I read the thread and the report. It doesn't look like dividing issues warrant exclusion from altar fellowship. But, I'm one for open communion of all baptized Christians who believe in the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist.
As am I, which is one reason I stick with the ELCA.I read the thread and the report. It doesn't look like dividing issues warrant exclusion from altar fellowship. But, I'm one for open communion of all baptized Christians who believe in the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist.
Correct. There are some groups that get put with others that are not quite right, but we do the best we can to sort it out.In these Christian Forums, Old Catholics are grouped with Anglicans and I think this is most appropriate. So, at least for now, this is what the ACC is.
Membership of all liberal Lutheran churches is almost double that of conservative Lutheran churches in North America. How do you explain this? BTW, I think average Sunday attendance would be a better indicator than membership. Are there statistics for this?As am I, which is one reason I stick with the ELCA.
It's explained mostly by history and mergers. The ELCA is a combination of several Lutheran denominations that merged in the 1980's into a new and much larger organization. The two largest were the American Lutheran Church and the Lutheran Church in America. The ALC had about 2 million members and the LCA had nearly 3 million. The much smaller AELC had about 100,000 and was interesting a church that split from the LCMS in the late 1970s.Membership of all liberal Lutheran churches is almost double that of conservative Lutheran churches in North America. How do you explain this?
BTW, I think average Sunday attendance would be a better indicator than membership.
Are there statistics for this?
I read the thread and the report. It doesn't look like dividing issues warrant exclusion from altar fellowship. But, I'm one for open communion of all baptized Christians who believe in the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist.
I think this kind of split couldn't happen with Anglican churches bec the denomination owns the buildings.It is not really explained by their more liberal stance on most social matters as some of these decisions shrunk the ELCA quite significantly. The most extreme example was the 2009 decision on sexuality where the ELCA lost over 700 congregations and close to 500,000 members.
According to Wikipedia, ELCA has 9,163 congregations. If this is true and with average attendance of 132, the total would be 1,209,516. The data is missing but it is conceivable that LCMS may have higher Sunday attendance.The ELCA publishes statistics for each church, synod, and church wide. In my synod the average attendance is 132, which is a 5 person drop from 2016...which is only a 3.6% drop - which is not really bad compared to other areas, but still something that needs reversing. I am not sure if the LCMS/WELS/ELS publish these stats too.
You're more conservative than me. I would probably not participate if the pastor was a practicing homosexual but would accept communion in the 2 cases you mentioned above.I personally wouldn't accept communion in a church that endorses same-sex marriage or other issues related to that. I also don't think I could accept it from a woman who has consecrated the elements
Except it did happen in the Episcopal Church - and it was very messy and I believe still ongoing because of the church ownership you mentioned.I think this kind of split couldn't happen with Anglican churches bec the denomination owns the buildings.
According to Wikipedia, ELCA has 9,163 congregations. If this is true and with average attendance of 132, the total would be 1,209,516. The data is missing but it is conceivable that LCMS may have higher Sunday attendance.
Taking into account visitors, average member' attendance is like 1/4 (once-a-month). This is not encouraging, especially with the continuous drop in membership and attendance.Average Sunday attendance in 2015 was 973,809. I don't see a more recent stat, but it is probably down from then. 2015's membership was 3,668,034. This does not take into account visitors.
That is how it divides down, but more likely that there are consistent members that attend weekly and then there are far more people on the membership rolls that only attend intermittently or only on major holidays.Taking into account visitors, average member' attendance is like 1/4 (once-a-month).
This is not encouraging, especially with the continuous drop in membership and attendance.
Yes, I understand that.That is how it divides down, but more likely that there are consistent members that attend weekly and then there are far more people on the membership rolls that only attend intermittently or only on major holidays.
Frankly, I consider closed communion a grave sin that was practiced by the Roman Catholics and Eastern Orthodox.I'm a Vicar at an LCMS parish that takes a strong stand on closed communion.
It's explained mostly by history and mergers. The ELCA is a combination of several Lutheran denominations that merged in the 1980's into a new and much larger organization. The two largest were the American Lutheran Church and the Lutheran Church in America. The ALC had about 2 million members and the LCA had nearly 3 million. The much smaller AELC had about 100,000 and was interesting a church that split from the LCMS in the late 1970s
There is some variation between LCC and the LCMSS:Edit: if you are in Canada your options might be more limited. The Canadian version of the LCMS is the Lutheran Church - Canada (LCC) and they technically are almost identical to the LCMS in communion if I am correct. Outside of the LCC I am not really familiar with Canadian Lutheran churches other than the ELCIC (Evangelical Lutheran Church in Canada), which is not considered "conservative".
This website doesn't describe the variation between LCC and LCMS.There is some variation between LCC and the LCMSS: Partner Churches
The reason it does not is we are in full fellowship with the LCMS. We are in fellowship with some of the same Synods as the LCMS, and some different Synods than the LCMS. Why? Because both Churches sought to explore and formalize fellowship agreements with the particular Synods, and they with us. You may ask why all of these Synods don't just reciprocate with each other when it comes to fellowship; but it remains that each of these Churches is autonomous, and therefore do what is best for their Church. Often these agreements stem from one Synod assisting another synod by providing aid through Church workers; seminary training for their Clergy etc. Some of these Synods started as missions supported by another synod, and grew and became autonomous Churches; in those cases, fellowship is pretty much a given.This website doesn't describe the variation between LCC and LCMS.
I get the impression that LCC is a closed club providing pastoral care for its members and is unwelcoming to other Christians.We are in fellowship with some of the same Synods as the LCMS, and some different Synods than the LCMS. Why? Because both Churches sought to explore and formalize fellowship agreements with the particular Synods, and they with us. You may ask why all of these Synods don't just reciprocate with each other when it comes to fellowship; but it remains that each of these Churches is autonomous, and therefore do what is best for their Church.
Your lack of charity shown by calling us a "club" and "unwelcoming" is clearly an attempt to offend and antagonize; Anglicans are usually much kinder that that.I get the impression that LCC is is a closed club providing pastoral care for its members and is unwelcoming to other Christians.
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