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Clarification

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"What is unseen is eternal"
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Jesus in context of John 12:25 is predicting His own death and resurrection, likened to "a grain of wheat" which falls to the ground and "dies" before producing a "crop" (v. 24).

When Jesus was faced with a decision to love either His own life or His Father's command, He chose His Father's command. Jesus died (was "lifted up" on the cross, John 12:32) in obedience to the Father---and rose again to live eternally.

So too Jesus' followers, when faced with a choice to love their lives "in this world" or to love God must choose the latter. The fundamental issue is who is Lord, whom will one obey "when push comes to shove": Self or God--and idol, or God. The saying seems akin to Jesus' "deny yourself, take up your cross, and follow Me" language, which the disciple is to obey "daily."

One is going to lose one's life "in this world" sooner or later anyway (and the "world" may here be the evil system of sinful humanity as commonly in the Gospel of John). What would it profit if in this life one gained the whole world (in terms of power and material), but in the end lost one's soul at death (Mark 8:36 following v. 35 which is similar to John 12:25).

The disciple of Jesus must hate his/her own self-will, a will in opposition to God. Sometimes the disciple of Christ is called to be a martyr for Him, but always and daily the one who would follow Jesus must place Jesus first before self, dying to self-will. "Reckon yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus" (Rom. 6:11).
 
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Ace99

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This will take time it's perfectly normal, in the world. We are used to, even told to put our selves first, to think about ourselves. What do I want? What do I need? It is hard to think, that someone else comes first, that can take time to readjust. God knows your heart. Keep going. God bless
 
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1watchman

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Remember, life and blessing is not about reform and determining to be Godly, but by receiving the Lord Jesus into your heart and honoring Him that "...in all things He might have the preeminence". Salvation and blessings is all about relationship with the Savior --our Lord Jesus Christ: "...no man cometh unto the Father, but by Me" as Jesus said (John 14).
 
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lillivanilli

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As a new christian i am learning that you must put God first but i dont think im there completely yet. Any advice? Is this normal?

Of course it's normal. We are fallen humans, and we need God. It is our nature to put earthly needs ahead of God, and really it's impossible not to without Him. He would not have had to send Jesus to die for us if we could manage to put God first always and never sin.

Don't feel bad if you sometimes feel like you are failing in this respect - or any really. Just pray that He sends you his strength and mercy, ask forgiveness and know that it is granted. God loves you! I think this is sometimes easy to forget - the plain and simple truth that God loves us, and desires a relationship with us. Talk to God. He's listening. :clap:
 
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If sin was not common for the Christian, one would have to ask why the epistles in the New Testament to churches and individuals are so full of exhortations and warnings to be faithful to the commands of Jesus and guidance of the apostles.

There are warnings also against apostasy--falling away from the faith. Such warnings are more sharp and severe.

On the other hand, there is also good reason to hope in a pattern of righteous living as the Holy Spirit works in the believer ... not that one is ever perfect in this life ... hence the exhortations as above.
 
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Living in the Light

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Dear Uglytruth, I think it's best to watch out for too much literalism in your interpretations. I think what John is trying to say here is that being too much in love with a carnal world is not the way to go. I don't think he was saying that it is wrong to have a satisfying, enjoyable, loving life. Life of the Spirit is knowing how to detach from the lures of the physical world. We have a good example -- Jesus.
 
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Dear Uglytruth, I think it's best to watch out for too much literalism in your interpretations. I think what John is trying to say here is that being too much in love with a carnal world is not the way to go. I don't think he was saying that it is wrong to have a satisfying, enjoyable, loving life. Life of the Spirit is knowing how to detach from the lures of the physical world. We have a good example -- Jesus.

I think Living_in_the_Light has introduced a relevant and worthwhile correction, up to a point.

I am reminded of a ditty my mother used to recite to me when I was young: "Quaker meeting has begun. No more laughing, no more fun." And Puritans still have a reputation of shunning pleasure even if the reputation was not entirely earned.

I don't mean to pick on Quakers or Puritans (I grew up in once-Puritan Massachusetts not far from once-Quaker Pennsylvania), but to suggest that the idea has been around for a while that being a Christian requires asceticism--self-denial of pleasure and fun.

Of course there is a kind of half-truth in frowning on pleasure and fun, namely that the sins of the flesh (meaning sin nature) usually occur in intimate relationship with the flesh (meaning human body)--e.g., self-centered anger (feel the heat?) and sexual immorality. We usually sin with the body.

But the human body itself is good. God created it. The physical world is good. God created it and called it good (if now also cursed). And God as a good God made many pleasures in this world for our enjoyment and His glory.

For the Christian to die to self, to hate the self in the John 12:25 sense, may indeed mean denying oneself a certain pleasure or fun, but not because enjoying many pleasures is necessarily wrong.

Rather, our sin nature misuses and abuses the thing from which one might derive pleasure. Then there are human pleasures which are so twisted as to be evil themselves, such as enjoying another's suffering--but I assume that is not the "garden variety" sort of pleasure.

More commonly I think, we can become so caught up in pleasures and fun--laughing with friends, watching an engaging media program, practicing in a hobby, listening to music, whatever--that we neglect duty or the will of God. Or we can use pleasure to indulge the sinful nature (e.g., gluttony).

For example--an perhaps unexpectedly--we can become ascetics (deniers of one's own pleasure) in order to feel pride at being spiritual or righteous. Take the Pharisees in the Gospels (who fasted two days a week, for example).

And Paul tells the church at Colossae that there are religious practices which have an appearance of asceticism and wisdom, but they "are of no value in stopping the indulgence of the flesh [or sinful nature]" (2:23).

Therefore for the Christian "hating one's life in this world" (again John 12:25) does not mean denying all sense of pleasure, though it may mean curbing pleasure where duty demands. Such denial of the self and "hating self," however, does mean dying with Christ to that self which is contrary to God while living by faith through Christ in righteousness (I think of Galatians 2:20 for example, or again Romans 6).

And living by faith through Christ can mean enjoying certain pleasures (sex with a spouse, tasty food, music, socializing, a cooling fan or warming furnace, and so on) and thanking God for it. And have you ever enjoyed God Himself?

Using the body and God's physical world as God wants us to may (will) involve both pain and pleasure. Loving God and one's neighbor is key throughout. Those who have eternal life are on a path of holiness throughout because God in Christ is conforming one into His image, particularly as one obeys Christ.
 
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asiyreh

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The world is like an amusement park. Thrills, flashy lights, loud noise. As you grow in Christ you begin to realize that jumping onto these flashy rides take you further than you want to go and make you pay more than you ever wanted to spend.

As Christ increases your wisdom from within, you start to realize something that sounds appealing now, can and very coincidentally always seems to take you down a path you never wished to travel.

Take King David for example. He spots this foxy lady from his balcony. Turns out she's married. The alarm bells are probably ringing at this point but he decides to continue and sleeps with her.

The story ends with Bathsheba getting pregnant and David organizing the death of her husband.

So what started with what he thought was going to be a quick little sneaky one, ended up creating a whole nightmare for him. It all ends in tears.

In my experience there's no such thing as coincidence, with sin the result always seems to be the same, a whole mountain of outcomes you don't really want to deal with... Nightmare...

When Christs tells you to hate the world, he means learn to see the flashy lights for what they are. Further than you want to go and more than you want to spend.
 
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PureDose

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I was reading the book of john and came across this passage.
''the man who loves his life will lose it while the man who hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life''.

It sounds almost like your supposed to hate your life to me.


Any help?

Jesus literally says you have to hate your life to follow him.

Luke 14:25-27

New International Version (NIV)

The Cost of Being a Disciple

25 Large crowds were traveling with Jesus, and turning to them he said: 26 “If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters—yes, even their own life—such a person cannot be my disciple. 27 And whoever does not carry their cross and follow me cannot be my disciple.

John 12:24-26

New International Version (NIV)

24 Very truly I tell you, unless a kernel of wheat falls to the ground and dies, it remains only a single seed. But if it dies, it produces many seeds. 25 Anyone who loves their life will lose it, while anyone who hates their life in this world will keep it for eternal life. 26 Whoever serves me must follow me; and where I am, my servant also will be. My Father will honor the one who serves me.

Obviously, this is a different manner of hate then what John is talking about here:

1 John 3:14-16

New International Version (NIV)

14 We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love each other. Anyone who does not love remains in death. 15 Anyone who hates a brother or sister is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life residing in him.
16 This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers and sisters.



I do not think that what Jesus is saying is to "hate", but rather that when you do love God and the mission or purpose God gives you that then you hate anything else.

It then is like a job, one someone really, really loves, and everything else is beneath that job.

It strikes me as being more words of confirmation when someone is in that state, or as words of warning when one is not.

Jesus spoke of three things that can choke out the word: desire and worry in this world and of this world, and demons.

When we have to deal with the world, we have to deal with desires and worries, and that is a difficult and painful - even hateful balance - because to actually accomplish anything we have to be able to set desires and worries aside and live by faith in our work and our family life.

"The Lord will provide" as opposed to "our strength and mind will provide without any help from God".
 
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