Many atheists say that what we call "morality" is genetically coded in humans. If that's true, we should, given further information and technology, be able to tweak our coding. Atheists I've talked to usually agree that coding for moral behavior is "good", because survival is good. So if and when human genetics are so thoroughly understood that we can engineer good humans, should we do so? Should we make future humans good, or is freedom a higher good?
-
Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
-
CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
Clockwork Oranges
- Thread starter Chesterton
- Start date
Drathnor
University physics student
Personaly i belive that morality is just a logical step from our intelegence, no one wants people killing stealing from or raping other people despite their religion, though this is affected by what someone classifies as a person.( i.e islam rates male followers of islam at the highest, and female infidels at the lowest.)
Trying to affect human morrality at a genetic level would be a bad idea imo, as being "good" will never enable a county to survive in this moddern world.
Trying to affect human morrality at a genetic level would be a bad idea imo, as being "good" will never enable a county to survive in this moddern world.
Upvote
0
- Jun 18, 2006
- 3,856,435
- 52,724
- Country
- United States
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Baptist
- Marital Status
- Married
- Politics
- US-Republican
That's because atheists don't believe in the original definition of 'morality' -- i.e., the relationship between man and God.
'Ethics' would be more in line with what atheists talk about; but it seems they can't avoid adopting* religious terminology at times.
Romans 10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
* We actually call that diabolical plagiarism.
Upvote
0
SithDoughnut
The Agnostic, Ignostic, Apatheistic Atheist
'Morality' is not a religious term. It doesn't even appear in the KJV, nor does 'morals'.
Upvote
0
Is it moral to murder your daughter if in fact she is found not to be a virgin on her wedding night?
A simple "yes" or "no" will suffice.
Upvote
0
Morality: the description and rationale of how one ought to behave.
Ethics: the study of morality.
Ethics: the study of morality.
Upvote
0
- Jun 18, 2006
- 3,856,435
- 52,724
- Country
- United States
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Baptist
- Marital Status
- Married
- Politics
- US-Republican
Upvote
0
Deuteronomy 22:21 Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die: because she hath wrought folly in Israel, to play the harlot in her father's house: so shalt thou put evil away from among you.
Upvote
0
- Jun 18, 2006
- 3,856,435
- 52,724
- Country
- United States
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Baptist
- Marital Status
- Married
- Politics
- US-Republican
You said YES or NO -- so I answered NO.
Prostitution carried the death penalty.
In addition, you gave an example of man's responsibility to God.
God said it -- that settles it.
Furthermore, you used the word 'murder' -- which, when I saw it, knew my answer was going to automatically be "no".
Upvote
0
- Jun 18, 2006
- 3,856,435
- 52,724
- Country
- United States
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Baptist
- Marital Status
- Married
- Politics
- US-Republican
Fair enough -- we Christians are called to a Higher Standard anyway; aren't we Kate?
It's called "righteousness" -- which means, 'right with God'.
Upvote
0
Don't hold your breath. Interesting comments from Venter here
SPIEGEL Interview with Craig Venter: 'We Have Learned Nothing from the Genome' - SPIEGEL ONLINE - News - International
Some snippets:
SPIEGEL: So the significance of the genome isn't so great after all?
Venter: Not at all. I can tell you from my own experience. I put my own genome on the Internet. People had the notion this was the scariest thing out there. But what happened? Nothing.
SPIEGEL: Why is it taking so long for the results of genome research to be applied in medicine?
Venter: Because we have, in truth, learned nothing from the genome other than probabilities. How does a 1 or 3 percent increased risk for something translate into the clinic? It is useless information.
SPIEGEL: It took eight years from the time the first bacterial genome was decoded until the human genome was completed. How much time will elapse between the creation of the first synthetic bacteria and the creation of the first synthetic human?
Venter: There is currently no reason for us to synthesize human cells. I am, for example, a fan of the work that was done a short time ago that led to the decoding of the Neanderthal genome. But we don't need any more Neanderthals on the planet, right? We already have enough of them
Upvote
0
T
The Lady Kate
Guest
Righteousness and morality are two different things, yes. Tell me, AV1611VET... do you consider yourself to be living up to that "higher standard"?
Upvote
0
- Jun 18, 2006
- 3,856,435
- 52,724
- Country
- United States
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Baptist
- Marital Status
- Married
- Politics
- US-Republican
No -- but Christ does it for me.
2 Corinthians 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
And I thank Him for that each day!
Upvote
0
T
The Lady Kate
Guest
No -- but Christ does it for me.
2 Corinthians 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
And I thank Him for that each day!
So, it's not really us being held to any standard... higher or otherwise, is it?
Upvote
0
[snip]
Okay, well just consider the OP as a purely hypothetical question then. If we could make people good, should we? I think only one person has addressed the question so far.
Upvote
0
sfs
Senior Member
- Jun 30, 2003
- 10,868
- 7,884
- 66
- Country
- United States
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Non-Denom
- Marital Status
- Married
I wouldn't hold my breath either, when it comes to the original question, but I also have to say that Venter's comments here are about as stupid as anything I've seen written about the human genome. The sequence of the genome, and the subsequent developments it permitted (sequencing of hundreds of other genomes, detection of millions of genetic variants, the discovery of hundreds of genetic variants that increase or decrease the risk of disease), have radically changed the way biology and biomedical research are done, and immensely increased the productivity of researchers. We have learned a great deal about evolutionary relationships, about natural selection, about human demographic history, about the molecular pathways involved in disease, and about basic biology, all of which would have been impossible without the genome sequence -- and we've only started to scratch the surface.
Of course, if Venter really sequenced the genome in order to predict who was going to get sick, then I'm not surprised that he's disappointed. I am surprised that someone as intelligent as Venter would have such a stupid expectation, however. The time-scale for medical benefits from the genome was never going to be ten years. When the draft sequence was in the news ten years ago, I remember one of the leaders of the project (and my lab director), Eric Lander, putting it this way: "We're doing this now, so that my grandchildren won't have to worry about dying of cancer." I thought then that he was being optimistic, but results have been coming faster than I expected.
Upvote
0
They do? Do you have any examples because I don't know of anyone off the top of my head who thinks morality is encoded. Certain of our default behaviors are encoded but many times our morality stands in stark contrast to what we have encoded.
As far as engineering "Good" humans I have recently become a proponent of genetic experimentation. I can think of no better way to ensure our future as a species then directing the destiny of our own physical form.
Upvote
0
Pretty much every atheist who believes in the TOE that I've talked to about it here on CF has said this to me. Dawkins and other prominent scientists have written about it. I'm surprised you haven't heard this.
If our morality can stand in stark contrast to what we have encoded, then how can we say our morality is encoded?
Upvote
0
That there is a distinction in your mind regarding this is reason alone to keep religious zealots (i.e. Palin, et. al.) out of politics. You claim that christians are held to a "higher standard," however, in this case, "secular" law is the higher standard here. It is exactly this kind of myopic, religious piety that empowered people to fly planes into buildings.
As an American, you probably would never commit an act of such evil, but the fact that you "understand where they're coming from," and maybe even secretly agree, is morally reprehensible.
Upvote
0
Similar threads
