Columbus Day

[durangodawood]

Good point. He was only half the killer Cortes was, and doesn't even have a good song dedicated to him.

I played that at a show last weekend. Its got some ridiculous cringey "noble savage" lyrics. But the musical vibe is great.

 

[Landon Caeli]

I played that at a show last weekend. Its got some ridiculous cringey "noble savage" lyrics. But the musical vibe is great.

One of my all time favorites.

 

[Aldebaran]

Strictly speaking, he did not. The Norse Viking explorer Leif Eriksson landed in what is now Newfoundland around 1000 AD. But he didn’t make a big deal of discovering a new continent.

Newfoundland isn't America.

 

[Aldebaran]

Lot of folks didn't even realize today is a holiday. There has to be a better rep for Italians. What are we supposed to do on this day, brutally abuse those over whom we have absolute power? That's no kind of celebration. It's a throw away holiday; we need a better reason to get off work.

Don't worry. There seems to be a move to celebrate a different group of people on that day who were known for scalping their enemies and taking their women. Some still refer to it as the "lost paradise" that Columbus "conquered".

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

Newfoundland isn't America.

It certainly isn't Asia.

 

[Aldebaran]

It certainly isn't Asia.

I'm more interested in what it is than what it isn't.

 

[durangodawood]

Newfoundland isn't America.

By the same token, is anywhere that Columbus set foot "America"?

 

[Aldebaran]

By the same token, is anywhere that Columbus set foot "America"?

If not, (which seems to be the implication) then he didn't even have contact with the native Americans, let alone enslave them, or eradicate them, or whatever he's accused of doing.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

I'm more interested in what it is than what it isn't.

Then what is it?

 

[Aldebaran]

Then what is it?

It's Newfoundland, apparently.

 

[durangodawood]

If not, (which seems to be the implication) then he didn't even have contact with the native Americans, let alone enslave them, or eradicate them, or whatever he's accused of doing.

Just look it up and save everyone the hassle.

 

[Aldebaran]

Just look it up and save everyone the hassle.

Nah, I've already had my fill of revisionist history.

 

[jayem]

Newfoundland isn't America.

If anyone "discovered" what is now the USA, it was the Spanish explorer Juan Ponce de Leon. Who founded the settlement of St. Augustine, FL in 1513. This was decades before the first English colony on Roanoke Island was established by Sir Walter Raleigh in 1585. This was the settlement that for some still uncertain reason, had vanished by 1590.

 

[Arcangl86]

Newfoundland isn't America.

It's part of North America.

 

[jayem]

If not, (which seems to be the implication) then he didn't even have contact with the native Americans, let alone enslave them, or eradicate them, or whatever he's accused of doing.

Does it matter which indigenous people were subjected to Columbus's brutality? The tribes which he encountered inhabited the Caribbeans--the Arawaks, Tainos, and Lucayans (a branch of the Tainos.) They were not warlike, or skilled in combat. Still, his behavior towards them was odious. A couple of excerpts from a Museum Facts piece:

Columbus and his army did not hesitate to slice bodies of the Indians into tens and twenties. The cruel reason they did this was to check the sharpness of their blades and swords. Another instance of their cruelty was that one day, they met two Indian boys carrying parrots. They took away the parrots for fun and beheaded the boys.

Columbus craved for both slaves and gold from Cicao on Haiti. His team ordered the natives to collect gold from there every three months. Whoever failed to do so would face severe consequences, such as their hands being brutally cut off! However, the natives barely found any gold making it a hard task. Additionally, they only found small dust of gold in the streams.

12 Atrocities Committed By Christopher Columbus - Museum Facts

 

[jayem]

By the same token, is anywhere that Columbus set foot "America"?

If South and Central America are included, then the answer is yes. On his 3rd voyage, he sailed southward to the Orinioco River and explored Venezuela. And on his 4th voyage—still looking for gold and a passage to the far east—he explored the Central American coast. So he did set foot in the Americas.

 

[Aldebaran]

Does it matter which indigenous people were subjected to Columbus's brutality? The tribes which he encountered inhabited the Caribbeans--the Arawaks, Tainos, and Lucayans (a branch of the Tainos.) They were not warlike, or skilled in combat. Still, his behavior towards them was odious. A couple of excerpts from a Museum Facts piece:

Columbus and his army did not hesitate to slice bodies of the Indians into tens and twenties. The cruel reason they did this was to check the sharpness of their blades and swords. Another instance of their cruelty was that one day, they met two Indian boys carrying parrots. They took away the parrots for fun and beheaded the boys.

Columbus craved for both slaves and gold from Cicao on Haiti. His team ordered the natives to collect gold from there every three months. Whoever failed to do so would face severe consequences, such as their hands being brutally cut off! However, the natives barely found any gold making it a hard task. Additionally, they only found small dust of gold in the streams.

12 Atrocities Committed By Christopher Columbus - Museum Facts

Any site that focuses solely on negative "facts" is to be taken with a grain of salt.

 

[jayem]

Any site that focuses solely on negative "facts" is to be taken with a grain of salt.

Other than demonstrating that lands and people could be found across the Atlantic, I don’t know what good Columbus did for civilization. Even in the late 15th century, his behavior crossed the line. He was fired as governor, and sent back to Spain in chains. He was pardoned by King Ferdinand only after promising to find vast amounts of gold in the New World. Which he never did.

This reminds me of Shakespeare:
“The evil that men do lives after them; the good is oft interred with their bones.”

 

[Brihaha]

Though Columbus was credited in discovering America, it was the explorer Amerigo Vespucci who realized the north and south American continents were separate from Asia. He is where our namesake America was born. Columbus had no clue. Apparently Vespucci sailed to the southern tip of South America and that helped him understand these were separate continents from Europe and Asia. I've always liked the name Amerigo since I heard it as a fifth grader.