Colorado kicks Trump Off Ballot for 2024

Tinker Grey

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essentialsaltes

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Discussion of original ruling:

The provision [in the 14th Amendment] says, “no person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice-President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State,” if they took an oath to “support” the constitution and then engaged in insurrection.

But it doesn’t say anything about the presidency. [there was some tapdancing about whether the presidency was an 'office'] And furthermore, the presidential oath doesn’t say anything about “supporting” the Constitution – it’s to “preserve, protect and defend” the Constitution.

“Whether this omission was intentional, or an oversight is not for this Court to decide,” Wallace said, noting that Trump was the first president in US history to have never served in government before ascending to the White House, meaning he never swore the oath to “support” the Constitution that lawmakers and military officers take.

CO Supreme Court:

Section Three [of the 14th Amendment] encompasses the office of the Presidency and someone
who has taken an oath as President. On this point, the district court
committed reversible error.

----

We do not reach these conclusions lightly. We are mindful of the magnitude
and weight of the questions now before us. We are likewise mindful of our solemn
duty to apply the law, without fear or favor, and without being swayed by public
reaction to the decisions that the law mandates we reach.
 
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Occams Barber

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A question for the lawyers out there:

If this decision stands after going to an appeal, does it prevent Trump from contesting the Presidential election or does it just make it more difficult for him to win?

OB
 
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Tinker Grey

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A question for the lawyers out there:

If this decision stands after going to an appeal, does it prevent Trump for contesting the Presidential election or does it just make it more difficult for him to win?

OB
IANAL, but the way US elections have been done is that each state makes its own rules about how elections are run. The fact that CO found that committed insurrection would have no bearing on other states though its reasons might influence other courts.

That is, this just denies Trump CO's electors. So, yes, he can still run and even still win ... unless a few key states follow suit.
 
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Occams Barber

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IANAL, but the way US elections have been done is that each state makes its own rules about how elections are run. The fact that CO found that committed insurrection would have no bearing on other states though its reasons might influence other courts.

That is, this just denies Trump CO's electors. So, yes, he can still run and even still win ... unless a few key states follow suit.
Thank you

OB
 
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Merrill

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The party worried about the state of of democracy is the one cheering on the removal of their opponents from state ballots

How Putanesque

should we only allow Democrats on presidential ballots now?

and speaking of Democrats, I like how they removed the other candidates off the primary ballot in Florida. This effectively canceled the Florida primary and awarded the electoral votes to Biden uncontested.

what next? maybe some court packing?
 
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wing2000

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That is, this just denies Trump CO's electors. So, yes, he can still run and even still win ... unless a few key states follow suit.

IMO, Should the USSC defer to decide or back the CO decision, other Secretary of States will follow:
Arizona
Minnesota
Michigan
 
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wing2000

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The party worried about the state of of democracy is the one cheering on the removal of their opponents from state ballots

How Putanesque

should we only allow Democrats on presidential ballots now?

and speaking of Democrats, I like how they removed the other candidates off the primary ballot in Florida. This effectively canceled the Florida primary and awarded the electoral votes to Biden uncontested.

what next? maybe some court packing?

If a court finds a Democratic President engaged in a insurrection, they would be subject to the same court rulings.

Either you believe in our Constitution....and the Court interpretation thereof. Or you don't.
 
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Merrill

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Discussion of original ruling:

The provision [in the 14th Amendment] says, “no person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice-President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State,” if they took an oath to “support” the constitution and then engaged in insurrection.

But it doesn’t say anything about the presidency. [there was some tapdancing about whether the presidency was an 'office'] And furthermore, the presidential oath doesn’t say anything about “supporting” the Constitution – it’s to “preserve, protect and defend” the Constitution.

“Whether this omission was intentional, or an oversight is not for this Court to decide,” Wallace said, noting that Trump was the first president in US history to have never served in government before ascending to the White House, meaning he never swore the oath to “support” the Constitution that lawmakers and military officers take.

CO Supreme Court:

Section Three [of the 14th Amendment] encompasses the office of the Presidency and someone
who has taken an oath as President. On this point, the district court
committed reversible error.

----

We do not reach these conclusions lightly. We are mindful of the magnitude
and weight of the questions now before us. We are likewise mindful of our solemn
duty to apply the law, without fear or favor, and without being swayed by public
reaction to the decisions that the law mandates we reach.
Trump has not been convicted of inciting any kind of "insurrection". He has been charged with three conspiracy counts, but that case is far from over. And then we have this

the Colorado move is completely partisan and misguided --they invite riots or worse if they think they can keep people they don't like off presidential ballots, and deprive their citizens of political representation. SCOTUS will shoot this down
 
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Merrill

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If a court finds a Democratic President engaged in a insurrection, they would be subject to the same court rulings.

Either you believe in our Constitution....and the Court interpretation thereof. Or you don't.
see my post above

Trump has not been convicted (or even formally charged) with insurrection, and he was acquitted by the Senate
 
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wing2000

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see my post above

Trump has not been convicted (or even formally charged) with insurrection, and he was acquitted by the Senate

Yes, two of the court's dissenters had a similar position:
The three dissenters cited different reasons for why they disagreed with the majority. One would have dismissed the case because Trump has not been charged with insurrection, one would have dismissed because Trump has not been convicted of a crime and the third did not believe the court had the authority to decide the issue under the state’s elections code.

We'll see how the USSC rules (should they take the case).
 
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essentialsaltes

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Trump has not been convicted of inciting any kind of "insurrection".
The lower court and the CO Supreme Court found that the application of the 14th Amendment is decidable by the courts.

2. Section Three Involves Judicially Discoverable and Manageable Standards

As we have said, President Trump has not argued before us that Section
Three lacks judicially discoverable and manageable standards, and we believe for
good reason. Section Three disqualifies from certain delineated offices persons
who have “taken an oath . . . to support the Constitution of the United States” as
an “officer of the United States” and who have thereafter “engaged in insurrection
or rebellion.” U.S. Const. amend. XIV, § 3. Although, as we discuss below, the
meanings of some of these terms may not necessarily be precise, we can discern
their meanings using “familiar principles of constitutional interpretation” such as
“careful examination of the textual, structural, and historical evidence put forward
by the parties.” Zivotofsky, 566 U.S. at 201.

G. President Trump Engaged in Insurrection

¶176 President Trump challenges the district court’s findings that he “engaged
in” an “insurrection.” The Constitution leaves these terms undefined. Therefore,
we must make a legal determination regarding what the drafters and ratifiers
meant when they chose to deploy these words in Section Three. Mindful of the
deferential standard of review afforded a district court’s factual findings, we
conclude that the district court did not clearly err in concluding that the events of
January 6 constituted an insurrection and that President Trump engaged in that
insurrection.

We conclude that the foregoing evidence, the great bulk of which was
undisputed at trial, established that President Trump engaged in insurrection.
President Trump’s direct and express efforts, over several months, exhorting his
supporters to march to the Capitol to prevent what he falsely characterized as an
alleged fraud on the people of this country were indisputably overt and voluntary.
Moreover, the evidence amply showed that President Trump undertook all these
actions to aid and further a common unlawful purpose that he himself conceived
and set in motion: prevent Congress from certifying the 2020 presidential election
and stop the peaceful transfer of power.
 
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stevil

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The party worried about the state of of democracy is the one cheering on the removal of their opponents from state ballots

How Putanesque

should we only allow Democrats on presidential ballots now?
LOL
Only D Trump is being disqualified due to his involvement in the Insurrection attempt.

D Trump isn't even the Republican Presidential Candidate. It seems there is nothing to stop any of the others Republicans vying for the Presidential Candidate role to be on the Ballot.
 
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stevil

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see my post above

Trump has not been convicted (or even formally charged) with insurrection, and he was acquitted by the Senate
A conviction or acquital in the Senate is irrelevant. They have nothing to do with the justice system.
 
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Aryeh Jay

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The party worried about the state of of democracy is the one cheering on the removal of their opponents from state ballots

How Putanesque

should we only allow Democrats on presidential ballots now?

and speaking of Democrats, I like how they removed the other candidates off the primary ballot in Florida. This effectively canceled the Florida primary and awarded the electoral votes to Biden uncontested.

what next? maybe some court packing?

Who is worried about Democracy, Trump showed us the way to win and keep power. It was his followers and cowardly Mike Pence who failed. But we have learned the lesson, and next time, Democracy, or at least trump's version will prevail! And we can purify the lying press, get rid of those who are poisoning our blood, and he can be a dictator, but only on the first day.
 
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Trump has not been convicted of inciting any kind of "insurrection". He has been charged with three conspiracy counts, but that case is far from over. And then we have this
Yes, Trump was found not guilty by a jury of his Party. Justice still prevails in USA!
 
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BPPLEE

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If a court finds a Democratic President engaged in a insurrection, they would be subject to the same court rulings.

Either you believe in our Constitution....and the Court interpretation thereof. Or you don't.
How can a court decide someone is guilty of insurrection without a trial?
 
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ralliann

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Trump has not been convicted of inciting any kind of "insurrection". He has been charged with three conspiracy counts, but that case is far from over. And then we have this
Exactly, it was merely an opinion. This is dangerous stuff.
 
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BPPLEE

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A conviction or acquital in the Senate is irrelevant. They have nothing to do with the justice system.
The 14th amendment also guarantees due process, something Trump was not afforded. You can’t find someone guilty of insurrection without a trial.
 
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ralliann

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The 14th amendment also guarantees due process, something Trump was not afforded. You can’t find someone guilty of insurrection without a trial.
Doesn't bother marxists one bit.
 
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