CNN reports Biden making five false claims about guns

RocksInMyHead

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Again, this is a rewrite of what he said.
And post #14 wasn't? I already pointed out that he did not say what you claimed he said either.
If a pistol brace magically made a weapon higher-caliber then yes, this would be a relevant safety concern. But that is false. Saying that there is a safety concern for some other reason, unrelated to caliber, is not very helpful to Biden's case.
A brace allows you to controllably fire rifle-caliber ammunition from a gun that is nominally classified as a pistol. As a "pistol" it is small enough to be easily concealable, so, in essence, it allows people to carry more dangerous weapons covertly. This is a safety concern, related to caliber.
Note that the intent here is to discredit Biden by showing that he is inarticulate, unreliable, ignorant, or perhaps just a plain old liar.
I'm not going to speculate on CNN's intent, but fact checks should be used to point out meaningful factual errors (such as the other errors that this fact check pointed out). Biden being inarticulate is not a factual error.
 
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zippy2006

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And post #14 wasn't? I already pointed out that he did not say what you claimed he said either.
You did nothing more than quibble. You say that Biden claimed that a brace "allows you to have a higher caliber bullet," whereas the article said that Biden claimed that a brace increases the caliber of bullet. There is no real difference, and both claims are false.

But you already equivocated:

He said that it allows you to have a higher-caliber bullet - in other words, it makes it possible to shoot a more powerful cartridge controllably.
Having a higher caliber bullet and shooting a more powerful cartridge are not the same thing. This is simple equivocation on your part. Braces don't affect caliber. Continually claiming that they do is to speak falsehoods and to aid Biden in his own falsehoods.
 
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keith99

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Well - let's go line by line and see shall we: The source's claim is in Green and the word for word quote is in purple.

“Put a pistol on a brace, and it…turns into a gun,”
“Put a pistol on a brace, and it…turns into a gun,”

Hmmm.. word for word let's continue

Makes them where you can have a higher-caliber weapon – a higher-caliber bullet – coming out of that gun.
Makes them where you can have a higher-caliber weapon — a higher-caliber bullet coming out of that gun.

Let's see.... uh, yep still word for word.

Last one:


It’s essentially turning it into a short-barreled rifle, which has been a weapon of choice by a number of mass shooters.”
It’s essentially turning it into a short-barreled rifle, which has been a weapon of choice by a number of mass shooters.

Now, I could be wrong, and I am not an English major - but that sure looks like the source is quoting Joe word for word.
And here is what the source you used claimed:

Truth: Biden’s claims that a stabilizing brace turns a pistol into a gun and increases the caliber of a gun or bullet are false. A pistol is, obviously, already a gun, and “a pistol brace does not have any effect on the caliber of ammunition that a gun fires or anything about the basic functioning of the gun itself,”

Yes he
misspoke. But he never even came close to claiming it increased the caliber of the gun. Rather muddled saying that putting a brace on a handgun yielded a higher caliber gun that was akin to a short barreled rifle than would otherwise be readily available.
 
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RocksInMyHead

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You did nothing more than quibble. You say that Biden claimed that a brace "allows you to have a higher caliber bullet," whereas the article said that Biden claimed that a brace increases the caliber of bullet. There is no real difference, and both claims are false.

But you already let on that you know you are not telling the truth:


Having a higher caliber bullet and shooting a more powerful cartridge are not the same thing. This is simple equivocation on your part. Braces don't affect caliber. Let's start telling the truth.
If you're going to resort to personal attacks, I'm out. Have a nice day.
 
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zippy2006

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Pommer

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Biden being inarticulate is not a factual error.
It would seem “he said what he said” only when it’s the “other-side’s guy”.
Which is valid (if vapid) political-thought, (though I think that this time the message is “If you don’t condemn Biden for these utterances, then anything Trump has supposedly said, on tape, can safely be ignored, too, at some future time.”).
I say the Biden supporters should heartily agree with this one!
The measure of a person (and especially Presidents) is, as to whether they’ll stand behind their words right or wrong*
President Trump doesn’t consider he made mistakes that cost him re-election, rather, he contends “they cheated!”; throwing their his own party under the bus, because if Democrats were crafty enough to “steal the election” then why wasn’t the GOP crafty enough to figure this out by now?
Oh yeah “the deep state”, not turning over the information we know is there, (but not because we put it there, no, no, no, because we ‘got-a-guy’ who’s a whistleblower.

It’s like there’s writer’s strike in the universe and they keep rerunning the same shows with new tech and gadgets.


*edge to Trump on this one
 
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zippy2006

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I'm not going to speculate on CNN's intent, but fact checks should be used to point out meaningful factual errors (such as the other errors that this fact check pointed out). Biden being inarticulate is not a factual error.
It should go without saying that the factual errors are in plain sight for anyone who is willing to look, and that they are meaningful, in part, precisely because they shed light on the weaknesses of Biden's mental faculties. Folks can fact check for any reason they like, and the fact checks of the OP are accurate and therefore legitimate, but in reality fact checking is not an end in itself.

(And of course no one claimed that being inarticulate is a factual error.)
 
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hislegacy

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Yes he misspoke. But he never even came close to claiming it increased the caliber of the gun. Rather muddled saying that putting a brace on a handgun yielded a higher caliber gun that was akin to a short barreled rifle than would otherwise be readily available.
His misspoke is the false claim

third and last time- here is his own words:

Makes them where you can have a higher-caliber weapon — a higher-caliber bullet coming out of that gun.
 
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Pommer

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His misspoke is the false claim

third and last time- here is his own words:

Makes them where you can have a higher-caliber weapon — a higher-caliber bullet coming out of that gun.
Perhaps he was misinformed and spread this unfortunate misinformation about?
 
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ThatRobGuy

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Rightly or wrongly, there are too many guns in America.
As true as that may be, there's a lot of problems that are pervasive...Most people would prefer if the person giving the advice is at least somewhat knowledgeable on the subject.

For instance, we've got a massive obesity problem on our hands.

A person could be 100% right in pointing that out, but the people proposing the official solutions to that problem should at least know a little bit about what they're talking about.

A person (who doesn't know anything about guns) throwing out "solutions" ends up with measures that are both inconveniencing, and largely ineffective.

Sort of like when certain officials accurately pointed out the obesity problem, but then followed it up with <sarcasm>Slam Dunk</sarcasm> solutions like "maybe we can make McDonald's take the super size off the menu" or "Let's make stores and restaurants ban large sodas"



In the era of "credentialism", you'd think there'd be more of a rigid standard on that.

Rand Paul got blasted for questioning Fauci because, despite being a doctor, he wasn't "the right kind of doctor". (and there was some merit to that critique, an eye doctor isn't going to have the same level of virology expertise as a virologist). However, on other issues, people don't seem to hold the same standard.
 
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zippy2006

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Sort of like when certain officials accurately pointed out the obesity problem, but then followed it up with <sarcasm>Slam Dunk</sarcasm> solutions like "maybe we can make McDonald's take the super size off the menu" or "Let's make stores and restaurants ban large sodas"
Complicated problems & simplistic solutions.

Ignorant politicians are a big problem (and frankly, Biden is too old for politics). Another problem is that political legislation is rather limited in its ability to address these deep problems, because political coercion is a very limited tool. For example, obesity is more of a cultural problem than a political problem, and to try to address it with new laws is a non-starter.
 
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Pommer

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Complicated problems & simplistic solutions.

Ignorant politicians are a big problem (and frankly, Biden is too old for politics). Another problem is that political legislation is rather limited in its ability to address these deep problems, because political coercion is a very limited tool. For example, obesity is more of a cultural problem than a political problem, and to try to address it with new laws is a non-starter.
As I’ve opined many times here [and elsewhere] politics is difficult.
Politics is especially difficult when we have the legislature conducting investigations into whether active investigations by various Federal agencies are acting outside their normal bounds; in other words the government is fighting with itself.

The very good and rational idea of getting government back to “normal” again must include assumptions that people in Federal Agencies are doing their jobs correctly.
Oversight investigations diminish this notion and while it is a “good thing” that the legislature is “keeping the agencies honest” the norms must be respected with regard to the internal works of these agencies…unless we want the House to meddle in these things?
 
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ThatRobGuy

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As I’ve opined many times here [and elsewhere] politics is difficult.
Politics is especially difficult when we have the legislature conducting investigations into whether active investigations by various Federal agencies are acting outside their normal bounds; in other words the government is fighting with itself.

The very good and rational idea of getting government back to “normal” again must include assumptions that people in Federal Agencies are doing their jobs correctly.
Oversight investigations diminish this notion and while it is a “good thing” that the legislature is “keeping the agencies honest” the norms must be respected with regard to the internal works of these agencies…unless we want the House to meddle in these things?

I think some of the federal agencies have shot themselves in the foot a bit

For the longest time, it was just the progressives getting the poor treatment from the FBI (going back to the FBIs various meddling in trying to undermine civil rights groups and eco groups by planting informants in them and trying to encourage bad behaviors to have a reason to lock someone up).

During those times, they could count on the more staunch conservatives to be their allies and run distraction/deflection on their behalf.

When they started doing that to conservatives recently, they lost their ally.


A variation of the old adage goes "He who wrongs Peter to the benefit of Paul can always count on the support of Paul"

What's gone on with certain federal agencies extends that adage even further...

"When he who was wronging Peter for decades decides to start wronging Paul instead, he shouldn't expect to get a lot of support from either guy"

If we're talking about the FBI here, this is the same organization that saw fit to allow the likes of J Edgar Hoover to run it for nearly half a century.


When the same organization that's doing this:

...is also doing this:


The assumption that the FBI is acting in the best interest of anyone (on either side) would be a flawed assumption.

When they're trying to rile up both BLM activists and far-right militia groups at the same via the use of "inside guys" (who are trying to encourage them to do something so they can entrap them), they shouldn't expect to be trusted.


...and to clarify here, throughout history, progressives have been the targets of the FBI way more than conservatives have. Conservatives have only recently gotten a taste of it. The difference is, when they were doing it to progressives, the conservatives were fine with running interference for them. When they're doing it to conservatives, they can't count on that kind of staunch support from progressives because the FBI has already burned that bridge.
 
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