CofC adds instrumental worships and deems it right???

[SilentRunner]

You might want to tell me (and others?) what ECF stands for.

And, wow, Chrysostom and Clement. There's a pair. Were they able to answer the age-old question of how many angels fit on the head of a pin?

All I see in defense of not using musical instruments during worship are convoluted and esoteric arguments that are very difficult to understand by the normal sinner. But things aren't that complicated in the New Testament. God's plan of salvation and what he wants us and does not want us to do in living a Christian life are simple and easy to understand.

So why is it so difficult to see that God Almighty hates musical instruments use when we honor him and why is it difficult to see that their use has been banned and prohibited upon pain of hellfire? If the steps we are to take to save our souls were as hidden and camouflaged as the musical instrument thing, no soul would ever be saved.

Could it be that the perceived prohibition against their use is a man-made addition to God's Word?

 

[JDIBe]

ECF stands for Early Church Fathers.

Thank you for the discussion and welcome to the forum. I hope you will find your time here as edifying as I have, and I look forward to reading your posts in the future.

Thanks again, and God bless you.

 

[- DRA -]

All I see in defense of not using musical instruments during worship are convoluted and esoteric arguments that are very difficult to understand by the normal sinner. But things aren't that complicated in the New Testament. God's plan of salvation and what he wants us and does not want us to do in living a Christian life are simple and easy to understand.

Matthew 7:21-23. Many say, "Lord, Lord," but do NOT do the Father's will. They think they are saved and serving the Lord, but He never recognizes them, and rejects them. Sad story - but true. It makes me suspect that God's plan of salvation isn't that simple or easy for some ot understand. Why not, we have to wonder. Is it God's fault for making things so hard to understand? According to 2 Tim. 3:16-17, God's word makes us complete, and thoroughly equips us to serve and please Him. I suspect the fault lies more in the lack of diligence men and women put forth into Bible study (2 Tim. 2:15). To illustrate, Matthew 2 offers three different aspects of Jesus' early life: He was born in Bethlehem, called out of Egypt, and called a Nazarene. Which aspect is true? Of course, they all are. "All Scripture is given by inspiration of God" per 2 Tim. 3:16a. Therefore, all three aspects are true. The same is true of salvation, including passages such as John 3:16 and Acts 2:38, as well as other relevant passages. And, the same is true of what God commanded in Ephesians 5:19. I think of the command in light of Hebrews 7:13-14. God had specifically stated in the law of Moses that priests would descend from the tribe of Levi. He was silent about the other tribes, including Judah. Jesus was from Judah. Therefore, per the reasoning in Hebrews 7:13-8:4, Jesus was NOT authorized to be a Levitical priest. Rather, He was a priest after a different order (the order of Melchizedek). From that principle I learn that when God specifically tells us what He wants (as He does in Ephesians 5:19), then we should do what He says (what He authorizes). He doesn't have to specifically prohibit something for it to be prohibited. Now, is that principle that hard to understand. Think back to the simple instruction God gave Noah. Make the ark of gopherwood. Noah did just as God told him, and Noah is commended as a man of faith for doing so in Hebrews 11. I think it's a pretty simple and easily understood lesson.

So why is it so difficult to see that God Almighty hates musical instruments use when we honor him and why is it difficult to see that their use has been banned and prohibited upon pain of hellfire? If the steps we are to take to save our souls were as hidden and camouflaged as the musical instrument thing, no soul would ever be saved.

Leviticus 10:1-2 (keeping in mind we should learn from the O.T. writings per Romans 15:4). Any evidence there that God hated fire? No. However, the evidence is overwhelming that God didn't like "strange fire" being used when He specified fire from a different source. Why is it so difficult to apply this principle?

Instead of "camouflaged" being the problem, I find 2 Thessalonians 2:10-12 to be a most sobering thought and closer to the heart of the matter. In short, a lack of truth leads one to conclude what one wants to conclude. God even sends "strong delusion" to those who are dead-set on having things their own way. This passage humbles me ... and reminds me that I need to constantly be looking inward to make sure it is really God's will that is foremost in my heart.

Could it be that the perceived prohibition against their use is a man-made addition to God's Word?

No, unless the Lord was wrong in His reasoning in Hebrews 7:13-14. I don't think He was. Therefore, I choose to do as He directs.

 

[SilentRunner]

Matthew 7:21-23. Many say, "Lord, Lord," but do NOT do the Father's will. They think they are saved and serving the Lord, but He never recognizes them, and rejects them. Sad story - but true. It makes me suspect that God's plan of salvation isn't that simple or easy for some ot understand.

Yes, I believe Jesus is referring to people who think that they are Christians and are saved. But they've failed somehow to do what God commands. Any chance that they're the ones who repeated the "Sinner's Prayer" and thought that that was all there was to it? Yes, the plan of salvation is simple and easy to understand. Some people, however, don't like to get their hair wet. (Or maybe they're the people who worshiped God with--heaven forbid--musical instruments!)

If I hear the priest argument one more time I'm going to puke. The Son of God can be anything he wants to be on this earth...or in heaven.

 

[SilentRunner]

.

 

[- DRA -]

If I hear the priest argument one more time I'm going to puke. The Son of God can be anything he wants to be on this earth...or in heaven.

Gotcha. God's silence about priests from the tribe of Judah authorized Jesus to be a Levitical priest per Hebrews 7:13-14. That's why verse 17 says, "You are a priest forever according to the order of Levi," right? Obviously, that is not the conclusion God's word makes.

And, perhaps you can hold off puking long enough to consider Hebrews 8:4: "For if He were on earth, He would not be a priest, since there are priests who offer the gifts according to the law."

Are there other passages of Scripture that also make you sick to your stomach, or is it just the idea that Jesus is a priest after the order of Melchizedek?

 

[SilentRunner]

Gotcha. God's silence about priests from the tribe of Judah authorized Jesus to be a Levitical priest per Hebrews 7:13-14. That's why verse 17 says, "You are a priest forever according to the order of Levi," right? Obviously, that is not the conclusion God's word makes.

And, perhaps you can hold off puking long enough to consider Hebrews 8:4: "For if He were on earth, He would not be a priest, since there are priests who offer the gifts according to the law."

Are there other passages of Scripture that also make you sick to your stomach, or is it just the idea that Jesus is a priest after the order of Melchizedek?

Don't be ridiculous. It's the repetition of the "priest argument" that somehow proves that God doesn't like musical instruments during worship that I'm tired of hearing because it does no such thing.

Show me in scripture where musical instruments during worship are specifically prohibited or at least examples of early Christians not using them during worship. Otherwise, show me in scripture where audio amplifiers, microphones, wall speakers and projectors are specifically authorized.

If it is God's command that I sing his praises, I will sing his praises. But whether I tap my foot while singing, whether I clap my hands while singing, whether I play a piano while singing, whether I sing in or off key, sing the wrong note occasionally or sing only the first and third verses should make absolutely no difference because none of them are prohibited. We are instructed to sing, pray and observe the Lord's Supper each Sunday. We are not instructed to not play musical instruments during worship.

 

[- DRA -]

Originally Posted by: - DRA -

Gotcha. God's silence about priests from the tribe of Judah authorized Jesus to be a Levitical priest per Hebrews 7:13-14. That's why verse 17 says, "You are a priest forever according to the order of Levi," right? Obviously, that is not the conclusion God's word makes.

And, perhaps you can hold off puking long enough to consider Hebrews 8:4: "For if He were on earth, He would not be a priest, since there are priests who offer the gifts according to the law."

Are there other passages of Scripture that also make you sick to your stomach, or is it just the idea that Jesus is a priest after the order of Melchizedek?

Don't be ridiculous. It's the repetition of the "priest argument" that somehow proves that God doesn't like musical instruments during worship that I'm tired of hearing because it does no such thing.

I'll be blunt and to the point. Might there be a reason that I keep having to remind folks such as yourself there are Scriptures that plainly show us that God's silence doesn't authorize other things when God tells what He wants? Why not just simply address Hebrews 7:13-14 so I won't have to keep bringing it up? If I'm mistaken on its meaning and application, then you can show us what the truth of the matter is and how the teaching should be correctly applied. Is that too much to ask?

Show me in scripture where musical instruments during worship are specifically prohibited or at least examples of early Christians not using them during worship. Otherwise, show me in scripture where audio amplifiers, microphones, wall speakers and projectors are specifically authorized.

Gotcha. Is everything not expressing forbidden acceptable to God, or just instrumental music? Was the strange fire prohibited in Leviticus 10:1-2. Nope. God just told them what to use. And, they used something else. And, God was very well pleased by their actions. Enough said.

Note 1 Peter 4:11a. Now, note Ephesians 5:19. Connect the dots.

Seems there might be a problem discerning generic from specific authority. Can I either send you a study or direct you to an online study that might help?

If it is God's command that I sing his praises, I will sing his praises. But whether I tap my foot while singing, whether I clap my hands while singing, whether I play a piano while singing, whether I sing in or off key, sing the wrong note occasionally or sing only the first and third verses should make absolutely no difference because none of them are prohibited. We are instructed to sing, pray and observe the Lord's Supper each Sunday. We are not instructed to not play musical instruments during worship.

Okay, I'm listening to your reasoning, but somehow it gets limited in scope to instrumental music. Take the last sentence in the paragraph. Granted, God does not instruct on what not to do in Ephesians 5:19. The reverse is true. God tells us what to do. Now, I realize this might sound a bit repetitious, but wouldn't the door be open to a lot of other options if your reasoning is correct? Framed another way, it's like you assume instrumental music is acceptable because it's not forbidden. Why stop there? Wouldn't the door be open for anything and everything not specifically forbidden? If not, why not? And, being "fair" and "consistent" with this reasoning, wouldn't it also apply to other passages? Everything not specifically prohibited is acceptable, right? In my way of thinking, that opens the door for a whole lot of changes. Since you mention the Lord's Supper, do you find any passages specifically prohibiting serving Diet Pepsi (one of my favorite drinks) along with the fruit of the vine. Answer, "No," there are no passages specifically prohibiting serving Diet Pepsi as a part of the Lord's Supper. Therefore, Diet Pepsi would be acceptable, right? Or, is that reasoning wrong?

 

[SilentRunner]

Okay, I'm listening to your reasoning, but somehow it gets limited in scope to instrumental music. Take the last sentence in the paragraph. Granted, God does not instruct on what not to do in Ephesians 5:19. The reverse is true. God tells us what to do. Now, I realize this might sound a bit repetitious, but wouldn't the door be open to a lot of other options if your reasoning is correct? Framed another way, it's like you assume instrumental music is acceptable because it's not forbidden. Why stop there? Wouldn't the door be open for anything and everything not specifically forbidden? If not, why not? And, being "fair" and "consistent" with this reasoning, wouldn't it also apply to other passages? Everything not specifically prohibited is acceptable, right? In my way of thinking, that opens the door for a whole lot of changes. Since you mention the Lord's Supper, do you find any passages specifically prohibiting serving Diet Pepsi (one of my favorite drinks) along with the fruit of the vine. Answer, "No," there are no passages specifically prohibiting serving Diet Pepsi as a part of the Lord's Supper. Therefore, Diet Pepsi would be acceptable, right? Or, is that reasoning wrong?

Gotcha. Yep, we are not prohibited from serving a soft drink during observance of the Lord's Supper. But why would we serve them? Christ Jesus used the fruit of the vine in his exhortation to drink it in remembrance of him. As someone...maybe you...said in this thread, you wouldn't want tlo play a softball game during worship even though we're not prohibited from doing so. We've got to use our God-given intelligence and reasoning in some of the decisions we make. Otherwise, God would have given us a tail and a banana tree instead of the Tree of Life.

So, playing musical instruments during worship...is it as disrupting as a softball game? Of course not. In fact it is not only not disruptive, it actually adds quality to the service. But maybe that's something you cannot feel having been brought up without musical instrument during worship...you feel very uncomfortable during such a service. If that's the case, then you should continue to worship with no musical instruments. But don't try to make the use of those instruments into a sin or try to justify your position by some far-fetched argument.

 

[- DRA -]

Originally Posted by: - DRA -

Gotcha. God's silence about priests from the tribe of Judah authorized Jesus to be a Levitical priest per Hebrews 7:13-14. That's why verse 17 says, "You are a priest forever according to the order of Levi," right? Obviously, that is not the conclusion God's word makes.

And, perhaps you can hold off puking long enough to consider Hebrews 8:4: "For if He were on earth, He would not be a priest, since there are priests who offer the gifts according to the law."

Are there other passages of Scripture that also make you sick to your stomach, or is it just the idea that Jesus is a priest after the order of Melchizedek?

I'll be blunt and to the point. Might there be a reason that I keep having to remind folks such as yourself there are Scriptures that plainly show us that God's silence doesn't authorize other things when God tells what He wants? Why not just simply address Hebrews 7:13-14 so I won't have to keep bringing it up? If I'm mistaken on its meaning and application, then you can show us what the truth of the matter is and how the teaching should be correctly applied. Is that too much to ask?

Gotcha. Is everything not expressing forbidden acceptable to God, or just instrumental music? Was the strange fire prohibited in Leviticus 10:1-2. Nope. God just told them what to use. And, they used something else. And, God was very well pleased by their actions. Enough said.

Note 1 Peter 4:11a. Now, note Ephesians 5:19. Connect the dots.

Seems there might be a problem discerning generic from specific authority. Can I either send you a study or direct you to an online study that might help?

Okay, I'm listening to your reasoning, but somehow it gets limited in scope to instrumental music. Take the last sentence in the paragraph. Granted, God does not instruct on what not to do in Ephesians 5:19. The reverse is true. God tells us what to do. Now, I realize this might sound a bit repetitious, but wouldn't the door be open to a lot of other options if your reasoning is correct? Framed another way, it's like you assume instrumental music is acceptable because it's not forbidden. Why stop there? Wouldn't the door be open for anything and everything not specifically forbidden? If not, why not? And, being "fair" and "consistent" with this reasoning, wouldn't it also apply to other passages? Everything not specifically prohibited is acceptable, right? In my way of thinking, that opens the door for a whole lot of changes. Since you mention the Lord's Supper, do you find any passages specifically prohibiting serving Diet Pepsi (one of my favorite drinks) along with the fruit of the vine. Answer, "No," there are no passages specifically prohibiting serving Diet Pepsi as a part of the Lord's Supper. Therefore, Diet Pepsi would be acceptable, right? Or, is that reasoning wrong?

Gotcha. Yep, we are not prohibited from serving a soft drink during observance of the Lord's Supper. But why would we serve them? Christ Jesus used the fruit of the vine in his exhortation to drink it in remembrance of him. As someone...maybe you...said in this thread, you wouldn't want tlo play a softball game during worship even though we're not prohibited from doing so. We've got to use our God-given intelligence and reasoning in some of the decisions we make. Otherwise, God would have given us a tail and a banana tree instead of the Tree of Life.

Sorry, but the softball illustration isn't mine. I'm simply the guy that is trying to point out the fallacy of reasoning that what's not prohibited is authorized and acceptable to God. In response to: "Why would we serve them" (i.e., soft drinks), the answer would be: "Because we can" ... assuming your reasoning is corrrect. If you can add instrumental music into Ephesians 5:19 because it is not prohibited, then the door is WIDE open for Diet Pepsi on the Lord's table and a myriad of other possibilities. That's the way things work. Unless, of course, you can show why this reasoning only applies to instrumental music.

So, playing musical instruments during worship...is it as disrupting as a softball game? Of course not. In fact it is not only not disruptive, it actually adds quality to the service. But maybe that's something you cannot feel having been brought up without musical instrument during worship...you feel very uncomfortable during such a service. If that's the case, then you should continue to worship with no musical instruments. But don't try to make the use of those instruments into a sin or try to justify your position by some far-fetched argument.

Good one. You think you've got me pegged. But, you haven't. I was brought up "heathen." Mom and dad never went to church. I went with my grandmother a few times growing up at a community/Pentecostal-type church. It wasn't until I began dating my wife (before she was my wife, of course) that I was exposed to God's point of view (i.e., what the Bible says). I was 19 at the time, and had already had a plan in mind for my life. It could be characterized as the good ole boy syndrome. However, I was compelled to make changes when I realized my plan differed from what God's word teaches. Some 33+ years later, I'm still a work in progress.

As for instrumental music, I assumed it was acceptable - just as I did a lot of denominational concepts - until exposed to what the Bible teaches. Once I realized it simply wasn't there, I felt inclined to just do what God says. From a personal preference, if it were my decision I would choose singing accompanied by instrumental music. However, the last time I checked, the decision is not mine to say what pleases God other than what God Himself said. I believe it's the right thing to do per 1 Peter 4:11a.

I'm not trying to make something out to be a sin that isn't, and if I'm presenting some far-fetched arguments to justify myself, then please help me see the error of my ways. Take Hebrews 7:13-14. There is a principle taught there. Silence doesn't authorize where God specifies. However, I understand why you are reluctant to discuss the idea about Jesus being a priest according to the order of Melchizedek in light of Hebrews 5:10-6:2. That text explains very clearly why you'd rather talk about baptism.

As for the application of principles, may I suggest a study of Matthew 4:5-7? Deuteronomy 6:16, that Jesus quotes, has nothing to do with jumping from the top of the temple in its context. Rather, the context is dealing with idolatry. However, Jesus applies the principle taught there (Deut. 6:16) to deliberately jumping from the top of the temple. I believe there's a powerful lesson there for us to learn. Either we learn the lessson, or we jump when we shouldn't.

I've said before, and I'll say it again, whether discussing instrumental music or other topics, the issue is really going to boil down to how we handle Scripture.

Now, back to an earlier question, "Are there other passages of Scripture that also make you sick to your stomach, or is it just the idea that Jesus is a priest after the order of Melchizedek?" Is silence that hard to understand in Hebrews 7:13-14, or is it just hard to apply the principle taught there because of what it does to the "instrumental music isn't prohibited" reasoning?

 

[SilentRunner]

Now, back to an earlier question, "Are there other passages of Scripture that also make you sick to your stomach, or is it just the idea that Jesus is a priest after the order of Melchizedek?"

You're an idiot. I never said any scripture made me sick.

The only thing that I'm sick of reading is your nonsensical argument about priests that you say supports your argument that musical instruments during worship are banned.

 

[- DRA -]

Originally Posted by - DRA -

Now, back to an earlier question, "Are there other passages of Scripture that also make you sick to your stomach, or is it just the idea that Jesus is a priest after the order of Melchizedek?"

You're an idiot. I never said any scripture made me sick.

According to your comments in Poste #164 on page 17, you said if you heard the priest argument one more time (i.e., Hebrews 7:13-14) you were going to puke. Like it or not, the priest argument is scriptural and inspired by God per 2 Timothy 3:16a. Clearly, for the umpteenth time, silence doesn't authorize where God has specifically commanded.

I commented previously in our discussions about your use of red herrings. Please refrain from the personal attacks and focus on the discussion. Instrumental music is the issue. Now, do you have something you'd like to contribute to the discussion from a scriptural point of view?

The only thing that I'm sick of reading is your nonsensical argument about priests that you say supports your argument that musical instruments during worship are banned.

If the argument is "nonsensical" as you say, then it should be pretty easy to explain the true meaning of Hebrews 7:13-14 - 8:4. We are waiting .............



Meanwhile, Ephesians 5:19 still says, "Speaking to one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord." My position is that silence (per the principle taught in Heb. 7:13-14) doesn't authorize something other than the singing of psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs. However, I'm open to fair and sincere discussion. Perhaps you can explain to us how silence authorized priests from Judah, which means Jesus could have been a Levitical priest, which defeats the reasoning that Jesus was a priest after the order of Melchizedek in Hebrews 7, and outright contradicts Hebrews 8:4.

Your turn. Please be civil and respectful. Let's both display the attitude that the truth must prevail (Romans 3:4).

 

[SilentRunner]

Then quit accusing me of saying that scripture makes me sick. I never said any such thing and you know it. If you want to keep this discussion on a civil level, refrain from false accusations and I'll not call you an idiot again.

 

[JDIBe]

Prove it, please. What is your source? Or are you just making up all of this?

So do I get to call you an "idiot", too?

Friend, you've been here for only 33 posts so far, and we've very nicely on several occasions asked you to tone it down just a bit. While this folder has considerably less light topics in it than most, we do try to refrain from name-calling. Your opinion is welcome and encouraged. We all do read what is written here and take it seriously. However, we must keep in mind we are one, talking to brothers, and two, that the outside world does come in occasionally and read what is written. We should conduct ourselves in such a way that reflects on our Lord in a positive way, and that goes for ALL of us. That is what we have tried to do in the past and I hope we will continue to do in the future.

Please feel free to attack the "idea". We respect differing viewpoints even if we do not agree with them. But name-calling does not further one's objective and only makes the name-caller look worse.

I don't know where the moderators are or what they are doing right now, but I hope they will weigh in on the subject.

 

[- DRA -]

Then quit accusing me of saying that scripture makes me sick. I never said any such thing and you know it. If you want to keep this discussion on a civil level, refrain from false accusations and I'll not call you an idiot again.

"If I hear the priest argument one more time I'm going to puke. The Son of God can be anything he wants to be on this earth...or in heaven." (your quote from Post #164 on page 17).

Now, as a reminder once again, this thread is entitled: "CofC adds instrumental worships and deems it right???" Is there something you would like to positively contribute to the discussion? Disagreements are fine, and it shouldn't be personal if they are discussed. Open discussion promotes growth, and hopefully, maturity. However, things need to be handled in the right manner. As JDIBe brought to our attention, folks are watching ... and these discussions are open to public scrutiny.

I honestly and sincerely believe you are overlooking a very important and relevant principle in Hebrews 7:13-14 that not only applies to Ephesians 5:19, but to any situation in which God specifically tells us what He wants. Silence doesn't authorize, it prohibits. The only thing authorized is what God specified. However, I might be mistaken. Perhaps you can help us better understand Hebrews 7:13-14 in its context. My goal is the truth ... nothing more ... nothing less.

 

[vja4Him]

What you observed might be true in some churches, but none that I've ever seen during worship ....

At our church and many others, this is what I've noticed during worship time (with musical instruments):
-- people are free to open up to the Lord, and worship God as they desire
-- some people are lifting their hands to praise God
-- some people are sitting during worship
-- some people are standing during worship
-- some people are getting excited about God (even moving around a bit)
-- many people are clapping their hands to praise God
-- people are not focused on the stage, or the musicians, or the musical instruments
-- people are really getting into worshipping the Lord
-- people's eyes are closed, and focusing on the Lord
-- people are being blessed, some even crying, on their knees
-- some people are holding hands
-- people are encouraging others during worship
-- the songs we sing at our church are convicting
-- the songs we sing at our church give a strong gospel message about Jesus, the cross, the blood of Christ, salvation through Jesus, etc.
-- we have a variety of songs, not all are upbeat, some are more mellow, and contemplative ...
-- the words on the screens are helpful for everyone to follow along
-- as far as having to learn the melody, that goes for whether or not you have hymnals or scripts with the words to the songs
-- not everyone is musically inclined, so some people take forever to catch on to the songs, whether the words are in a book they can hold, or on a screen
-- the songs have a relevant message, giving us hope, and convicting us, drawing us closer to God

I could probably add more ....

This topic has been on my heart for a long time - so I was glad to see this thread topic.

Side-stepping the "doctrinal" issues of instrumental music, it seems to me there are negative, unintended consequences with IM too.

I think it [inst. music] ought to enhance congregational worship, not supplant it. IMO the latter is not only occurring but doing so with greater momentum - and that concerns me, particularly knowing how fulfilling and edifying GOOD congregational singing can be for members and visitors alike.

Some observations I have re IM in worship:

• Worship seems to be shifting away from the pews to the stage
• Hymnals are disappearing, replaced by projected lyrics onto large screens or monitors.
• Lyrics appear on the screens without accompanying music. If you do not know the song, you must listen to the main melody for a verse or two before you "catch on" and can begin to sing along
• 4-part harmony is disappearing - the four basic "voices" (soprano, alto, tenor, bass) are merging into one "voice" - whatever voice the entertainers on stage have.
• Over amplification "drowns out" the sound of those in the pews. In some cases, the amplification is so loud you cannot even hear the person next to you singing.
• Center-Stage Focus: There is no "encouraging one another" in our singing - looking around at one another in the pews, singing to each other and to God - instead, all eyes are focused forward - to the entertainment.
• "Entertainment" rather than participative involvement. It is almost as if the people in the pews are discouraged from singing in favor of just watching and listening to the crowd on stage.
• Song selection is so random and diverse that it is rare the congregation sings the same song more than once in a few months or more. How can a congregation get good, if they can never practice the same song?
• Song selection often picks songs unknown by a majority of the people in the pews, preventing them from really singing.
• Song selection is shifting to songs created by popular Christian musicians, songs they wrote specifically for their voices and their singing talents, songs that most non-musicians have great difficulty singing themselves, songs basically not designed for congregational singing
• If you look over the people in the pews, most are merely mouthing the words to the songs, lips barely moving.
• It seems too that there are more people who are not even singing at all.
• When the rare acapella song is sung, it is so unexpected the unprepared audience barely raises their voices at all.
• Major performances/productions - bands, choirs, more and more people on stage.
• Worship, IMO is becoming more stimulating yet less fulfilling, more enjoyable, yet less worshipful.
• Silence is anathema! RARE are contemplative times in worship - every second seems to be taken up with some "activity" or "background noise," including during the Lord's Supper and public prayers.
• "Worship" seems less today about giving than about receiving, less about participation than being entertained.

I dearly miss the vibrant, interactive worship of corporate congregational singing. I miss the sounds of four-part harmony. I miss the opportunity to really sing WITH one another TO God.

I don't oppose instrumental music per se, but I fear we are, as an unintended consequence, losing our ability as a church to SING - to PRAISE GOD with the voices He has given us. On that basis alone, I totally dislike it.

Thanks! Great thread topic!

 

[- DRA -]

At our church and many others, this is what I've noticed during worship time (with musical instruments):
-- people are free to open up to the Lord, and worship God as they desire
-- some people are lifting their hands to praise God
-- some people are sitting during worship
-- some people are standing during worship
-- some people are getting excited about God (even moving around a bit)
-- many people are clapping their hands to praise God
-- people are not focused on the stage, or the musicians, or the musical instruments
-- people are really getting into worshipping the Lord
-- people's eyes are closed, and focusing on the Lord
-- people are being blessed, some even crying, on their knees
-- some people are holding hands
-- people are encouraging others during worship
-- the songs we sing at our church are convicting
-- the songs we sing at our church give a strong gospel message about Jesus, the cross, the blood of Christ, salvation through Jesus, etc.
-- we have a variety of songs, not all are upbeat, some are more mellow, and contemplative ...
-- the words on the screens are helpful for everyone to follow along
-- as far as having to learn the melody, that goes for whether or not you have hymnals or scripts with the words to the songs
-- not everyone is musically inclined, so some people take forever to catch on to the songs, whether the words are in a book they can hold, or on a screen
-- the songs have a relevant message, giving us hope, and convicting us, drawing us closer to God

I could probably add more ....

Probably more should be added ... particularly the authority for instrumental music in worship. Authority has but one of two sources: either it comes from God or from men (Matt. 21:25). If from God, we should be able to provide the Scriptural basis for it under the law of Christ.

 

[DISCIPLE61]

So far, this, my second day on this forum, has brought little light on any subject I have perused. In-fighting seems to be the new religion here. I was hoping for better. Anyway ...

I think the issue of music/no music has been blown out of proportion to its value to the believer and its purpose as God sees it.

In my years of experience as a praise team member I recall many people totally lost trying to find the "Key" or harmony, or whatever, and losing sight of the purpose for which Worship is undertaken in the first place.

- Is it about competing with your neighbor?
- Am I more spiritual than thou because I have this great voice?
- Can I truly praise God, or is my self-consciousness showing?

Probably all three. Also, I have to ask; are the worship songs doctrinally correct? I don't want to cite any examples because so many are attached to them, but yet I persist. Are they pure and correct? No, I think not; and if so, why are we singing them anymore than why are we adopting skewed doctrines in our studies?

Food for thought.

Blessings,

D

Probably more should be added ... particularly the authority for instrumental music in worship. Authority has but one of two sources: either it comes from God or from men (Matt. 21:25). If from God, we should be able to provide the Scriptural basis for it under the law of Christ.

 

[Caleb4387]

We are suuposed to come before his presence with singing! Instruments and singing is just praise. Speaking in tongues is the only way to truly worship God.

 

[Mozartboy]

I can't see the last page of this thread. I've done everything I could think of, but nothing will work.