Climate Change

[alien444]

I am very concerned about the multitude of environmental and socioeconomic problems that we are in store for over the next century due to climate change. I am afraid that the majority of Christians see this issue as biblical, therefore believing that there is nothing we can do to intervene, it is not man-made, and that it is part of God's plan. I fear that this way of seeing this issue is going to be a major obstacle in convincing those in power to work toward sustainability. Does anyone agree? Disagree?

 

[Lukaris]

I believe you will find opinions from Christians all over the page on this just like anywhere else.

 

[graceandpeace]

^I agree, Christians are all over the map on this one.

Personally, like many other Christians, I do think we should seek to be responsible in how we handle resources & strive to care about humanity's impact on earth, etc in practical ways.

 

[alien444]

^I agree, Christians are all over the map on this one.

Personally, like many other Christians, I do think we should seek to be responsible in how we handle resources & strive to care about humanity's impact on earth, etc in practical ways.

With all do respect to those who posted, I am always frustrated when I am told that there is an equal amount of variety among Christians and the secular on certain issues. There is a infamous moment from a 2010 Republican Primary in which the moderator asked the candidates if anyone
believed climate change was man made and not one hand was raised. There was a similar situation involving belief in evolution. What's frustrating is that many Republican politicians likely believe in man-made climate change but pander to a Christian base whose majority beliefs are well researched. A national Democrat or liberal politician who denied either man-made climate change or evolution would not have a chance but conservatives mostly deny or evade because they know that their base overwhelmingly denies man-made climate change and their base is overwhelmingly Christian. This frankly causes me to be very pessimistic about our chances of dealing responsibly with climate change.

 

[Lukaris]

Most Christians are not American & China, excluded from the Kyoto treaty on emissions, and a major polluter, persecutes Christians ( & other groups). Personally I try to live my faith aside from politics although it will often affect my disposition. I have little faith in any political group towards the environment & not many "environmental " groups. Groups like the Nature Conservancy, that actually do something aside from politics, are worth supporting.

 

[graceandpeace]

With all do respect to those who posted, I am always frustrated when I am told that there is an equal amount of variety among Christians and the secular on certain issues. There is a infamous moment from a 2010 Republican Primary in which the moderator asked the candidates if anyone
believed climate change was man made and not one hand was raised. There was a similar situation involving belief in evolution. What's frustrating is that many Republican politicians likely believe in man-made climate change but pander to a Christian base whose majority beliefs are well researched. A national Democrat or liberal politician who denied either man-made climate change or evolution would not have a chance but conservatives mostly deny or evade because they know that their base overwhelmingly denies man-made climate change and their base is overwhelmingly Christian. This frankly causes me to be very pessimistic about our chances of dealing responsibly with climate change.

Republicans have a tendency to pander to evangelical, white, conservative Protestant Christians, because this group usually turns out to vote, especially on "moral" issues; however, many Christians do not fit into such a category - or vote Republican.

Speaking for myself, I do try to be informed on issues before casting my vote during an election, & I will occasionally voice my opinions to my representatives, but I try to avoid emotionally charged political debates & rhetoric.

Again, Christians truly are of different opinions on this topic. For example, if you are interested, here is a link from the church I attend:

Eco-Justice | Episcopal Church

 

[alien444]

Republicans have a tendency to pander to evangelical, white, conservative Protestant Christians, because this group usually turns out to vote, especially on "moral" issues; however, many Christians do not fit into such a category - or vote Republican.

Speaking for myself, I do try to be informed on issues before casting my vote during an election, & I will occasionally voice my opinions to my representatives, but I try to avoid emotionally charged political debates & rhetoric.

Again, Christians truly are of different opinions on this topic. For example, if you are interested, here is a link from the church I attend:

Eco-Justice | Episcopal Church

Perhaps I am ignoring the variety of Christian views and focusing on Evangelical opinion (which is usually the loudest).

 

[ebia]

Perhaps I am ignoring the variety of Christian views and focusing on Evangelical opinion (which is usually the loudest).

Specifically American Evangelical opinion.

 

[KWCrazy]

Change is what climates do.
Alarmism is a tactic liberals use to convince people to cede their liberty to the federal government. It works pretty well with some people who seriously think endangering the lives of their family in unsafe vehicles somehow is saving the planet.

There is no saving this planet. It's doomed. It will probably not last another century; not because of man's actions, but because the son of God is returning and this world will pass away.

One volcanic eruption puts out more pollution than mankind has in his history. I'm sorry to make you feel insignificant, but nothing you do will have even the slightest impact on the climate. It follows phases of the sun, not the idiotic predictions of Al Gore.

Remember the coming ice age of the 60's? The Silent Spring? The population bomb? Every few years "science" comes up with another impending tragedy to frighten people into funding their research. The gullible always fall for it.

 

[ebia]

Change is what climates do. Alarmism is a tactic liberals use to convince people to cede their liberty to the federal government. It works pretty well with some people who seriously think endangering the lives of their family in unsafe vehicles somehow is saving the planet. There is no saving this planet. It's doomed. It will probably not last another century; not because of man's actions, but because the son of God is returning and this world will pass away. One volcanic eruption puts out more pollution than mankind has in his history. I'm sorry to make you feel insignificant, but nothing you do will have even the slightest impact on the climate. It follows phases of the sun, not the idiotic predictions of Al Gore. Remember the coming ice age of the 60's? The Silent Spring? The population bomb? Every few years "science" comes up with another impending tragedy to frighten people into funding their research. The gullible always fall for it.

The Christian expectation is for God to fix his good creation, not abandon it as a mistake.
And the Christian calling is to live in anticipation of that, not to collaborate with what is messing things up.

"The physical world doesn't matter - we are escaping that" is the gnostic heresy, not authentic Christianity.

 

[KWCrazy]

The Christian expectation is for God to fix his good creation, not abandon it as a mistake.

Mathew 24:35 "Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away."

This earth wasn't a mistake, it's a proving ground to see who is worthy to enter the kingdom of Heaven.

And the Christian calling is to live in anticipation of that, not to collaborate with what is messing things up.

We have no control over our climate. We can't even predict the weather correctly much of the time.

 

[ebia]

Mathew 24:35 "Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away."

Out of context quote ignoring the whole christian story.

This earth wasn't a mistake, it's a proving ground to see who is worthy to enter the kingdom of Heaven.

Gnostism.

We have no control over our climate. We can't even predict the weather correctly much of the time.

"We can't predict" and "we can't effect" are not the same thing. And neither are climate and weather.

 

[ViaCrucis]

The Christian expectation is for God to fix his good creation, not abandon it as a mistake.
And the Christian calling is to live in anticipation of that, not to collaborate with what is messing things up.

"The physical world doesn't matter - we are escaping that" is the gnostic heresy, not authentic Christianity.

Bingo.

The whole point of redemption, salvation, and resurrection is God's restoration and renewing of the whole cosmos. Why bother with fixing the problem of death if death isn't really a problem but just a doorway to life as as a ghost floating around strumming harps in some nebulous gilded hereafter?

-CryptoLutheran

 

[alien444]

Change is what climates do.
Alarmism is a tactic liberals use to convince people to cede their liberty to the federal government. It works pretty well with some people who seriously think endangering the lives of their family in unsafe vehicles somehow is saving the planet.

There is no saving this planet. It's doomed. It will probably not last another century; not because of man's actions, but because the son of God is returning and this world will pass away.

One volcanic eruption puts out more pollution than mankind has in his history. I'm sorry to make you feel insignificant, but nothing you do will have even the slightest impact on the climate. It follows phases of the sun, not the idiotic predictions of Al Gore.

Remember the coming ice age of the 60's? The Silent Spring? The population bomb? Every few years "science" comes up with another impending tragedy to frighten people into funding their research. The gullible always fall for it.

Uhhh yeah, this is what I was referring to in the OP.

 

[KWCrazy]

Man caused global warming is a proven fraud. The planet is, in fact, cooling, which is what it does after periods of warming. Try looking at a little history. "climate change" pre-dates not only the industrial revolution but the discovery of the "new world" as well.

 

[alien444]

Man caused global warming is a proven fraud. The planet is, in fact, cooling, which is what it does after periods of warming. Try looking at a little history. "climate change" pre-dates not only the industrial revolution but the discovery of the "new world" as well.

Three comments and one question:

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]1)The earth's temperature is neither liberal nor conservative.
2)Do you seriously believe that 97% of the world's scientists are perpetrating the largest and most complicated conspiracy the world has ever known?
3)Climate deniers always accuse others of being gullible when they are being fooled by the most unreliable sources on the internet.
4)Your opinion has been duly noted, evaluated, analyzed, carefully considered and soundly rejected.

You do have a good sense of humor though.

[/FONT]

 

[dcalling]

Three comments and one question:

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]1)The earth's temperature is neither liberal nor conservative.
2)Do you seriously believe that 97% of the world's scientists are perpetrating the largest and most complicated conspiracy the world has ever known?
3)Climate deniers always accuse others of being gullible when they are being fooled by the most unreliable sources on the internet.
4)Your opinion has been duly noted, evaluated, analyzed, carefully considered and soundly rejected.

You do have a good sense of humor though.

[/FONT]

I agree with your first, but disagree on 2 and 4.

I was a strong believer of global warming, but the evidences made me more and more unsure of that, especially after the CRU scandal, it seems more about money then others.

Science is never about majorities, it is about truth. The current blame of CO2 on global warming are pushing us onto something much more dangers, i.e. the mercury filled lights replaced older incandescent lights, some guys suggest capture the CO2 in air and store them in cans..... There are way too many unanswered questions, and most of the global warming predictions failed so far (hocky stick anyone?).

We should be responsible to our own environment, but for me, we should focus more on not let industries pollute us with heavy metals, water sources, nuclear waste, which are very hard to reverse, and less on CO2. It is much easier to get a global cooling than warming, as the big volcano erupt in the 1800s put the earth into a small ice age with all that CO2.

 

[alien444]

I agree with your first, but disagree on 2 and 4.

I was a strong believer of global warming, but the evidences made me more and more unsure of that, especially after the CRU scandal, it seems more about money then others.

This "scandal" was greatly exaggerated and taken out of context. Besides even if it did show unscrupulous behavior among a minority of climate scientists (which it didn't) that does not change the science and the facts.

Science is never about majorities, it is about truth.

I disagree. In science majority does equal truth. One person or a group proposes a hypothesis, tests it, publishes the results, and based on the hundreds or thousands of peer reviews and recreations of the experiments, a consensus is reach on whether it is a plausible explanation for a phenomenon.
The current blame of CO2 on global warming are pushing us onto something much more dangers, i.e. the mercury filled lights replaced older incandescent lights, some guys suggest capture the CO2 in air and store them in cans..... There are way too many unanswered questions, and most of the global warming predictions failed so far (hocky stick anyone?).

I agree that there are a lot of unanswered questions and far-fetched ideas about climate change, but most of it is attributable to the unchartered territory we are entering and the uncertainty of how to deal with it.

We should be responsible to our own environment, but for me, we should focus more on not let industries pollute us with heavy metals, water sources, nuclear waste, which are very hard to reverse, and less on CO2. It is much easier to get a global cooling than warming, as the big volcano erupt in the 1800s put the earth into a small ice age with all that CO2.

CO2 causes the earths temperature to rise and that is incontrovertible (if you have any faith in science at all). The small ice age that occurred in Europe was a localized weather pattern not a global climate change. Volcanoes tend to cause cooling trends in the climate because their emissions block sun light not because of the CO2 they release.

 

[ViaCrucis]

The issue is human directed climate change. To call it "global warming" is perhaps inadequate, though we have seen an escalated warming trend since the industrial revolution--it has been rapid.

That doesn't mean it's going to be 100 degrees F in mid-winter North Dakota. It means that the average temperature has gone up--and continues to go up--resulting in polar ice melts that results in the mass introduction of fresh water into the ocean which can have unpredictable long term effects on ocean currents.

It is entirely plausible that left unchecked it could disrupt major currents that keep much of the world at a more temperate climate, such as the Gulf Stream. That would result in major cooling, rather than warming.

The point is that our industry has--and is--introducing an element that is creating a noticeable, observable, recordable change on global climate. And yes, left unchecked the result could be catastrophic. Catastrophic doesn't mean scenarios like "Water World" or "Day after Tomorrow" which are absurd; but catastrophic nonetheless.

Denying this is stupid.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ebia]

CO2 causes the earths temperature to rise and that is incontrovertible (if you have any faith in science at all). The small ice age that occurred in Europe was a localized weather pattern not a global climate change. Volcanoes tend to cause cooling trends in the climate because their emissions block sun light not because of the CO2 they release.

I think he was suggesting that we could deal with global warming caused by CO2 by throwing a lot of other crap in the air to produce a volcanic fallout type cooling.

Which is really scary if it is what he meant.