Co-Redeemer?

[Benedicta00]

Well sort of.

Well yeah.. but you see this was written hundreds of years ago by a saint who was extreme devoted to Mary and I not saying they were in error but their writings come with notations where their choice of words are explained.

And this is all speculation to boot. Do I believe it? yeah but that's because I have good understanding of what's meant and I have no issue seeing Mary and Jesus as team.

 

[sunlover1]

Well yeah.. but you see this was written hundreds of years ago by a saint who was extreme devoted to Mary and I not saying they were in error but their writings come with notations where their choice of words are explained.

And this is all speculation to boot. Do I believe it? yeah but that's because I have good understanding of what's meant and I have no issue seeing Mary and Jesus as team.

It was endorsed by your church but that
doesn't mean you have to agree with it.

Yeah, it may have been written a long time
ago, I'm not sure, but either way,
I don't think any explanation would change
too much what it says.

God has ordained that no grace will be granted to us except through Mary. It is a doctrine preached by all the saints that no grace will come to us from heaven without passing through Mary's hands. No one will be saved nor obtain mercy except through You, O' heavenly lady. Remember this well, no one will enter heaven without passing through Mary as one would pass through a door. O' Mary, our salvation is in your hands.


I don't agree with everything about any
church, but I don't think that's what
God will judge me on.

I think it's more of a matter of the heart.

 

[PassthePeace1]

Yeah, it may have been written a long time
ago, I'm not sure, but either way,
I don't think any explanation would change
too much what it says.

God has ordained that no grace will be granted to us except through Mary. It is a doctrine preached by all the saints that no grace will come to us from heaven without passing through Mary's hands. No one will be saved nor obtain mercy except through You, O' heavenly lady. Remember this well, no one will enter heaven without passing through Mary as one would pass through a door. O' Mary, our salvation is in your hands.

Sunlover, what is the source you are getting your quotes from? If it is an anti-catholic site, they pull things out of context, and project their own meaning on to the quote. However, if you read the whole thing in context, and other writings by the same author, you get a better understanding of what the intent, of the author was saying. You can't judge someone's whole believe system, by one quote.

It was discussed on the Glories of Mary thread, the use of archaic language, and how the reader of one time, might interpet what is being conveyed, in the writing, differently than how someone today, would interpet the same writing. This is why one has to take a more scholarly approach, when reading something that is dealing with a complex subject matter.

Also, there is cultural reasons, on how the same writing can be interpreted differently, by different groups of people. Someone with a Catholic mindset, and understanding of the Church's teachings, would know that the author was not elavating Mary, to be equal with God. Because we have a clear understand that Mary was a creature, and that a creature can't be equal with God. And obviously, judging by the threads on this forum, some Protestants would not interpret it, with an understanding of what a Catholic writer's intent was, in his writings.

I used the word some Protestants, because and not all Protestants; because I have meet some, that do take a more scholarly approach to reading writings from Catholic authors.

 

[Benedicta00]

It was endorsed by your church but that
doesn't mean you have to agree with it.

Yeah, it may have been written a long time
ago, I'm not sure, but either way,
I don't think any explanation would change
too much what it says.

God has ordained that no grace will be granted to us except through Mary. It is a doctrine preached by all the saints that no grace will come to us from heaven without passing through Mary's hands. No one will be saved nor obtain mercy except through You, O' heavenly lady. Remember this well, no one will enter heaven without passing through Mary as one would pass through a door. O' Mary, our salvation is in your hands.


I don't agree with everything about any
church, but I don't think that's what
God will judge me on.

I think it's more of a matter of the heart.

It's not an official belief that no one will be saved unless Mary helps them out but with that said, she does also pray for non Catholics.

It's just something that non Catholics can't wrap their heads around that Mary desires our salvation and will do what she can to ensure it.

The crux here is, is having a heavenly mother who is human and not ominscent, okay? I think it is.

For a second, think about it... wouldn't it be nice to have a mother in heaven that acts as a mother and comforts us and cares for us?

 

[Uphill Battle]

It's not an official belief that no one will be saved unless Mary helps them out but with that said, she does also pray for non Catholics.

It's just something that non Catholics can't wrap their heads around that Mary desires our salvation and will do what she can to ensure it.

The crux here is, is having a heavenly mother who is human and not ominscent, okay? I think it is.

For a second, think about it... wouldn't it be nice to have a mother in heaven that acts as a mother and comforts us and cares for us?

you have alot of "knowledge" of what Mary does. I assume it is all church teaching, instead of firsthand knowledge!

 

[Benedicta00]

you have alot of "knowledge" of what Mary does. I assume it is all church teaching, instead of firsthand knowledge!

I rather say it's wisdom that i certainly have done nothing to merit but it's wisdom from God.

I have a good understanding of what the Church teaches. I don't doubt it because I can see it so clearly in scripture and in my heart.

 

[Uphill Battle]

I rather say it's wisdom that i certainly have done nothing to merit but it's wisdom from God.

I have a good understanding of what the Church teaches. I don't doubt it because I can see it so clearly in scripture and in my heart.

heart, perhaps.

And I admire that you hold fast to your beliefs. Scripture does not support the majority of what is said about Mary, however. It is either a) extrabiblical, but true, or b) extrabiblical, but untrue, but it is most certainly not c) biblical.

 

[sunlover1]

I rather say it's wisdom that i certainly have done nothing to merit but it's wisdom from God.

I have a good understanding of what the Church teaches. I don't doubt it because I can see it so clearly in scripture and in my heart.

Just hope you read the letter too.

 

[Benedicta00]

heart, perhaps.

And I admire that you hold fast to your beliefs. Scripture does not support the majority of what is said about Mary, however. It is either a) extrabiblical, but true, or b) extrabiblical, but untrue, but it is most certainly not c) biblical.

In light of the whole of Tradition which is what scripture is, Catholic Tradition, I say it is.

But how can we settle this? How can we know which one of us is reading the bible correctly (me, through the eyes of Tradition, you, through I dunno what eyes) and interpreting it correctly?

 

[Benedicta00]

Just hope you read the letter too.

what letter?

 

[repentant]

"whew"... what a leap!
...the end justifies the means?
Could we build a "Master Religion" on that?

Sorry, it just sounds scary to me. I thought the end was justified BY the means, but then I believe in predestination & eternal security, so how reliable am I, right?

No, "the end justifies the means." If I said, "the end is justified by the means", then I would be putting more focus on Mary saying yes as being our focus of salvation, instead of the fact that Christ died for us. In other words, the means was more important than the end. By saying, "The end justifies the means", then I am saying that Jesus dieing for us is the main focus of our salvation, and the end result was more important than the way it happened..

Maybe she said yes, but realy meant no.

Yea maybe...

Your spiritual father sounds like a candidate for "The He-Man Women Hater's Cub" with Spanky & Alfalfa from Our Gang.

No when he told me this it really had nothing to do with women, but the fact that sometimes temptations are hidden in something beautiful. I was young and well you know..at the time, and this was a way for him to get me to understand what he was trying to tell me..

But realy, that fear of women is ancient and entrenched in patriarchal priesthoods. Women are seen as a source of ritual uncleaness. The Victorian stereotype is relatively modern. Classic antiquity regarded women as sexualy voracious.

Point taken, but obviously irrelevant..

 

[Rhamiel]

"But realy, that fear of women is ancient and entrenched in patriarchal priesthoods."
God set up an all male priesthood in the old testement and an all male apostlelate in the new. This is not victorian fears, it is the Bible

 

[sunlover1]

It's just something that non Catholics can't wrap their heads around that Mary desires our salvation and will do what she can to ensure it.

But there is nothing that she can do
to ensure it, according to the Bible.
Christ alone.

 

[Iamadoptedme]

But there is nothing that she can do
to ensure it, according to the Bible.
Christ alone.

This is true, it is Christ alone,, this is IAA , tee hee I am on vacation and forgot my password so I had to make a new account,

 

[Iamadoptedme]

All we have for salvation and all we need is in Christ alone. He is the one that God has given us to worship, trust in, believe in and it is His righteousness alone that anyone of us can stand, Even Mary.. She is not righteous on her own merits.. She also had to trust in Christ to save her.. He is above all..

 

[sunlover1]

This is true, it is Christ alone,, this is IAA , tee hee I am on vacation and forgot my password so I had to make a new account,

I wondered what happened!
Vacation? I am so jealous.

As you can see,
Benedicta is here and fine, praise God.

 

[Iamadoptedme]

I wondered what happened!
Vacation? I am so jealous.

As you can see,
Benedicta is here and fine, praise God.

Yahoo I am glad to hear this... good to see her.. Yes I am on a short vacation ... Heading back home today

 

[Iollain]

Wooo, vacation!

 

[Rick Otto]

Right, not Victorian fear,... much older.

"But realy, that fear of women is ancient and entrenched in patriarchal priesthoods."
God set up an all male priesthood in the old testement and an all male apostlelate in the new. This is not victorian fears, it is the Bible

The "all male (apostolate)" part is very arguable Rham, bro. Very.
And an apostolate does NOT = a pristhood. If you take away the magical aura of the Mass, the existence of a priestly caste with ritual purity is hard to justify.

The sign business just went into overdrive. I worked till midnight Friday & clocked back in Sat., 7am for 4 hrs.

 

[Iamadoptedme]

I still don't see where Mary is co-redeemer. She has redeemed no one really. She couldn't even redeem herself. Only Christ can redeem us and it is through the blood that anyone can redeemed so I guess I don't understand..