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Cloning?

TooCurious

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Stuco said:
Well no. Like I said in my first post Im all for the medical part of cloning as long as it is supervised strictly so that no one trys some of the stuff I just suggested. Because then the medical benifit will be useless if we are ran by a clone militia dictatorship. As long as we are not makeing superhuman soldiers pumping out manchurian candidates or doing anything like they did in the movie "The Island" then I am cool with it. This is just something that carefully needs to be thoughtout and take everything in to consideration. America got lucky once lets not try our luck a second time. It could be safer.

Are you saying that cloning, of both organs and full humans, is okay as long as no one attempts to use it for anything blatantly immoral? I would agree that only immoral uses of human cloning, such as we saw in "The Island," shoulf be outlawed.
 
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Stuco

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TooCurious said:
Are you saying that cloning, of both organs and full humans, is okay as long as no one attempts to use it for anything blatantly immoral? I would agree that only immoral uses of human cloning, such as we saw in "The Island," shoulf be outlawed.

Yes cloneing of organs is ok with me but cloning of full humans is ok only to an extent with me. Only if it is not geneticly enhanced in any way(save for medical purposes) then it is ok. Although I really dont see why anybody would want an exact clone of themselves. I know I wouldnt want a clone of myself I barely get along with myself as it is Also it should be strictly supervised.
 
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Adriac

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TooCurious said:
Are you saying that cloning, of both organs and full humans, is okay as long as no one attempts to use it for anything blatantly immoral? I would agree that only immoral uses of human cloning, such as we saw in "The Island," shoulf be outlawed.

You know, that raises an interesting side point... If the law stipulated (as seems likely, and contrary to nearly every sci-fi vision ever) that clones be considered, in every way, the equal of "normal" people, and that they cannot be required to compensate their creators in any way for their creation (as they had no choice in the matter)...

Seems you'd see very little large-scale cloning. There'd be no profit to it.
 
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TooCurious

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Stuco said:
Yes cloneing of organs is ok with me but cloning of full humans is ok only to an extent with me. Only if it is not geneticly enhanced in any way(save for medical purposes) then it is ok. Although I really dont see why anybody would want an exact clone of themselves. I know I wouldnt want a clone of myself I barely get along with myself as it is Also it should be strictly supervised.

So you're okay with cloning, but not with genetic engineering. Sounds good to me. :thumbsup:

One possible reason for human cloning is if someone wanted to reproduce via in vitro fertilization, but didn't want to use some stranger's sperm to make her child.
 
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OdwinOddball

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Stuco said:
Ok this may come across as ubsurd to some but bear with me.

Im guessing that at least half or more of you have seen the new star wars films. From just that I beat you can guess what I am geting at. Keep in mind that a lot things that use to be science fiction are now science fact. If we started cloneing humanbeings then there will be people who want to make them stronger smarter and faster than a normal humanbeing. They might also want ot control them. This would lead to armys of super soldiers being built by countrys and people you would not want to have this capabilty. Some of this we can already do and it wouldnt take long for someone with enough brains time and money to come up with the rest of the tech requiered for it. Some of you may have played Hitman. Personally I would like for Agent 47 to stay in his world and not come to mine. Cloneing organs would be ok but must be watched and monitered very very closely. If anyone tries perfecting this type of human cloning they should be treated with the utmost hostilaty and taken out by anymeans nessecery.

You cover several fields in this and your subsequent posts.

Cloning is a very narrow field. It is taking the genetic information of a living creature and using this as the genetic information in a new creature.

Thats it, period, end of story.

Genetic Engineering has nothing to do with cloning other than genetic engineering is what allows cloning to be possible. Genetic engineering allows us to take DNA from an organism and change it, either by adding DNA from another organism, or editing and recombining the organisms existing DNA. This is the field that will one day allow you to customize your body to be resistant to all disease, be stronger, more intelligent, etc.

Then you want to add accelerated growth into the mix. This is something which is barely(if at all) hypothetical at this point. Currently developing an organism takes the exact same time as nature does, so for a human, 9 months of gestation, and then whatever age you want.

You are taking multiple different fields and lumping them all together because thats what Hollywood has told you. Stop getting your science knowledge from Hollywood, and try asking an actual scientist or reading a book written by a scientist.


We currently do everything involved in cloning every time a couple heads to a fertility clinic and has in vitro fertilization done. The only difference between that and cloning is that instead of genetic material from two people, you just use material from one.


Perhaps an example will help dispel these myths.

So, I decide I am unhappy in my current line of work, and figure I best get my resume in order.

So, I sit down at my computer, load up a standard resume template(existing organisms genetic information), add in my specific details(genetic engineering-mixing information from two sources), and then I have my resume.

I send this off to one company, but I also need to send it too a second. So I can either go back to the beginning and load the template and fill in all my information(current methods of making multiple organisms, from scratch each time), or I can simply send a copy of the resume I just wrote(cloning).


Cloning doesn't change anything, it doesn't add some new level of potential evil to genetic engineering. All it does is allow you to make copies of an organism without having to build it from scratch each time.
 
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Mayflower1

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Cloning doesn't change anything, it doesn't add some new level of potential evil to genetic engineering. All it does is allow you to make copies of an organism without having to build it from scratch each time. [quote/] Pretty cool concept. :) The clone is just as evil as the other!!! :)
 
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Adriac

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You know, I have to wonder at the opposition to genetic engineering. Seems to me there's a very tangible religious component to it: namely, if we can make all of our children live longer, be stronger, have more-than-perfect eyesight, et cetera et cetera et cetera... Why weren't we created that way in the first place?
 
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Adriac said:
You know, I have to wonder at the opposition to genetic engineering. Seems to me there's a very tangible religious component to it: namely, if we can make all of our children live longer, be stronger, have more-than-perfect eyesight, et cetera et cetera et cetera... Why weren't we created that way in the first place?
Why weren't we created better? Why were we created at all? I mean effectively God has Angels who are meant to be something along the lines of perfect. If there isn't an explination in scripture, then there isn't a point in putting words in God's mouth.

Also correct me if I am wrong, but genetic flaws can be 'stamped out' via breeding. I mean in Australia a century ago, black skin was thought to be a flaw, and they tried to 'stamp it out' through breeding.

So maybe the question is, why haven't we chosen to have better eyesight, health etc? Lack of knowledge? I know people today who have major genetic flaws but they still want children.

PS: I know this is off the topic of cloning.
 
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Trigger

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kopilo said:
See posts number 46 and 49. :)

Post 46: That is carrying it farther than I would go. I mean deficiencies like being allergic to water. That's just harsh.

Post 49: Well...technically, it's our fault that our children have these deficiencies anyway. Like you said, people have genetic weaknesses like poor eyesight or predisposition to drunkenness and here we are just continuing our legacy. Personally I think these, similar to STDs, are the "fruits" of our ancestors' sinful tendencies so far as lust and sexual immoralities are concerned, in addition to plain carelessness. Wouldn't it make sense to try to make amends to our children for the sins of our fathers?
 
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Trigger said:
Post 46: That is carrying it farther than I would go. I mean deficiencies like being allergic to water. That's just harsh.
Strangly enough I've technically been allergic to water, because of having a fear of water due to an early childhood experience. So I can verify what you have said, yes it is not fun.

Post 49: Well...technically, it's our fault that our children have these deficiencies anyway. Like you said, people have genetic weaknesses like poor eyesight or predisposition to drunkenness and here we are just continuing our legacy. Personally I think these, similar to STDs, are the "fruits" of our ancestors' sinful tendencies so far as lust and sexual immoralities are concerned, in addition to plain carelessness. Wouldn't it make sense to try to make amends to our children for the sins of our fathers?
Of course, but doesn't it make sense to do it in a way, so that history doesn't have a chance of repeating.

I know it sounds callist, but maybe preventing people with genetic conditions which have a high chance of being inherited in their children, from having children.
 
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Trigger

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Yes, but if God has planned for certain individuals to marry and have a family, then by not letting them do so we not only hinder God's will, we hinder that couple from experiencing a whole new dimension of life just because we don't want another child with birth defects in our society.

I think that birth defects were not part of God's original plan for the family, so I have no moral conflictions about eliminating them. I know my children will hate wearing glasses just as much as I do, why not skip a step and correct their vision in the womb? We already have laser surgery for permanent vision correction, why not save some time and effort and use genetics to do the same thing?

Yes, God teaches us through our weakness and through the weakness of our children, but I doubt that by restoring our children's bodies we will be restricting or impeding God's will in any way.
 
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Trigger said:
Yes, but if God has planned for certain individuals to marry and have a family, then by not letting them do so we not only hinder God's will, we hinder that couple from experiencing a whole new dimension of life just because we don't want another child with birth defects in our society.

I think that birth defects were not part of God's original plan for the family, so I have no moral conflictions about eliminating them. I know my children will hate wearing glasses just as much as I do, why not skip a step and correct their vision in the womb? We already have laser surgery for permanent vision correction, why not save some time and effort and use genetics to do the same thing?

Yes, God teaches us through our weakness and through the weakness of our children, but I doubt that by restoring our children's bodies we will be restricting or impeding God's will in any way.
I don't believe humans can control God or God's will, so I guess that is how our view points seperate.
 
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Caylin

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Trigger said:
Control isn't what I'm talking about. I mean being a roadblock to what God wants to accomplish. Doesn't mean he won't plow through us, but...

Even the Bible talks about men dying before their time. How so if we cannot be a hindrance to God's will?

If God's will is such a concern, then why do we have medicne at all?
 
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