Co-Redeemer?

[Benedicta00]

Sure was!

Okay now how do we have the incarnation- "Word made flesh" with out Mary? How was he going to die for sin if he was never born?

 

[simonthezealot]

Okay now how do we have the incarnation- "Word made flesh" with out Mary? How was he going to die for sin if he was never born?

Cut to the chase you can answer these for me, I won't accuse you of putting words in my mouth do it like this

Bene says:
Simon says:

I wish to sit back and watch and hum my favorite hymn... It goes like this.

I know that my co-redeemer lives!

Familiar with it? it is similar to some of the Resurrection day hymns

 

[Benedicta00]

Cut to the chase you can answer these for me, I won't accuse you of putting words in my mouth do it like this

Bene says:
Simon says:

I wish to sit back and watch and hum my favorite hymn... It goes like this.

I know that my co-redeemer lives!

Familiar with it? it is similar to some of the Resurrection day hymns

You are the one who needs to cut to the chase and deal with the fact that Catholics have no motive to make Mary a divine redeemer by calling her co redeemer.

Man will live for evermore because of Christmas day.

I know you really don't take issue with this, least you shouldn't.

No Mary-- no Jesus. This is the way God has set this whole thing up to be.

If you don't like it, then I suggest you discuss it with Him and not us. .

 

[simonthezealot]

Man will be forevermore because of resurrection day.

 

[Benedicta00]

Man will be forevermore because of resurrection day.

In a over reaction, rather be dead that agree with a Catholic... you have totally ignoring a critical part of our salvation, the incarnation.

Just how do you propose the resurrection saved us if we would have never had the incarnation happen first? .

 

[simonthezealot]

Man will live for evermore because of Christmas day.

No Mary-- no Jesus. This is the way God has set this whole thing up to be.

If you don't like it, then I suggest you discuss it with Him and not us. .

2 cor 11;
3But I am afraid that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent's cunning, your minds may somehow be led astray from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ.

Why focus on his Mother, why wouldn't you want to focus on the one thing He and only He will ever do? Resurrect!
I just don't see how so much praise and veneration and adoration can be so attached to Mary and her giving birth and such.

Ya know its kinda like Gibsons the Passion'. It stopped short of showing the one thing only He (Christ) could have done!

 

[lionroar0]

Did Mary create Jesus? in your opinion?

No one has said that Mary has created Jesus.

What has been said is that Mary gave birth to Jesus.

Peace

 

[simonthezealot]

In a over reaction, rather be dead that agree with a Catholic... you have totally ignoring a critical part of our salvation, the incarnation.

Just how do you propose the resurrection saved us if we would have never had the incarnation happen first? .

double

 

[simonthezealot]

In a over reaction, rather be dead that agree with a Catholic... you have totally ignoring a critical part of our salvation, the incarnation.

Just how do you propose the resurrection saved us if we would have never had the incarnation happen first? .

I don't deny the incarnation.

 

[Benedicta00]

No one has said that Mary has created Jesus.

What has been said is that Mary gave birth to Jesus.

Peace

and unless one thinks God does things at random, God made Mary a necessary part of our salvation.

No incarnation- no death- no death- no resurrection. It is just that darn simple.
.

 

[Benedicta00]

I don't deny the incarnation.

You can't... so how were we to have a resurrection if we had no incarnation? Go ahead... say it ..it's okay.. we wouldn't. Would we? .

 

[lionroar0]

2 cor 11;
3But I am afraid that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent's cunning, your minds may somehow be led astray from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ.

Why focus on his Mother, why wouldn't you want to focus on the one thing He and only He will ever do? Resurrect!
I just don't see how so much praise and veneration and adoration can be so attached to Mary and her giving birth and such.

Ya know its kinda like Gibsons the Passion'. It stopped short of showing the one thing only He (Christ) could have done!

It's because others think that Catholics focus more on Mary then on Jesus Christ.

And also personal Marian Devotions are optional.

The number of times that Mary is actually venerated by the whole CC as a whole is very little.


http://www.ewtn.com/library/LITURGY/FEAST.txt
According to Pope Paul VI, in Marialis Cultus, the 4 most important
Marian feasts in the Calendar are: Mary's Divine Motherhood, her
Immaculate Conception, her Assumption and the Annunciation of the Lord
(#6 at 18). Of these four feasts, the feasts of Mary's Divine
Motherhood, her Immaculate Conception and her Assumption are holydays
of obligation under The Code of Canon Law: Canon 1246(1).

Peace

 

[sunlover1]

It's because others think that Catholics focus more on Mary then on Jesus Christ.

Yeah, I guess that's probably the problem
LionRoar.
It's so difficult for me.
Use the example of how a couple of the
girls say that we're degrading mary
if we don't venerate her.

I guess you can imagine how defensive
I get over my Jesus.
So, to me, for any human to get this
much press is very confusing.

I have cried more than once reading
some of the threads.

Hey, I'm female too, what can I say.

But emotion aside, because we cannot
let our senses dictate to us, we need
to master them,
I am seriously looking for the truth.
So far, the Bible indicates that it's Christ
alone who redeemed, The blood of the Lamb.

sunlover

 

[lionroar0]

Yeah, I guess that's probably the problem
LionRoar.
It's so difficult for me.
Use the example of how a couple of the
girls say that we're degrading mary
if we don't venerate her.

There will always be people at the far edges of the bell curve in every "camp."

That's not a healthy attitude IMO

I guess you can imagine how defensive
I get over my Jesus.
So, to me, for any human to get this
much press is very confusing.

I have cried more than once reading
some of the threads.

Hey, I'm female too, what can I say.

No one is attacking Jesus. The perception sometimes is because we honor the whole family of Christ. Including those that have led a heroic Christian life that this sometimes takes away from Christ.

Nothing could be further from the truth. The Saints in heaven including Mary could not have led a heroic christian life if it were not for the grace of Christ. They things that they have accomplished was because of the grace of God. There was nothing that they could have done under their own power except follow God's will.

If we can honor sports athletes for their physical gifts and actors and artists for their gifts.

Then why not those that have led an heroic and exemplary heroic christian life?

It's not an either/or situation. We honor Christ in every person in every child that is concieved.

Thats' why the Catholic Church has such a strong stance against abortion. ( but that's another forum and thread.)

But emotion aside, because we cannot
let our senses dictate to us, we need
to master them,
I am seriously looking for the truth.
So far, the Bible indicates that it's Christ
alone who redeemed, The blood of the Lamb.

No one has debated that.

Peace

 

[sunlover1]

There will always be people at the far edges of the bell curve in every "camp."

That's not a healthy attitude IMO



No one is attacking Jesus. The perception sometimes is because we honor the whole family of Christ. Including those that have led a heroic Christian life that this sometimes takes away from Christ.

Nothing could be further from the truth. The Saints in heaven including Mary could not have led a heroic christian life if it were not for the grace of Christ. They things that they have accomplished was because of the grace of God. There was nothing that they could have done under their own power except follow God's will.

If we can honor sports athletes for their physical gifts and actors and artists for their gifts.

Then why not those that have led an heroic and exemplary heroic christian life?

It's not an either/or situation. We honor Christ in every person in every child that is concieved.

Thats' why the Catholic Church has such a strong stance against abortion. ( but that's another forum and thread.)



No one has debated that.

Peace

Thank you Lionsroar.

Blessings to you,
sunlover

 

[IamAdopted]

Baloney.


"When there is sin there is no grace when there is grace there is no sin."

Grace is where sin is, because that is where it is needed
[/QUOTE]

Red herring.

This is what I posted.

Sin and grace the opposites of eahc other. When there is sin there is no grace when there is grace there is no sin.

Filled completely with grace as she was there was no sin on her.


Peace

Grace is unmerited favor from God.. Where there is sin grace abounds more... So we have Gods grace to overcome our sin.. We are all saved by grace.. We still have sin.. the bible says if we say we are without sin we lie and the truth is not in us.. This would also go for Mary.. Her being human like the rest of us..

 

[IamAdopted]

Ain't it though?

Here is why we say Mary is co redeemer.

Jesus Christ was born on Christmas Day
and man will live for evermore because of Christmas Day

A long time ago in Bethlehem so the Holy Bible said
Mary's Boy Child Jesus Christ was born on Christmas Day.

Hark now hear the angels sing
a King was born today
and man will live for evermore because of Christmas Day
Mary's Boy Child
Jesus Christ was born on Christmas Day.

While shepherds watched their flocks
by night they see a bright new shinig star
they hear a choir sing a song

the music seemed to come from afar.

Hark now hear the angels sing
a King was born today
and man will live for evermore because of Christmas Day


For a moment the world was aglow
all the bells rang out
there were tears of joy and laughter
people shouted let ev'ryone know
there is hope for all to find peace.

How Joseph and his wife Mary came to Bethlehem that night, they found no place to bear her child not a single room was in sight and then they found a little nook in a stable all forlorn and in a manger cold and dark Mary's little boy was born.

Hark now hear the angels sing
a King was born today
and man will live for evermore because of Christmas Day
Mary's Boy Child
Jesus Christ was born on Christmas Day.

For a moment the world was aglow


Oh my Lord
you send your son to save us
oh my Lord
your very self you gave us
oh my Lord
that sin may not enslave us
and love may reign once more.

Oh my Lord
when in the crib they found him
oh my lord
a golden halo crowned him
oh my Lord
they gathered all around him
to see him and adore.

Oh my Lord
with the child's adoration
oh my Lord
there came great jubilation
oh my Lord
and full of admiration
they realized what they had

Oh my Lord (well praise the Lord)
they had just begun to doubt you
oh my Lord (he is the truth forever)
what did they know about you.

Oh my Lord (so praise the Lord)
but they were lost without you
they needed you so bad (his light is shinig on us)

Oh my Lord (oh my Lord so praise the Lord)
with the child's adoration
Lord (oh my Lord
he is a persontion).
There came great jubilation
oh my Lord (so praise the Lord)
and full of admiration
they realized what they had .

People have always had eternity.. We were created in the Image of God.. Eternal life comes by faith in Christ.. Those who try to come through a different way are thieves and robbers and there eternity will not be with the Lord but apart from the Lord..

 

[IamAdopted]

Not in a direct way no, but did the birth of Jesus help or not?

Help in what way? To get Him into the world born as a baby to grow and become the lamb of God who taketh away the sins of the world.. It is still His blood only that remission of sin and salvation comes..

 

[lionroar0]

Grace is unmerited favor from God.. Where there is sin grace abounds more... So we have Gods grace to overcome our sin.. We are all saved by grace.. We still have sin.. the bible says if we say we are without sin we lie and the truth is not in us.. This would also go for Mary.. Her being human like the rest of us..

And she recieved God into her womb. The source of Grace.

Who took on our human nature from Mary. She did nothing to deserve this.

Peace

 

[lionroar0]

People have always had eternity.. We were created in the Image of God.. Eternal life comes by faith in Christ.. Those who try to come through a different way are thieves and robbers and there eternity will not be with the Lord but apart from the Lord..

And who is trying to come through another way?

Peace