Clean and unclean food

[Rik Brooks]

DISCLAIMER:
I am returning to the church after decades outside. I am NOT trying to argue but really do want to understand. This question is sincere.

Leviticus 11 tells us that there are quite a few animals that we should not only not eat but shouldn't even TOUCH. Some I think we can touch but not eat.

Camels, rabbits, and pork, catfish (no scales), a whole bunch of stuff that I wouldn't touch like vultures, etc.

But then I Timothy 4:3 says that there are liars in the end times that will tell us among other things, that there are foods that we shouldn't eat. That everything that God created is good and we should give thanks for it. It's made acceptable by the Word of God and prayer.

The notes in my study Bible say that many will come trying to convince us that they and their religion is holy by showing us their iron self will and how stringent their rules are, surely they are the 'true' religion.

OK, I can't figure out how these references can coincide.

Rik the Seeker

 

[1watchman]

One should not confuse the Church in this Age called administration of Grace, with the OT religion of Israel with rules and ceremonies to show obedience to God. We have been given a new life in Christ (not about Christ as in the ceremonies of Israel). The Church is the Bride of Christ, which is a spiritual life apart from works. Today, Israelites must trust their Messiah (which they mostly do not), so they have no sacrifice for sin ---since their animal offerings were done away. Look to the NT Bible for Christian life, and read in the OT to learn that which pointed forward to Christ. Look up always!

 

[Job8]

DISCLAIMER:
I am returning to the church after decades outside. I am NOT trying to argue but really do want to understand.

Here's what you need to understand (this material is my own study using the KJV):
There are Messianic Jews today (Jews who have believed on the Lord Jesus Christ) who insist on observing the dietary laws given in the Torah (Law of Moses). One of these groups is Voice in the Wilderness, and they discuss Yeshua and Kashrut (Jesus and Jewish Dietary Laws), and the word kosher comes from kashrut. They conclude that they must observe these laws because they are Messianic Jews. http://voice-wilderness.com/yeshua-and-kashrut-jewish-dietary-laws/

However, according to the New Testament, God does not distinguish between Jew and Gentile within the Body of Christ (the Church) so promoting such distinctions is already contrary to the spirit of the NT (1 Cor 12:12-27; Gal 3:21-29). Christians are not allowed to make (or set up) these distinctions either. Therefore Christians (whether Jews or Gentiles) need to be very clear as to whether these dietary laws apply to them or not. We have both the Old and the New Testaments to teach us what Christ expects today. It is one thing to have some dietary reservations, and another thing to claim Torah observance as the basis of dietary restrictions.

1. Dietary restrictions before the Fall:
A. The plant kingdom created and sustained by a mist
And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so. And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good... These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens, And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground. But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.(Gen 1:11-12; 2:4-6)
B. Plants as food for all creatures
So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat [food]. And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat [food]: and it was so. (Gen 1:27-30).
C. A special orchard (“garden”) for man with one restriction
And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed. And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil. And a river went out of Eden to water the garden; and from thence it was parted, and became into four heads... And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it. And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. (Gen 2:8-17)

2. Dietary restrictions after the Fall
A. All creatures preserved and brought out of Noah’s Ark
And God spake unto Noah, saying, Go forth of the ark, thou, and thy wife, and thy sons, and thy sons' wives with thee. Bring forth with thee every living thing that is with thee, of all flesh, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth; that they may breed abundantly in the earth, and be fruitful, and multiply upon the earth. (Gen 8:15-17)

B. All creatures given as food for man but blood consumption forbidden
And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth. And the fear of you and the dread of you shall be upon every beast of the earth, and upon every fowl of the air, upon all that moveth uponthe earth, and upon all the fishes of the sea; into your hand are they delivered. Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things. But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat. (Gen 9:1-4).

3. Dietary restrictions for Israel under the Old Covenant
(Lev 11:1-47; Deut 14:1-21)
And the LORD spake unto Moses and to Aaron, saying unto them, Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, These are the beasts which ye shall eat among all the beasts that are on the earth.
ANIMALS ALLOWED: CATTLE, SHEEP, GOATS
Whatsoever parteth the hoof, and is cloven footed, and cheweth the cud, among the beasts, that shall ye eat.
ANIMALS DISALLOWED: CAMEL, CONEY, HARE, SWINE
Nevertheless these shall ye not eat of them that chew the cud, or of them that divide the hoof: as the camel, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you. And the coney, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you. And the hare, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you. And the swine, though he divide the hoof, and be clovenfooted, yet he cheweth not the cud; he is unclean to you. Of their flesh shall ye not eat, and their carcase shall ye not touch; they are unclean to you.
MARINE CREATURES ALLOWED
These shall ye eat of all that are in the waters: whatsoever hath fins and scales in the waters, in the seas, and in the rivers, them shall ye eat.
MARINE CREATURES DISALLOWED
And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination unto you: They shall be even an abomination unto you; ye shall not eat of their flesh, but ye shall have their carcases in abomination. Whatsoever hath no fins nor scales in the waters, that shall be an abomination unto you.
CARRION BIRDS DISALLOWED
And these are they which ye shall have in abomination among the fowls; they shall not be eaten, they are an abomination: the eagle, and the ossifrage, and the ospray, And the vulture, and the kite after his kind; Every raven after his kind; And the owl, and the night hawk, and the cuckow, and the hawk after his kind, And the little owl, and the cormorant, and the great owl, And the swan, and the pelican, and the gier eagle, And the stork, the heron after her kind, and the lapwing, and the bat. All fowls that creep, going upon all four, shall be an abomination unto you.
OTHER BIRDS ALLOWED
Yet these may ye eat of every flying creeping thing that goeth upon all four, which have legs above their feet, to leap withal upon the earth;
LOCUSTS ALLOWED
Even these of them ye may eat; the locust after his kind, and the bald locust after his kind, and the beetle after his kind, and the grasshopper after his kind.
ALL OTHER FLYING CREATURES DISALLOWED
But all other flying creeping things, which have four feet, shall be an abomination unto you.
CREEPING THINGS DISALLOWED
These also shall be unclean unto you among the creeping things that creep upon the earth; the weasel, and the mouse, and the tortoise after his kind, And the ferret, and the chameleon, and the lizard, and the snail, and the mole. These are unclean to you among all that creep: whosoever doth touch them, when they be dead, shall be unclean until the even. For I am the LORD your God: ye shall therefore sanctify yourselves, and ye shall be holy; for I am holy: neither shall ye defile yourselves with any manner of creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. For I am the LORD that bringeth you up out of the land of Egypt, to be your God: ye shall therefore be holy, for I am holy. This is the law of the beasts, and of the fowl, and of every living creature that moveth in the waters, and of every creature that creepeth upon the earth: To make a difference between the unclean and the clean, and between the beast that may be eaten and the beast that may not be eaten.

4. Christ’s teaching on defilement by meats
Although the issue was the ritual washing of hands and utensils (“the tradition of the elders”) the Lord used this opportunity to teach that meats did not spiritually defile men, but the sinful thoughts that came from within defiled men (Mark 7:18-23): And he saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, it cannot defile him; Because it entereth not into his heart, but into the belly, and goeth out into the draught, purging all meats? And he said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man. For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.

5. The New Covenant (Testament) has nullified the Old Covenant
Gifts, sacrifices, meats, drinks, divers washings, and carnal ordinances were only valid “until the time of reformation”, which was with the shed blood of Christ (Heb 9:8-15): The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing: Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience; Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation. But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building; Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us. For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh: How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

6. All meats may now be eaten freely with prayer and thanksgiving
Within the teaching of the New Testament, forbidding to eat certain meats is a doctrine of devils (1 Tim 4:1-6): Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth. For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving: For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer. If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith and of good doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained.

7. The consumption of blood is still forbidden to Christians
The question of whether the Law of Moses should still apply to Christians came up very early (52 AD), and was resolved by the teaching of the Holy Spirit to the apostles and elders in Jerusalem. Christians are forbidden to consume blood and animals which have been strangled, since the blood would still remain within the animals. Christians are also forbidden to eat meat sacrifices to idols (see the entire chapter of Acts 15, of which only verses 25-29 are quoted): Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment: It seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, Men that have hazarded their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. We have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who shall also tell you the same things by mouth. For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things; That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.

8. Meats sold in the marketplace may be eaten freely
Because meats sacrificed to idols were also then being sold in the marketplace (“shambles” KJV), what was the Christian to do? Refrain from asking questions and eat what was offered. On the other hand if your pagan host told you that the meat had been offered to idols, then the Christian was to abstain “for conscience sake” (1 Cor 10:25-29): If any of them that believe not bid you to a feast, and ye be disposed to go; whatsoever is set before you, eat, asking no question for conscience sake. But if any man say unto you, This is offered in sacrifice unto idols, eat not for his sake that shewed it, and for conscience sake: for the earthis the Lord's, and the fulness thereof: Conscience, I say, not thine own, but of the other: for why is my liberty judged of another man's conscience?

9. Christians wanting to follow dietary restrictions should be allowed to do so
According to Scripture, scrupulosity about diet is a sign of weakness “in the faith” (which is not to be judged), and those who wish to be vegetarians or to avoid certain meats should be free to do so (without judging those who have no such qualms). If we know that someone practices dietary restrictions, we should respect that and not offer pork instead of lamb. That is what we find in Romans 14:1-23 (of which verses 1-4 are quoted): Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations. For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs. Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him. Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

 

[Rik Brooks]

One should not confuse the Church in this Age called administration of Grace, with the OT religion of Israel with rules and ceremonies to show obedience to God. We have been given a new life in Christ (not about Christ as in the ceremonies of Israel). The Church is the Bride of Christ, which is a spiritual life apart from works. Today, Israelites must trust their Messiah (which they mostly do not), so they have no sacrifice for sin ---since their animal offerings were done away. Look to the NT Bible for Christian life, and read in the OT to learn that which pointed forward to Christ. Look up always!

I can't thank you enough. This completely clears this up. It raises other questions but I need time to think and pray on them before I ask them.

 

[ihavefoundgod951]

You can't be defiled by what you put in your mouth, it's what comes out of your mouth that defiled you (said Jesus)

(Also I refer you to acts 15 the council of Jerusalem)

 

[Amatorreginae]

The first reference to clean and unclean creatures is in Genesis regarding the creatures that Noah took on board the Ark. God made a distinction between them, and this before the Torah was instituted. In Moses' day the codified Law was given regarding the eating of meat, and when it was I don't think that God was being awkward with his people, but rather he was looking out for their health. Christ did say that man wasn't contaminated by what he put into his mouth, but he wouldn't have put a tapeworm into his own or something yet worse, even if there had been no Law. He's not even discussing food. Romans ch. 14 is often used as an argument that everything and anything may be eaten, but the talk is about a man's eating vegetables rather than meat. It's likely that St Paul is referring to an ascetic who thought it better to eat veg. St Peter is often dragged into the debate. When he saw various beasties being let down in a sheet, he was being admonished not to look down on non-Jews, whom, we are told by commentators, were likened to animals. In my own view, I think we are better off being like Adam, who didn't eat meat. Kashrut comes a close second to vegetarianism.

 

[ihavefoundgod951]

I asked this question when I was a new baby christian, I've since learned all food was declared clean (acts 15)

Tho science has proved there are health benefits to not eating those so called unclean foods (any animal that doesn't chew the cud)


Personally I think bacon sandwiches taste gorgeous

 

[Radrook]

Here are some relevant thoughts:

The original diet for mankind did not include meat. Whether eating meat had illegally been practiced prior to the flood is not stated in the OT. However, the book of Enoch does mention the Nephilim eating humans. So if true, perhaps it provoked humans imitate via eating animals prior to the Flood.

After the flood God gave permission to eat meat. However the blood was to be drained from the meat. Otherwise it was considered unfit to eat. Some Christians believe that the Noachian Covenant was not annulled after Jesus instituted the New Covenant and that we are therefore under obligation to refrain from eating blood.

BTW
I wrote a sci fi space opera where creatures resembling pigs reflected human qualities of reasoning and some had even been assigned to protect planets where no one had ever sinned when I suddenly remembered that swine are classified as unclean animals-and might not be appropriately represented as having Godly personality traits. I had to discard the manuscript after finishing the novel.

 

[ihavefoundgod951]

Here are some relevant thoughts:

The original diet for mankind did not include meat. Whether eating meat had illegally been practiced prior to the flood is not stated in the OT. However, the book of Enoch does mention the Nephilim eating humans. So if true, perhaps it provoked humans imitate via eating animals prior to the Flood.

After the flood God gave permission to eat meat. However the blood was to be drained from the meat. Otherwise it was considered unfit to eat. Some Christians believe that the Noachian Covenant was not annulled after Jesus instituted the New Covenant and that we are therefore under obligation to refrain from eating blood.

BTW
I wrote a sci fi space opera where creatures resembling pigs reflected human qualities of reasoning and some had even been assigned to protect planets where no one had ever sinned when I suddenly remembered that swine are classified as unclean animals-and might not be appropriately represented as having Godly personality traits. I had to discard the manuscript after finishing the novel.

Why didn't you just change the animal from a pig to a cow or some other kind of animal?

 

[mmksparbud]

For me, it boils down to what is best for your health---putting "religion" aside---think health, not following a churches teaching. God knows what our bodies and our minds need. Diet does affect your emotions, your ability to think clearly, how you physically feel. Eat the wrong thing and you will feel it---maybe not so much when you're young, but on down the road, we start paying for it. Everyone is different. For some, they have allergies to contend with, medical problems to work around. Some people can't even touch asparagus--my husband--his mouth and tongue blister just eating something that has touched the asparagus on the same plate. Some things will not be made clear until much later in life--you maybe ok for 40 years and all of a sudden you end in a horrible health crisis and one of the first things that is done is the dr will check your eating habits--a good dr anyway--and will recommend eliminating some things, or adding some things. Good health for a dialysis patient will mean a diet very different from the average person. A normal "healthy" diet would kill them. For some, one of the best things is beans---for others, one bean will give them much discomfort. One friend almost had to go to emergency room after eating Adzuki brans, which are considered just about "hypoallergenic"--cause the least amount of trouble for people---bloated up like a balloon. Allergies and food sensitivities need to be addressed.
As for biblical grounds---obviously, being SDA, I do the clean thing---my husband is not SDA, but he doesn't feel good eating pork, or shellfish like he did before he married me. I don't buy them, or prepare them, that was ironed out years ago. He was ok with that and if he wanted something, he'd go out and get it and cook it himself or order it at a restaurant if we went out. But he noticed that not eating them he did not feel deprived, but when he did eat them he just plain felt lousy. So he very willingly stays away from them. God designed us, he made us to eat in a certain way, nature is not the same today as it was in Eden or even after the flood. He wants us to not only live as long as possible, but to feel good and enjoy life. Eating as He instructed is not a matter of following old laws that were done away with, it's just plain what is healthier and that has really been proven by many studies. God did not place those instructions on people as a punishment of some sort, but to keep them healthy in order for them to avoid the health pitfalls of the surrounding people
Exo_15:26 And said, If thou wilt diligently hearken to the voice of the LORD thy God, and wilt do that which is right in his sight, and wilt give ear to his commandments, and keep all his statutes, I will put none of these diseases upon thee, which I have brought upon the Egyptians: for I am the LORD that healeth thee.
It's like the old saying----when you get a car, follow the manufacturers instruction on it's upkeep.

 

[Steve Petersen]

Bear in mind, there are issues when taking a Hebrew concept or word over into Greek and then into English.

 

[Radrook]

Why didn't you just change the animal from a pig to a cow or some other kind of animal?

It did occur to me. But then I began to wonder whether God chose those appearances of animals because he considers them unworthy of ever reflecting his image. I was trying to convey the idea that God sees the heart and not the creature's outward appearance.

But such thoughts interfered with the sci fi way I wanted to convey it. Had all those issues surfaced at the start I would have avoided wasting my time. Why they didn't is beyond me.

In any case, I felt I had chosen a blatantly inappropriate animal in the potbellied pigs specifically because they are said to be unclean in the OT. That is the difficulty in being a writer and being a Christian. You have to watch every single thing you convey for fear of transgressing in some way.