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Co-Redemptrix/Mediatrix?

ArmyMatt

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Huh. I've never heard this before. It's a little mind-blowing, in the best possible way... So you view asking others to intercede for us as primarily a confession of Christ's victory and destruction of all boundaries to the spiritual life?

yep, and a very real aspect of His victory


pretty sure there is some interaction between Jeremiah and the Jews.


yep, if a departed sinner can pray to a saint and get an answer, why can't the rest of us?

Regarding intercession at Cana, I guess that's true. But in the end Mary directs them to Christ, so wouldn't we suppose she'd do the same now and would prefer us to go to him?

yes, the saints direct us to Christ. the same way your pastor does. if you have no qualms about asking your pastor to pray for you, how much more for the Mother of the Lord?


it does in the Martyrdom of Polycarp, I believe. which is very early.


but if the reformers were protesting something that was not an issue in the East, there would be nothing to reform....hence Orthodoxy
 
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AMM

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That's true. The more I read about this, the more I begin to see that, even if it isn't explicitly commanded in Scripture, it doesn't seem opposed to Scripture. It's certainly not opposed to history and the tradition of the church.

It seems like protestants started with the idea that saints should not be invoked and then proceeded to find texts and interpretations that support this view. Whereas if we start with the idea that they should be invoked, then we can find numerous texts to support the practice. At best, ours is an argument from silence.

My only hesitation is (and I fully admit that this is pretty dumb and arguably the height of my protestantism showing through) that many times the reason given is what you gave at the end -- miracles. In theory even a miracle can be from Satan to deceive and lead astray. Of course, it doesn't follow then that all miracles are Satanic - by no means am I saying that - just that we cannot base our faith on such miracles, "An evil and adulterous generation seeks for a sign, but no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah."

pretty sure there is some interaction between Jeremiah and the Jews.
Judas has a vision of Onias and Jeremiah; Onias tells Judas who Jeremiah is, and then Jeremiah gives Judas a sword and tells him it's a gift from God. Then Judas tells the Jews "about his dream, a kind of vision that they could trust in" (2 Macc 15:11). So you're right, there is interaction.

yes, the saints direct us to Christ. the same way your pastor does. if you have no qualms about asking your pastor to pray for you, how much more for the Mother of the Lord?
Fair point.

it does in the Martyrdom of Polycarp, I believe. which is very early.
It's been a while since I've read it... I recall veneration of his relics, but not explicit invocation. I may be misremembering though.

but if the reformers were protesting something that was not an issue in the East, there would be nothing to reform....hence Orthodoxy
Touche... you got me there
 
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All4Christ

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My initial request for the Theotokos to intercede for me was something along the lines of:

God please forgive me if any of this is wrong, and give me peace if this is right to do...Theotokos, Mother of God, please pray for....

It helped me to feel confident in the peace I felt after this prayer.

Perhaps it is over simplistic, but it helped me.
 
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