CNN is running the stupidest article claiming the NT as forgery

[KrimsonDraegon]

Shaeykh, what makes you think I am attacking you personally? I am not and apologise if it seemed that way, i may be over zealous but I make no apologies for defending the truth, which is the Christian faith.

I am sorry if I have come across as a raging bull, lol, please forgive me friend.

Debate is one of the many things which truly seperates us from the animals. Yet, when we descend into personal attacks and insults we, ourselves, descend further than they who simply settle matters with as much respect as it takes to duel one another.

This is all I ask - that debates do not turn into mudslinging contests. I, as well, apologize for any offense, perceived or intentional, that might have slipped past me. It was not what I intended.

There is nothing wrong with zeal, nor is there anything wrong with defending your faith. I was born, raised, and ordained in the Southern Baptist Church, for your information - though I no longer consider myself Reverend <Shaeykh>.

Constructs and conjectures must be analyzed from a multitude of angles, sometimes, to consider their validity. It is not wrong to consider an avenue which might be in vain if it furthers the truth. Dr. Ehrman believes the Gospels written in Greek, others say Aramaic, some even venture to say Hebrew. This does not detract from Jesus' mission and accomplishments here and is not meant to decompose the Christian faith.

In short, don't take our words primarily as an attack on your beliefs - simply view us as observers attempting to test a hypothesis.

For the most part I disagree with many of Dr. Ehrman's ideas, but some of them are genuinely logical and well-founded. Some are actually quite well documented from history, such as a number of letter writers, not necessarily Gospel authors, having been simply a man hired to write a dictaction for someone who was illiterate.

Peace, brother

~ Shaeykh

 

[theWaris1]

There is nothing wrong with zeal, nor is there anything wrong with defending your faith. I was born, raised, and ordained in the Southern Baptist Church, for your information - though I no longer consider myself Reverend


~ Shaeykh

Did you drop the Reverend or drop the preaching?
I heard some preacher saying that calling oneself Reverend was not a good thing. Just saying not judging.

I grew up SoBaptist.
The Peshi-tta is very interesting and as Christ Warrior said there is plenty of evidence for the Peshi-tta being the primacy. There are many Rhymes, wordplays & Idioms found only in the Peshi-tta.

 

[Christ's_Warrior]

Debate is one of the many things which truly seperates us from the animals. Yet, when we descend into personal attacks and insults we, ourselves, descend further than they who simply settle matters with as much respect as it takes to duel one another.

Agreed.

This is all I ask - that debates do not turn into mudslinging contests. I, as well, apologize for any offense, perceived or intentional, that might have slipped past me. It was not what I intended.

Agreed and no offence taken.

There is nothing wrong with zeal, nor is there anything wrong with defending your faith. I was born, raised, and ordained in the Southern Baptist Church, for your information - though I no longer consider myself Reverend <Shaeykh>.

Not sure what you're referring to here, were you a pastor?

Constructs and conjectures must be analyzed from a multitude of angles, sometimes, to consider their validity. It is not wrong to consider an avenue which might be in vain if it furthers the truth. Dr. Ehrman believes the Gospels written in Greek, others say Aramaic, some even venture to say Hebrew. This does not detract from Jesus' mission and accomplishments here and is not meant to decompose the Christian faith.

Conjecture though is dangerous especially considering the context in which we now consider. Bart makes sensational claims to shock those readers who know precious little about Christian theology and history, this is considered to be academic dishonesty.

If eternal judgement is indeed true, then I consider Bart to be a mass murderer for misleading millions of potential Christians into the abyss. "It would be better for a millstone to be hung around his neck" is a verse that springs to mind. There are many reasons why a laymen could refute Barts claims and one need only utilise common sense to see through his many assumptions.

Consider also, that not one theological premise or foundational truth is removed or even remotely affected by Barts claims.

In short, don't take our words primarily as an attack on your beliefs - simply view us as observers attempting to test a hypothesis.

For the most part I disagree with many of Dr. Ehrman's ideas, but some of them are genuinely logical and well-founded. Some are actually quite well documented from history, such as a number of letter writers, not necessarily Gospel authors, having been simply a man hired to write a dictaction for someone who was illiterate.

I am glad that you have the intuition to see through his claims, you will also notice that we never disagreed with the fact that some of the epistle writers may have used scribes. What we disagree with is that these writings were written independently and without the knowledge of the author, to aver this assumption is not based on historical fact but on mere say so stories. Conspiracists are usually considered whaky, but attack the Bible and you are instantly noted and recognised as a scholar held in high esteem.

 

[SoldierOfSoul]

The bible has more documented evidence for its validity than any other ancient work.

 

[Christ's_Warrior]

Amen Soldier, but because it is truth satan will try to lead people away from it by any means possible.

 

[KrimsonDraegon]

Did you drop the Reverend or drop the preaching?
I heard some preacher saying that calling oneself Reverend was not a good thing. Just saying not judging.

I grew up SoBaptist.
The Peshi-tta is very interesting and as Christ Warrior said there is plenty of evidence for the Peshi-tta being the primacy. There are many Rhymes, wordplays & Idioms found only in the Peshi-tta.

I was never a "Preacher", but I did drop both. I have too much respect for the office to refer to myself as a member of the clergy if I am not going to practice. However, I am an ordained Reverend in the Christian Church and will not tolerate people assuming I am an unlearned or uninformed critic of Christianity.

Agreed.



Agreed and no offence taken.



Not sure what you're referring to here, were you a pastor?



Conjecture though is dangerous especially considering the context in which we now consider. Bart makes sensational claims to shock those readers who know precious little about Christian theology and history, this is considered to be academic dishonesty.

If eternal judgement is indeed true, then I consider Bart to be a mass murderer for misleading millions of potential Christians into the abyss. "It would be better for a millstone to be hung around his neck" is a verse that springs to mind. There are many reasons why a laymen could refute Barts claims and one need only utilise common sense to see through his many assumptions.

Consider also, that not one theological premise or foundational truth is removed or even remotely affected by Barts claims.



I am glad that you have the intuition to see through his claims, you will also notice that we never disagreed with the fact that some of the epistle writers may have used scribes. What we disagree with is that these writings were written independently and without the knowledge of the author, to aver this assumption is not based on historical fact but on mere say so stories. Conspiracists are usually considered whaky, but attack the Bible and you are instantly noted and recognised as a scholar held in high esteem.

I understand that we are in agreement concerning the epistle writers. However, I do stand by my understanding of isolated mistranslations and even independent writings.

We are in total and perfect agreement on the fact that none of Dr. Ehrman's claims affect the validity of the basic Christian faith.

The bible has more documented evidence for its validity than any other ancient work.

The Bible is equally controversial, or half the debates on these boards wouldn't be here.

~ Shaeykh

 

[Vico]

This has been happening for century now, nothing new. The bible has stood its test of time and attacks, and still passes easily. The words of Jesus win my trust.

 

[seashale76]

Speculation, at best. Where's the proof? Where's the sources to prove the allegations? It's amazing that this is what passes for scholarship these days. It is just fluff to feed people who have already decided that this is exactly what they want to hear.

 

[kiwimac]

Has anyone here actually read Forged?

 

[seashale76]

Has anyone here actually read Forged?

I think it's safe to say that the majority of people out there who believe what this guy says as the gospel truth haven't read it either. If he had any relevant sources, we would have heard about it a gazillion years ago.

 

[Christ's_Warrior]

Kiwi, have not and will not. I have read passages from his past books and there was no validity in his claims then, what hdo you believe has changed?

Again, he knows how to make money via sensationalism and pure speculative assumptions, like seashale stated earlier "fluff to feed the unbelievers".

 

[Vico]

Good short video from John piper.
John Piper: "How Important is the Bible?" - Lausanne 2010 on Vimeo

 

[kiwimac]

Kiwi, have not and will not. I have read passages from his past books and there was no validity in his claims then, what hdo you believe has changed?

Again, he knows how to make money via sensationalism and pure speculative assumptions, like seashale stated earlier "fluff to feed the unbelievers".

You have read 'passages', you can make a book / author say anything by just reading 'passages.' Either read the book and actually engage with what he says or admit that you are responding to what OTHER people say that he says.