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airō;54945067 said:
You have a very high opinion of your opinion, I'll give you that much.
Interesting. Two things: 1) You do realize that doesn't even come close to answering the question I asked you right?
and 2) who gets to decide which of "these basic fundamentals." are the deal breakers?
tulc(just wondering)
airō;55180317 said:Infallibility of Scripture
Virgin birth
Deity of Jesus Christ as the Son of God
Sola fide
Sola Gratia
Solus Christus
Bodily Resurrection of Christ
His Second Coming
God decides these are deal breakers.
Theology (unlike Biology, for example) is not the study of God, but what one already believes and teaches about God. Theology, in this sense, represents not your pursuit of God, but what you think you've already grasped about him. Theology has been subtly replaced by dogma, and dogma is enforced by the validity of the institution, and vice versa, the institution is validated by its dogma.
Therefore, if others who are studying God (theology, in the biology-like sense) find something other than that which our institution already holds to be true (theology, in the dogma sense), then those findings threaten the validity of our institution by challenging our enforcement of some particular dogma.
Coexisting means we have to be humble enough to accept that there is a range of uncertainty about God, a range our dogma does not allow. So, we find that we must choose between coexistence and our institution. For us, the choice is obvious. We must side with the institution and defend its power, or the "truth" will be lost to the pagans!
Thus, peaceful co-existence is bad for our power struggle, and therefore bad for us.
It does not phase us that the central story of our faith revolves around an episode in which a man challenged the predominant religious institution of his day to set down their struggle for power in order to co-exist with those they saw as enemies, and to love freely. In our story, they killed him over this, and we praise him for that martyrdom, among other things. We make villains out of that institution and its struggle for power. We think we're better than they were. We think we understand God better than they did. We think we grasp that man's message as they clearly did not.
And then, we show we are just like them by spouting off rhetoric that is not fundamentally different than theirs. We choose power over love, judgment over co-existence, fundamentalism over humanitarianism. We choose sides by creating sides. We choose to preserve the church over preserving the truth.
At least, that's what it looks like from the perspective of most non-Christians I minister with, which is the number one reason they are content remaining agnostic. Maybe we can afford some unaffiliated peer review. Maybe.
airō;54936821 said:...An essential doctrine of Christianity is that absolutely no one can enter heaven except they go through the blood...
Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaatttttttttt????????As an aside, why do I usually see "save the planet" stickers all over ancient VW vans which probably get about 8 MPG and pollute like crazy?
All religion seems to need to prove that it's the only truth. And that's where it turns demonic. Because that's when you get religious wars and persecutions and burning heretics at the stake.
John Shelby Spong
Wait...are you saying all forms of Christianity agree 100% on those doctrines?And when they disagree, who decides which one is right?
tulc(just curious)
airō;55184583 said:Denying the essentials deny the saving Gospel, therefore denies God, therefore denies salvation, therefore is condemned.
uhmmm...ok.A cat can call itself a dog all day, but it's still a cat.
airō;55184583 said:Denying the essentials deny the saving Gospel, therefore denies God, therefore denies salvation, therefore is condemned.
A cat can call itself a dog all day, but it's still a cat.
Also, I don't think Paul was trying to say "everyone who thinks we should all get along is really trying to push some 'new age,' 'universalist' junk."
It is certainly a rough paradigm you have created for yourself.
airō;55185977 said:Virgin birth - this is essential otherwise Jesus would have been born out of sin.
The deity of Jesus as the Son of God - if you deny Jesus as God, then you deny Him as Savior.
Sola fide, sola gratia, solus Christus - we are justified by the grace of God alone through faith alone in Jesus Christ alone. Salvation comes through the blood atonement for the forgiveness of sins. That is the Gospel - add anything thing to that and you are accursed.
Infallibility of the Bible - if you do not accept the Bible as the absolute authority on morality and salvation, and you do not accept it as without error, you make God out to be imperfect and insufficient to do what He says He did, what He is doing, and what He will do. Most certainly, one who is new in the faith may not accept this to be true, but as they grow in the faith they will learn that indeed the Bible is without error.
Christ's resurrection - Paul said if there is no resurrection, then we believe in vain. If there is no resurrection and the only hope is the life we have now, then we are the most pitiful of all men.
2nd Coming - to deny Christ will come again is to call Him a liar.
airō;55184583 said:Denying the essentials deny the saving Gospel, therefore denies God, therefore denies salvation, therefore is condemned.
A cat can call itself a dog all day, but it's still a cat.
And 100% of all Christians in the world agree 100% with your understanding of those doctrines?
tulc(is still trying to get some answers here)
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