilling to go beyond what is written...

We have scriptures. They were written in four different languages using lots of metaphors, idioms of speech, and other literary devices.

Meaning that there's a ton of information they reveal.

And looking back through the geological and anthropological records forensically we can actually see how some of the things recorded in scripture played out using today's science to explain things more explicitly.
We don't have anything really much to look at before Noah's flood.

So we don't know.

But this isn't going beyond scripture... I've loved scripture... still do. It holds a very unique facination for me as to its precision and beauty that no author can replicate today.
I very much believe scripture. It's never wrong. People have been trying to poke holes in it for centuries now... unsuccessfully too.

While there is metaphor in the Bible, there is also a lot plain written literal words we must accept, too. Knowing the age of the Earth is not something we can really determine unless we have a time machine. However, the Bible implies that the Earth is approximately 6,000 years old.

Some think that light & comet travel theories proves an old Earth, but did they really travel through space with a starship and measure the speed of light and the path of these comets themselves? No. They are only guessing.

Yes, I understand that there are flat earthers out there who wrongfully take the wooden literalism approach with the Bible. They are of course not looking at what we have already observed about our world currently that everyone knows. The Earth is a globe. Science & common sense is clear on that fact. The Bible even supports a globe Earth, as well. Another example of wooden literalism involving Christians is that many of them do not apply the proper biblical metaphors in the story of Noah, and Ham.

Check out this CF thread here to learn more:
Biblical Metaphors Shed Light on Ham's Sin in Noah's Tent.

Anyways, the problem with believing in an old Earth is that the 6 day creation is defined as a 24 hour day because the words “evening and morning” are used. Even the Saturday Sabbath (for the Israelite) is a day that is paralleled with God resting (stopping) from his work on the 7th day. The pattern the Israelites were to keep was what God established with the creation.

9 “Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.” (Exodus 20:9-11).​

Another problem is that it places you in agreement with atheists who fight against creationism. This is a spiritual issue. I have noticed that conservatives or evangelicals agree with a young Earth, and yet, liberals tend to agree more with an old Earth. Most do not want to be unaccepted or laughed at on the account of God's Word. I think this is the real heart of the issue here. But if God is all powerful and He can create things in the way that He wishes. He does not need a lot of time to do it. In fact, many of Jesus' miracles were instantaneous. He did not need to work up to do them.

 

[JohnDB]

But God didn't make others. You are speculating in contrary to what the Scriptures clearly state. There was no others before Adam and Eve. The days are literal 24 our days that God made everything because He defines the day by using the words evening and morning.

Woah...
I never said that there were others created before Adam and Eve.
Never speculated that there were.
AFTER Adam and Eve...it's a possibility that we really don't know anything about. But it's not relevant because Adam and Eve lineage is all that's relevant due to the line of Noah.

Even still there could have been more than 20,000 people by the time Cain killed Abel. (Exponential growth of population)

And the use of evening and Morning are used in that precise order.
Evening in Hebrew is Synonymous with chaos/disorder.
Morning is Synonymous with "becoming clear/ordered"

And the order frames the night time...a poetic way of saying that the work is hidden from prying eyes. AKA secret. Not a complete day.

So in every instance God made order out of chaos and hid how He did it.

 

[JohnDB]

While there is metaphor in the Bible, there is also a lot plain written literal words we must accept, too. Knowing the age of the Earth is not something we can really determine unless we have a time machine. However, the Bible implies that the Earth is approximately 6,000 years old.

Some think that light & comet travel theories proves an old Earth, but did they really travel through space with a starship and measure the speed of light and the path of these comets themselves? No. They are only guessing.

Yes, I understand that there are flat earthers out there who wrongfully take the wooden literalism approach with the Bible. They are of course not looking at what we have already observed about our world currently that everyone knows. The Earth is a globe. Science & common sense is clear on that fact. The Bible even supports a globe Earth, as well. Another example of wooden literalism involving Christians is that many of them do not apply the proper biblical metaphors in the story of Noah, and Ham.

Check out this CF thread here to learn more:
Biblical Metaphors Shed Light on Ham's Sin in Noah's Tent.

Anyways, the problem with believing in an old Earth is that the 6 day creation is defined as a 24 hour day because the words “evening and morning” are used. Even the Saturday Sabbath (for the Israelite) is a day that is paralleled with God resting (stopping) from his work on the 7th day. The pattern the Israelites were to keep was what God established with the creation.

9 “Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.” (Exodus 20:9-11).​

Another problem is that it places you in agreement with atheists who fight against creationism. This is a spiritual issue. I have noticed that conservatives or evangelicals agree with a young Earth, and yet, liberals tend to agree more with an old Earth. Most do not want to be unaccepted or laughed at on the account of God's Word. I think this is the real heart of the issue here. But if God is all powerful and He can create things in the way that He wishes. He does not need a lot of time to do it. In fact, many of Jesus' miracles were instantaneous. He did not need to work up to do them.

Read the post just above this one

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Woah...
I never said that there were others created before Adam and Eve.
Never speculated that there were.

You implied that there potentially could be others.

You said:

“Was Adam and Eve the only people God created? We don't really know because God didn't tell us.” ~ JohnDB

And the use of evening and Morning are used in that precise order.
Evening in Hebrew is Synonymous with chaos/disorder.
Morning is Synonymous with "becoming clear/ordered"

And the order frames the night time...a poetic way of saying that the work is hidden from prying eyes. AKA secret. Not a complete day.

So in every instance God made order out of chaos and hid how He did it.

No. It's not. If I said I will see you in the morning the next day, you would not misinterpret that to mean “order.” Evening and the morning simply means evening and the morning. To suggest so otherwise means one simply does not like these words in the Bible because they want to agree with secular worldly Science that says the Earth is old. They don't want to be laughed at on account of God's Word. They want acceptance with the world.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Read the post just above this one

Please carefully reread the entire post that I quoted to you.
I also mention how the Israelite observing the Saturday Sabbath is a parallel to God resting (stopping) from his work from the 6 day creation week.

 

[Halbhh]

the Bible implies that the Earth is approximately 6,000 years old.

This estimate is actually theory men have developed. The scripture tells us instead:

1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. 2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
Genesis 1 KJV

1 In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. 2 The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.
Genesis 1 ESV

1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.
Genesis 1 NIV

(the fact of the early Earth being a water world has been discovered in science also:
Scientists determine early Earth was a ‘water world’ by studying exposed ocean crust)


As we can see, God chose not to tell us how much time passed after Earth was created and the later moment when the Spirit came to the formless water of Earth and hovered over it.

An unknown amount of time, between these 2 moments.

God chose not to tell us how old the Earth is. And accordingly, the age of the Earth is nowhere in scripture. Not in any verse, nor any book of the Bible.

Why not? Why didn't God tell us?

Because it isn't something we should focus on for our religion.

James 1:27 Pure and undefiled religion before our God and Father is this: to care for orphans and widows in their distress, and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.

The topic of the age of the Earth is only a relatively far less important, though interesting, side topic, a mere aspect of Earth, and not in any way in the Bible nor key to salvation in any way.

@JohnDB

 

[Bible Highlighter]

This estimate is actually theory men have developed. The scripture tells us instead:

1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. 2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
Genesis 1 KJV

1 In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. 2 The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.
Genesis 1 ESV

1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.
Genesis 1 NIV


As we can see, God chose not to tell us how much time passed after Earth was created and the later moment when the Spirit came to the formless water of Earth and hovered over it.

An unknown amount of time, between these 2 moments.

God chose not to tell us how old the Earth is. And accordingly, the age of the Earth is nowhere in scripture. Not in any verse, nor any book of the Bible.

@JohnDB

Why not? Why didn't God tell us?

Because it isn't something we should focus on for our religion.

James 1:27 Pure and undefiled religion before our God and Father is this: to care for orphans and widows in their distress, and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.

The topic of the age of the Earth is only a relatively far less important, though interesting, side topic, a mere aspect of Earth, and not in any way in the Bible nor key to salvation in any way.

No. There is no gap between Genesis 1:1, and Genesis 1:2.
One only wants to create a gap because they want an old Earth to be true. There is no gap. We can create all kinds of assumptions and wrong theologies if we create gaps between verses. No other verse confirms a gap theory. It is purely imaginary.

Genesis 1:1 is merely a header line of the paragraph. This is common in English class if you know how to create a proper paragraph that your English teacher will give you a positive grade on involving the creation of paragraphs.

The first sentence in a paragraph is the header of the information or point you are trying to make. The rest of the sentences in that paragraph are merely points to back up the first sentence in your paragraph. For example: If I said,

“I love the Bible.”

I would create supporting points for this first sentence above.

I love the Bible.
1. The Bible tells me about God's love.
2. The Bible introduced me to Jesus Christ and salvation in Him.
3. The Bible is trustworthy in everything it says.
4. The Bible guides my life in a positive and good way.
5. The Bible makes me a better man.

And this is what it would like like in paragraph form.

I love the Bible. The Bible tells me about God's love. The Bible introduced me to Jesus Christ and salvation in Him. The Bible is trustworthy in everything it says. The Bible guides my life in a positive and good way. The Bible makes me a better man.​

This is what Genesis 1:1 essentially has done. It is giving us the header information of the description about what we are going to read. The rest of the chapter is the details of Genesis 1:1. Wooden literalism will take this to mean that there are two creation accounts when that is not what God was saying.

 

[topher694]

. Have you read some of those creationist essays ? I said lying because I meant lying not different interpretations. They deliberately ignore or hide the fact of verifiable physical evidence that proves them wrong. Mainstream scientists won’t do that. I’m not saying that scientists are correct all of the time but they will admit it . Professional Creationists hide the truth rather than admit it and go to fear mongering rather than admit they were wrong (you’re gonna go to hell unless you believe this pseudoscience we want you to believe )

That's called doubling down on accusing the brethren. If that's what you think is of value here then you go for it. I seriously doubt they see it this way.

 

[Halbhh]

There is no gap between Genesis 1:1, and Genesis 1:2.

That's what I'm pointing at -- actually a theory.

See? The idea that there is "no gap" -- that idea itself -- is actually an idea not in the text, but a theory (or hypothesis, or added idea). See it now?

God chose not to tell us that time duration!

It could have been any length of time, zero seconds, or 5,000 years, or a billion years.

Time doesn't matter to God.

It is nothing to Him. Time is not above Him.

He could make a billion years pass in a second, if He chose.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

This estimate is actually theory men have developed. The scripture tells us instead:

1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. 2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
Genesis 1 KJV

1 In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. 2 The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.
Genesis 1 ESV

1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.
Genesis 1 NIV

(the fact of the early Earth being a water world has been discovered in science also:
Scientists determine early Earth was a ‘water world’ by studying exposed ocean crust)


As we can see, God chose not to tell us how much time passed after Earth was created and the later moment when the Spirit came to the formless water of Earth and hovered over it.

An unknown amount of time, between these 2 moments.

God chose not to tell us how old the Earth is. And accordingly, the age of the Earth is nowhere in scripture. Not in any verse, nor any book of the Bible.

Actually the Gap Theory is a theory. But believe as you wish. I am not going to endlessly argue about the age of the Earth. Knowing the age of the Earth is kind of really the basics and it is a spiritual matter. The world will be more your friend if you say the Earth is old. Yet, I am not trying to be friends and or hold hands with the world. I am trying to hold hands with Jesus.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

That's what I'm pointing at -- actually a theory.

See? The idea that there is "no gap" -- that idea itself -- is actually an idea not in the text, but a theory. See it now?

God chose not to tell us that time duration!

There is no time duration. Scripture would confirm it if it were so.
Again, it's like the creation of a standard paragraph. The first sentence (i.e. Genesis 1:1) is the header info. and the rest of the sentences is the detailed explanation or information of the paragraph (Genesis 1:2 through Genesis 2:3).

 

[JohnDB]

You implied that there potentially could be others.

You said:

“Was Adam and Eve the only people God created? We don't really know because God didn't tell us.” ~ JohnDB



No. It's not. If I said I will see you in the morning the next day, you would not misinterpret that to mean “order.” Evening and the morning simply means evening and the morning. To suggest so otherwise means one simply does not like these words in the Bible because they want to agree with secular worldly Science that says the Earth is old. They don't want to be laughed at on account of God's Word. They want acceptance with the world.

Hebrew is a metaphoric language. English is not.
There are multiple meanings with most Hebrew terms. The translators give us the best guess as to what will make the translation read well with an understanding of what was intended but it really can't because sometimes both definitions are intended at the same time. So looking at the original language is needed to gain a more complete understanding...as well as a ton of other things.

Please carefully reread the entire post that I quoted to you.
I also mention how the Israelite observing the Saturday Sabbath is a parallel to God resting (stopping) from his work from the 6 day creation week.

Yes!
Sabbath (Singular and not plural) is definitely pointed to throughout the whole of the Old Testament and even spoken about in the New in the Book of Hebrews.

We are getting closer every day to that Sabbath...thank God!
I'm starting to grow weary. But my deeds will go with me.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Hebrew is a metaphoric language. English is not.
There are multiple meanings with most Hebrew terms. The translators give us the best guess as to what will make the translation read well with an understanding of what was intended but it really can't because sometimes both definitions are intended at the same time. So looking at the original language is needed to gain a more complete understanding...as well as a ton of other things.



Yes!
Sabbath (Singular and not plural) is definitely pointed to throughout the whole of the Old Testament and even spoken about in the New in the Book of Hebrews.

We are getting closer every day to that Sabbath...thank God!
I'm starting to grow weary. But my deeds will go with me.

You didn't grow up speaking and writing Biblical Hebrew. You did not grow up in Bible times. To say you know a dead language when you did not grow up in that culture is assuming a lot. Either God preserved His Word in our world language today, or we are forced into guessing about what a dead language means the rest of our lives. God does not want us guessing as to what a language says. God is not the author of confusion. I mean, you could not properly read your Bible if you had to stop every 2 seconds to check the Hebrew and Greek, etc.

Again, I will say you don't like the idea of a Young Earth. That is your starting point. So then from there, you seek to make the Bible say what you want it to say to prove this starting point. That is eisegesis and not exegesis.

 

[JohnDB]

You didn't grow up speaking and writing Biblical Hebrew. You did not grow up in Bible times. To say you know a dead language when you did not grow up in that culture is assuming a lot. Either God preserved His Word in our world language today, or we are forced into guessing about what a dead language means the rest of our lives. God does not want us guessing as to what a language says. God is not the author of confusion. I mean, you could not properly read your Bible if you had to stop every 2 seconds to check the Hebrew and Greek, etc.

Again, I will say you don't like the idea of a Young Earth. That is your starting point. So then from there, you seek to make the Bible say what you want it to say to prove this starting point. That is eisegesis and not exegesis.

Actually...
If you could take a little stroll around Israel today....you could see that Hebrew is not a dead language. It's very much alive and well. And us English speaking people are at a somewhat disadvantage to the natives that came from all over the world to collect there...they all speak, read, and write Hebrew...they don't all speak English.

And no, I didn't grow up taking Hebrew classes. Had to do so later in life and used all kinds of fancy dancy computer software and essays written by experts to better understand what was written and why it was written in the manner it was written by.

And so I learned that a flat, plain reading of scripture is not a good idea.
Understanding what was intended behind what is written is so much better...then what was written can remind me of a huge volume of information relevant to daily life.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Actually...
If you could take a little stroll around Israel today....you could see that Hebrew is not a dead language. It's very much alive and well. And us English speaking people are at a somewhat disadvantage to the natives that came from all over the world to collect there...they all speak, read, and write Hebrew...they don't all speak English.

And no, I didn't grow up taking Hebrew classes. Had to do so later in life and used all kinds of fancy dancy computer software and essays written by experts to better understand what was written and why it was written in the manner it was written by.

And so I learned that a flat, plain reading of scripture is not a good idea.
Understanding what was intended behind what is written is so much better...then what was written can remind me of a huge volume of information relevant to daily life.

There is a difference between Biblical Hebrew and Modern Hebrew.
Then you have to contend with the false beliefs of the Jews (that could influence the language), as well. God preserved His Word according to Psalms 12:6-7 (KJV). Again, can you read your Bible normally if you check every word in the original languages? No, you cannot.

 

[ViaCrucis]

I'm not sure that I'm willing to stake my life on that number either.

Evening and Morning frame the night time...a poetic fashion of saying that God hid how exactly He made the Earth.

It's certainly poetic, which is why it would be erroneous to conflate the creation story in Genesis 1 with science. The questions which Genesis 1 are answering are very different questions than what science is answering.

If I ask how much does God love us, and you answer 1+1=2, well the one and the other really don't have much to do with one another.

Genesis 1 is answering the question about God's relationship with creation, and our place as human beings vis-a-vis God and the rest of creation. Which is that all things are so ordered by God, the universe isn't a cosmic accident (as it is in the case of a number of ancient near eastern myths) but the deliberate creative work of God, and humanity was made to bear God's image and be the caretakers of the earth which God made. Those are all really important theological issues.

The questions being asked by science are how did what we observe get here and how does it work, and through our observations, study, and use of the scientific method we can determine that the earth is about 4.5 or so billion years old from the accretion disk that circled around our host star, and has undergone quite an interesting geological history over that period of time.

One of the issues that seems to trouble some is that they wrongly think that naturalistic methodology means excluding God from the equation; except of course this is obviously untrue. In fact we regularly accept naturalistic methodology all the time--where babies come from, how the weather works, the moon's effects on the tides, the water currents, the migratory habits of animals, washing our hands with soap and water to deal with germs, or the fact that we use combustion engines to make most of our automobiles work. The fact that all these things have naturalistic explanations and we use a naturalistic methodology to explain the mechanisms at work in these things doesn't exclude God.

Speaking of the naturalistic mechanisms for the material origins of the planet earth no more excludes God from the process than speaking of the naturalistic mechanisms for how planes fly excludes God from the process. God is not denied by His creation working; God is the One who authored the whole of creation and thus all that is and all that works is and works because of Him.

While we can explain how car engines work without invoking the supernatural, that doesn't mean that car engines work apart from God; for nothing can ever be apart from God as God is the maker and sustainer of all things. That is essential to the very basic Christian confession of faith:

We believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, of all things seen and unseen.

-CryptoLutheran